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I Have A Stupid Question About Turns


blueyzfr6
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Say this is your turn do you put more force on the inside or outside peg. I had 1 person say inside and another say outside, and why

 

Herrin_Action.01.jpg

 

I got TOTW2 and that's how I took it. Put pressure on your outside knee into the tank. Also put pressure on the outside peg, like your tryin to stand the bike up. I just found the wording confusing. If you put pressure on the inside peg, wouldn't the center of gravity be even lower???

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Based on the picture, you probably would apply a little extra pressure to the outside peg to help lock on the tank with your outside knee. How much pressure you may need will vary depending on your build and the shape of the bike/tank. Otherwise, I don't believe there's any reason to apply "more force" to either peg.

 

Some racers assert you can steer the bike by putting pressure on the pegs. Keith developed the no-BS bike and effectively disproved this notion.

 

Simply putting pressure on the inside peg will not affect your center of gravity; neither would putting pressure on the outside peg. To lower CoG you have to shift a portion of mass lower and/or to the inside. Just pushing on a peg won't do that.

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...Simply putting pressure on the inside peg will not affect your center of gravity; neither would putting pressure on the outside peg. To lower CoG you have to shift a portion of mass lower and/or to the inside. Just pushing on a peg won't do that.

 

Precisely correct. Perhaps it's easier to understand if you call it "Center of Mass" instead of Center of Gravity. Technically it's you moving mass to a different position and the subsequent change in the earths reaction that we're dissecting here.

 

As far as your bike is concerned the tires feel the same normal force regardless of where you are applying it on the bike. The only thing adding pressure to a peg *might* do is create an ever-so-slight moment on the tire since the pressure would be out of line with the axis of the bike, but you're talking a VERY small amount. That moment, if made massive enough may cause your bike to stick BETTER... but I need to go draw some free-body diagrams and check my work on that one. Either way you're not talking anything amounts worth talking about I don't think. I'm going to have to ask about this when I see the CSS in June.

 

Get your FBD's ready coaches as I'm comin' with the question.

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Some racers assert you can steer the bike by putting pressure on the pegs. Keith developed the no-BS bike and effectively disproved this notion.

 

 

 

It has to do with bike geometry (COG , rake angle)

 

but seriously , the steering input , steering rate + turn point is completely fubar imho .

 

Not to mention you'll get booked by the cops if you do that ... its dangerous riding

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Applying force to the pegs will definitely result in the minor and uncontrolled "steering" displayed in that video, but thats really in the same league as demonstrating you can negotiate a freeway interchange without leaning the bike over at all and using massive body hang-off, it proves a point, but its a useless point as you have 0 control over the motorcycle, and there no real world application where its a useful technique, unless perhaps you're trying to combine the stress relief of riding a motorcycle with that of Tai Chi.

 

Also when you're cornering with as much force as is displayed in that photo, you're subject to just about as much gravity at full lean as when you're upright. Thats why pro racers often times appear to have almost no "lock" on the tank despite being massively hung off the bike. So in that situation, you might not really have to weight the pegs at all,

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I have read that top rank racers will vary pressure alternately between inner and out pegs as much as 10 times or more every corner to control slides, getting more or less slide going. I have absolutely no opinion on this because it is so far out of my realm I cannot even comprehence it, but that's what I've read from several winning racers.

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This is a lot like saying "I can run without bending my knees so therefore bending your knees while you run is useless". Yes, yes it is if you want to be slow, look funny, and have little agility. Just because someone 'could' do it doesn't mean it's the best tactic.

 

I bet y'all didn't know I can take almost any screw out of anything using nothing but my kitchen knife... but is it the best way to do it without risking slicing off a finger?

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As a racer, I have found myself weighting the pegs during slides and bumps but not for the reason I first thought. The first time it happened, it was instinct, I presume from riding dirt bikes. After it kept happening I went on the hunt as to why and if it was a good or bad thing. I thought it was an SR, until I watched TOTWII. When the track is bumpy or I slide a mild flex of the quads and hams allow my legs to lock harder on the tank and "assist" the suspension. And on a mostly stock 250, I feel it REALLY helps. And to this day, I have found nothing more if it is a good thing or not but it works for me.

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For fun I went out this afternoon and rode my Ninja 250 and then my Speed Triple and tried steering with peg pressure. On the Ninja, with a couple days to practice, I probably could steer as was seen in the video. The Speed Triple, not so much. However, even on the Ninja I had to press really hard into the peg to get the bike to move left/right. If I was rolling on the gas then it took an extremely hard push. The control was vague and wandering at best. I easily could do more using just one finger to apply hardly any pressure on the bars. I can't see what you could possibly accomplish trying to steer with the pegs that you couldn't otherwise better accomplish with dramatically less exertion, more precision, and quicker with the bars. I call it a gimmick at best.

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.........Put pressure on your outside knee into the tank. Also put pressure on the outside peg, like your tryin to stand the bike up........

 

The book simply describes how to use a support point (outside peg) in order to increase the leverage of the inside arm to energically and quicly force a counter-steering pumping action to quik-flick the bike upon the turn.

 

At high speeds, that action requires some serious force due to the gyroscopic resistance of the front wheel.

 

Once the bike is turning, you don't need that pressure on the outside peg for that purposse (since counter-steering is a one time input to lean the bike), but for creating friction between your boot and the peg, which compensates for the pressure of your outside knee against the tank.

 

Your question is not stupid.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Putting weight on the pegs does not lower the CG. I know it seems like it does but go ask your common highschool physics teacher and they will tell you the same thing :)

 

Putting weight on the pegs makes your knees into a suspension component = good!

Weighing the outside peg makes sure you're locked in with your outside knee to the tank. You can't lock in with your outside thigh without bracing at the peg as well.

 

The bike CG only changes when you move your body, not where your body is contact with the bike.

 

Watch this video and you'll understand :)

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