Body Position

[jclover]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. My name is John and I'm from Argentina. I completed levels 1 and 2 last october at Willow Springs. It was great but i had not been back to any kind of track until this weekend when I went to a local track here in Argentina with my R6 to see what I could remember. After going round a few times, i started practicing what i remembered and was feeling comfortable. I had lots of fun!. Anyway, the aim of this post is to have your opinions on my body position. I don´t seem to be even close to put my knee down and wanted to hear what you think . I'm not very tall and I think that might be a factor. At least on this trackday there was nobody trustworthy enough to be asking about my riding technique so I thought maybe here at the CSS forum i could find some help until I go up north to the US again! Here are the photos (they are all from the same angle... they are the only ones I have )

 

Thanks in advance for any kind of imput and all opinions are welcome!

 

John

[jclover]

Sorry, the first images are HUGE!. Here I post some normal ones.

 

John

 

 

[Steve Rutter]

Knee down will come with confidence and practice, don't make it a goal, more of a by-product of going faster. Your position looks good to me, your head is down low and looking through the turn and the rest of your body is going with the bike.

 

Concentrate on nailing your turn points, apexes and exit points and you'll find yourself getting faster naturally, with extra speed will come more lean angle and eventually it will touch down. It's when you set out just to go faster that your vision will narrow and you'll start to ride more ragged.

[jan]

I'm no expert at all, but it looks like you just need some extra corner speed. This may sound like I'm advising you to be a jerk on the road, but why don't you look for a deserted roundabout? It's a really good place to see where the limits are because you have a constant turn rate and you can slowely keep on adding speed until you finally put that knee down. This can usually be done at very low speeds so in case you do drop the bike, it won't be the end of the world. Once you get your knee down, you'll see that you still have room for more lean angle until your tires start drifting a bit. If you notice that is happening, you know you're really on the limit. If you slowly speed up, you don't really take any risks of suddenly smacking down against the pavement.

Do make sure the pavement is clean and your tires are up to temperature. Slowely build up and take it step by step.

 

At first I was scared to go so deep. It seemed impossible to me that I could lean over so much without losing grip but then again, I saw it happening right in front of me, see it every month in my usual magazines and on TV. Why would others have the grip and not me? I just said "screw you" to my fear and started following them around. After the first 2 warmup laps, my footpegs and my knees were dragging on the tarmac through every turn. The slow ones are easiest to start with I think, but even in the same session I was doing at the same through 150kph turns. It really does look fast though when your head is about a foot or 2 above the tarmac but if the bike feels comfy and stable, it's nothing to be worried about, it's fun!! :-)

I took a very big step in 1 session by just disregarding my fear for corner speed and telling myself that if others can do it, so can you.

 

To me, the problem with fear is that it makes you do things that you otherwise wouldn't do. Wrong position on the bike, wrong viewing technique etc. You have to be able to put yourself over it, be relaxed and keep doing what you do right. Just be careful that once you're getting the hang of it, you're not getting over-confident and think there are no limits at all ;-) The limits are VERY far, but they do exist.

[jclover]

Steve: Thanks for the advice. Next time i will concentrate more on my turn points, apexes and exits. I was not paying special atention to them that day because i was all excited about going out on track but i think that is the way to go. I will surely be more concentrated on those points next time. Thanks for your opinion

 

Jan: I think corner speed could be a factor as you said. I was new to the track and was learning it for the first time and maybe not confident enough to go in too fast so i usually went into the corners at relatively low speeds. Next time i'll practice what Steve suggested and maybe that may help me get my corner speed up a bit. Thanks for the imput.

 

John

[Crash106]

JClover. Your body position looks pretty comfortable to me. Of course, I'm not a huge fan of hanging off, but your weight is inside the turn, your seat is not too far off the motorcycle's seat, your weight is forward and toward the inside grips with your eyes up. That's all very good.

