Corner Entry And Sr's

[doog]

Came on here to bounce an issue about and found

 

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=1774

 

With some of what I'm experiencing, so here goes :-)

 

I am in the UK have done level 4 several times and slowly making improvements, I am now at the point I know (mostly) when I am making mistakes and what they do.

 

I recently was talking to a coach who turned up at a track day I was on and realised I was spending to much attention on my TP and not enough on my apex. That and I was looking for an exact TP and ones that's way to small, I have realised that stops me raising the entry speed as i am often hunting for the TP before quickly looking at the Apex and turning.

 

So I spend a day on track and started making sure I hit every apex taking my attention away from the TP, that was no problem and I quickly had apex's down (ish). Sitting down with paper and a pen I realised I actually had the majority of TP down as well and without having to hunt for them. The corners felt more relaxed apart from two, these are blind corners where I you are still on the throttle before seeing the corner.

 

Now when I am in the corner I am happy and can match most on speed, on the exit I am on the throttle early its just corner entry I have an issue with.

 

I know my Turn point and am looking at the Apex with the TP still in my vision, I am turning where I want and pointing to the Apex.

 

However I find I am still over braking / coming off the throttle too much. Following a friend I would say the entry speed is a couple miles an hour to slow. The faster the corner the worse it gets, also meaning I am getting hard on the throttle to try and make up for the speed.

 

So I know where I am going wrong , I know where I should be looking and have reference points (mostly).

 

In the corner I am happy, exiting the corner I am happy but no matter what I do I cant convince my brain to 'take the risk' and go in faster.

 

Any thoughts on overcoming this barrier ?

 

 

cheers

 

doog

[BLSJDS]

Are you getting the bike turned quickly? Perhaps an even quicker turn would help. I haven't had much of an opportunity to experiment with this on the track, but a quicker "flick" of the bike (so to speak) would help you stay on your line while carrying more speed into the turn.

 

I was hoping to practice this last weekend, but my trackday was cancelled. I was planning to initially approach with the same speed, but turn the bike quicker to see how that impacted my line, apex, etc. Then I was hoping to add a few MPH to compliment the quick turn, getting back on line. Unfortunately, this isn't something that can be practiced on the street, so I'll have to wait until next time.

[Vaidas]

Now when I am in the corner I am happy and can match most on speed, on the exit I am on the throttle early its just corner entry I have an issue with.

 

I know my Turn point and am looking at the Apex with the TP still in my vision, I am turning where I want and pointing to the Apex.

 

However I find I am still over braking / coming off the throttle too much. Following a friend I would say the entry speed is a couple miles an hour to slow. The faster the corner the worse it gets, also meaning I am getting hard on the throttle to try and make up for the speed.

 

So I know where I am going wrong , I know where I should be looking and have reference points (mostly).

 

In the corner I am happy, exiting the corner I am happy but no matter what I do I cant convince my brain to 'take the risk' and go in faster.

 

Any thoughts on overcoming this barrier ?

 

 

cheers

 

doog

 

Hello dogg,

that sounds like exactly the same problem I used to be having recently and still having to some extent (well, at least I still think I can be much faster mid-corner).

 

Here is the process of thinking that allowed me to increase my corner entry speed a little bit: I know I am too slow into the corner when I am not using the available lean angle, I feel the bike is too upright when finished turning and sometimes get overtaken mid-corner on the outside. To approach the corner faster I have two choices: brake later or brake less.

 

Braking latter seems like a scary option to me, because that's why over-brake in the first place - I am scared I will not slow down enough before the turn. The latter choice at first doesn't seem attractive either, but there's clearly some space in the this maneuver - I'm ending up too slow into the corner after all.

 

So what I try to do is, I start braking as usual, but in the final stages of braking, just before the turn in, I decrease the braking force very slightly to keep more momentum into the corner. If I still think it's too fast, I can always add more pressure to the brake lever, but if I feel reasonably comfortable I'm gonna make the corner I let off the brakes and turn in. Once I get accustomed to getting the increased entry speed right, I usually realize there was room for moving the braking point a little further (after all there's not much reason in braking and then coasting to the corner off-gas for 20 meters).

 

That's what works for me, but don't take my words for granted, I am no expert and will eagerly await responses on this topic from the cornering gurus . Cheers.

[Cobie Fair]

Hi Doog,

 

Have you tried the no brakes exercise in that turn (or turns like that) to give you lots of time to set the speed correctly?

 

There are a few things that come to mind, but do you have the Soft Science book? If so, have a look at the section starting on page 19 (bottom).

 

CF

[Jaybird180]

Hi Doog,

 

Have you tried the no brakes exercise in that turn (or turns like that) to give you lots of time to set the speed correctly?

 

 

CF

Was thinking the same thing.

Welcome back, Cobie (LOL)

[636rider]

Came on here to bounce an issue about and found

 

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=1774

 

With some of what I'm experiencing, so here goes :-)

 

I am in the UK have done level 4 several times and slowly making improvements, I am now at the point I know (mostly) when I am making mistakes and what they do.

 

I recently was talking to a coach who turned up at a track day I was on and realised I was spending to much attention on my TP and not enough on my apex. That and I was looking for an exact TP and ones that's way to small, I have realised that stops me raising the entry speed as i am often hunting for the TP before quickly looking at the Apex and turning.

 

So I spend a day on track and started making sure I hit every apex taking my attention away from the TP, that was no problem and I quickly had apex's down (ish). Sitting down with paper and a pen I realised I actually had the majority of TP down as well and without having to hunt for them. The corners felt more relaxed apart from two, these are blind corners where I you are still on the throttle before seeing the corner.

 

Now when I am in the corner I am happy and can match most on speed, on the exit I am on the throttle early its just corner entry I have an issue with.

 

I know my Turn point and am looking at the Apex with the TP still in my vision, I am turning where I want and pointing to the Apex.

 

However I find I am still over braking / coming off the throttle too much. Following a friend I would say the entry speed is a couple miles an hour to slow. The faster the corner the worse it gets, also meaning I am getting hard on the throttle to try and make up for the speed.

 

So I know where I am going wrong , I know where I should be looking and have reference points (mostly).

 

In the corner I am happy, exiting the corner I am happy but no matter what I do I cant convince my brain to 'take the risk' and go in faster.

 

Any thoughts on overcoming this barrier ?

 

 

cheers

 

doog

I agree with BLSJDS that quick turn sure will help, but relax and do not push yourself to ground.

Check

at 04:20 time, if we can lean sharp to correct angle fast like the coach. It will help a lot.

Quick turn is a level 1 drill, but it is not until much much later, at level 3 that I can feel able to do better.

If you do not have problem with quick turn, may be you are able to ride faster but only do not trust your own ability.

[doog]

Thanks for the replies nice to see im not the only one to suffer this :-). Cobie I have the soft science book and will read, I haven't tried the no brakes drill as often feel I will get hit from behind .

 

Maybe I should book into the novice group on a trackday and just slow it all down a little, my problem always seems to be going from the 70 % back to a 100 % and fallen beck into the same mistakes (habits).

 

Interestingly thinking over this barrier I realised I almost overcame it in 2006 after doing level 2, then had a big off which took me a long time to get over. Like I say damn brain

 

doog

[Cobie Fair]

Doog--getting the transition from 70-100% can really be the key. We often get that a rider does well but makes too big a jump from the speed they can do it, to the speed they are shooting for, and miss the in between steps. Takes some discipline, sometimes a coach to get it pointed out what the rider is doing.

 

If I'm going to roll off early, I make it gradual and real obvious, think it signals the guys behind pretty clearly.

 

CF