 

Personally, I think vision is much more important than body position. I've been seeing more racers using an almost upright position in the slower parts of the track and only REALLY tucking in for fast straights and tight corners. It could have been a fluke on those tracks I was watching, but I do think you see more when you are more upright.

 

So, for what it's worth, I like that you are using your upper body well without loosing your grip with your lower body, and also that your eyes are up. Relax and connect the dots. It looks like a good start to me.

[khp]

John,

 

On top of crash's comments, the only thing that triggers for me is that you look like you are leading with your inside shoulder. That is, you're twisting around the tank instead of moving your hips perpendicular to the tank/bike axis.

 

Vision comes first IMHO, so focus there first and only then that is fixed, you can start fretting about your BP.

 

Cheers, Kai

[Jasonzilla]

It's also hard to judge some things for correctness because of the one view we're getting in all three pics. If you have any side views, it would be appreciated.

 

I'm completely with Kai. I think your vision is a bigger issue. You can't worry about BP if you can't see where you're going. Getting your vision up and out will slow things down and give you the confidence to start leaning farther. Pic #3 seems like you're looking almost straight down. I don't know what's coming next on the track, but you're on pace to hit your apex. You should be looking farther down the track.

 

With leaning, you need to get used to the change in forces you'll be facing as you lean farther over. With almost anything, if your body experiences something long enough it will adapt to it. After a while it will just take a session or two to get into a full lean. Then it will be nothing more than an after-thought.

 

With the knee down, it's still awesome knowing I can, but I can judge my lean angle pretty well (I've been riding the same type of bike as long as I've been doing track) and actually try not to drag my knee. The phases I've gone through of getting excited about dragging things is, obviously, dragging my knee, being able to ride without dragging my knee so much, dragging my hand, being able to take SIX CORNERS in succession of reaching my limit of max lean and having my knee pressed into the pavement (and a slight scrape of the peg on a couple of those corners for validation of max lean). THAT was massive. There are riders on this forum that can do laps of this, but just 6 corners for me was a massive achievement. It was near perfection and I want more of it. You'll get there, just focus on technique and when you get farther over, you'll find comfort in knowing you're doing it safely (read correctly).

[fossilfuel]

What are the tires you are on. They don't look like they have a good track profile? Just curious...You look pretty good to me. Maybe get the ball of your inside foot pivoting on the peg and aim it and open your leg more into the turn....

 

I was also looking at your finger position on the brake lever. I like my hands to be a little farther down on the lever so I get more pull or leverage....later

[jclover]

Thanks everyone for your answers, they are really useful. I will surely focus on my vision next time out. I'll focus more on what i've learnt as css instead of letting my emotions get hold of me. Thanks a lot again for your comments, they are much apreciated.

 

John

 

Ah... Fossil, my tires are the same as the ones that came on my bike when new. They are Bridgestone Battlax BT061r 120/70 and 180/55

[teg]

hello

ditto with above going by what can see in the pics - body looks pretty good . add the corner speed slowly and keep the visual drills on track and kneeing will come , far too many people concentrate on just kneeing and that becomes an end in itself and can stop your progress .

i,m a shorty too and i think it will take more angle for you too deck out than others so don,t worry too much , all best .

[Dark Suzuki]

Hey mate, In pic number 2 i think you might be leaning off too far. one thing i really noticed in level 3 is that if you dont lean off as far, this allows your inside knee to pop out more. the instructor we had was showing us this and you can actually gain an extra couple of inches with your knee if your body is not as far out. plus i agree with khp, it seems like your twisting around the tank instead of moving perpendicular to it.

 

so my suggestions are: not so far off, get further back so you can grip the tank with your knees and move perpendicular to the tank - not around it.

 

But as was mentioned before some side views would be good.

 

just my 2c

[fossilfuel]

Beeny Solis

Kyle Wyman

Kyle Wyman

Garrett Gerloff

Elena Meyers

 

Young riders who have won AMA or WERA races. Good body position.

[jclover]

Guys, thanks again for your imput. It is much appreciated.

 

John