Throttle Control, Decreasing Radius And Steering Corrections

[sotys]

Hi all from a new member here. I just completed level 2 and have a question, perhaps simple for many of you.

 

As you know in the real life roads offer various surprises. One of them is decreasing radius where you could be surprised from time to time. Lets presume that I have approched the turn with the relevant speed, identify your turning point, lean the bike looking already to fix the apex or follow the vanishing point, as soon as (I think) the steering was completed gently get on the gas to follow Rule No.1

 

Let imagine at that time I realize that vanishing point is coming closer to me., i.e the radius of the turn decreases and apex is still unknown. . From one side I have to keep with Rule No.1, but also I should make additional steering input in order to keep the line. What I have to do at this stage - should I keep only maintenance throttle (or "flat" throttle) until I lean some more the bike OR the Rule No 1 should be kept as musch as possible, i.e arrecspective my additional lean efforts I should roll on the gas smoothly ?

 

Same situation may happen if during the turn I see for instance place with sand or grease or crack. That is typical case there I face SR - of corse in this case I tend to chop the gas, which is totally wrong.

 

What is your pinion here ?

 

Thanks everyone.

[ktk_ace]

the answer is written in stone in the book AND dvd. Why dont you reread it and tell us which chapter it appears in?

 

In the DVD it appears fairly early (SR hint hint)

[ThomasDark]

In this instance I usually move my shoulders inside and forward more and *SLIGHTLY* increase the rate of my throttle opening.

 

I guess I need to crack open the book again and read as I just don't remember what it says. I just know that decreasing throttle will make you run wide and if I want to make the bike turn tighter (in emergencies) to fight my intuition to chop the throttle and actually open 'er up a bit more to tighten the radius of my corner... just don't be aggressive with the opening or you risk your back tire trying to pass on the outside which is never a good thing.

 

Read on and let me know if I've gone wrong.

[warregl]

In case you don't have your copy of Twist II handy, Keith discusses this in the "Survival Training" section of Chapter 2. When discussing the 1% of the time Rule #1 doesn't apply he says: "even here you shouldn't really roll off the throttle; you should just stop rolling on for a moment", especially if you are adding lean angle. Adding lean angle and throttle together = bad.

 

When we roll on throttle to maintain the 40/60 weight distibution, what is that doing to the available traction on the rear tire? When we add lead angle what is that doing to the available traction for the rear tire? When you chop the throttle what does that do to the available traction on the front tire? Balance is the key.

 

Reread that section when you have a few minutes and let us know if you have questions.

 

Also, when you do your Level 3 you will get into the "Hook Turn" which could also be useful.

 

Best,

Carey

[sotys]

Thanks for input. I gave my book to a friend, obviously I should have mine copy to re-read from time to time.

 

Carey, what you quote from Keith seems to me as solution. I should train my self to have this tricky balance in the blind curves. Still mentally for me is very difficult to add leaning angle (although all my logic says I have enough reserve) while keeping the throttle open. All is training.....

[warregl]

... for me is very difficult to add leaning angle (although all my logic says I have enough reserve) while keeping the throttle open. All is training.....

 

I know what you are saying, your SRs want you to slow down however if you reduce throttle you are increasing the load on your front tire thus reducing available traction. Adding lean angle also uses up traction but you have a larger contact patch on the rear, thats why we use the throttle to keep the weight balance 40% front to 60% rear. Additionally good throttle control keeps the suspension working in your favor.

 

Training and practice will get you there. Some track skills are harder to practice on the street than others but not throttle control. You can work on that one anytime (which is a good reason to ride more ).

[sotys]

Thanks for encouraging and advises...

[Lnewqban]

Hi all from a new member here. I just completed level 2 and have a question, perhaps simple for many of you.

 

Welcome to the forums, Sotys !

 

It is good to know what to do once you are in trouble; however, street riding is more about foreseeing and not getting into trouble than escaping from it.

Be extra cautious while riding unfamiliar roads and turns and never outrun your vision field.

Always look as broad and far as possible, scanning for trouble.

Leaning your bike blindly into a turn will place you above that patch of spilled Diesel or sand sooner or later.

 

Read these articles:

 

http://www.motorcycl..._a_trained_eye/

 

http://www.motorcycl...ics_code_break/

 

http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/features/columns/122_1205_sharp_focus_code_break/

[Hotfoot]

Lots of helpful advice has been given here; but I do want to add a safety reminder. Good throttle control makes the bike handle predictably; makes it hold its line. It will NOT, however, FIX a really bad line. If you have already made a big error (turning in way too early, for example) and you are headed off the road, good throttle control will not fix that. If you realize your chosen line is going to take you off the asphalt, don't just keep rolling on and hope for a miracle; you may have to stand the bike up, brake to slow down, and then turn it again.

 

As Lnewqban says above, the best thing is to be cautious on unfamiliar roads and turns; radius and camber changes that you can't see coming can get you into trouble. Good throttle control is a tremendously effective tool for getting the best handling from your bike (and poor throttle control can definitely screw up your line) but it may not be enough to keep you on the road if a turn tightens up sharply and unexpectedly.

[sotys]

I fully agree with you that open road is not a track. Thus on the roads I stay away from my persoanl limits, with an idea to avoid dangerous situations as well as to have enough reserve of traction to try to overcome by bad habits and SRs.

[Hotfoot]

I fully agree with you that open road is not a track. Thus on the roads I stay away from my persoanl limits, with an idea to avoid dangerous situations as well as to have enough reserve of traction to try to overcome by bad habits and SRs.

 

Well said!

[Ventodue]

... you may have to stand the bike up, brake to slow down, and then turn it again.

 

+1. On the road, you should never be so committed to a blind bend that you can't lean it a bit more . But, should the unimagineable ever happen , standing the bike up, braking and re-steering is your final option.

 

On the track, you won't get caught out by a decreasing radius, of course.

[Hotfoot]

... you may have to stand the bike up, brake to slow down, and then turn it again.

 

+1. On the road, you should never be so committed to a blind bend that you can't lean it a bit more . But, should the unimagineable ever happen , standing the bike up, braking and re-steering is your final option.

 

On the track, you won't get caught out by a decreasing radius, of course.

 

Even when you know it is coming (on a track), a decreasing radius turn can still be a real challenge. Entering a little too fast or rolling on a bit too aggressively can make the last part of a DR turn a little TOO exciting.

 

That's when hook turn (level 3) comes in very handy.

[EricG]

Sotys, 2 words: hook turn. At the end of TotW2, there is a discussion of the hook turn specifically for this situation. Per Keith, roll off a bit while simultaneously leaning forward and into the turn, the extra lean will offset the tendency of the bike to stand up, rolling off will then tighten the turn by lowering the lean and moving the mass distribution forward.

 

Gotta admit this is still very alien to me, though I'm trying to figure it out as it's a potent weapon in the arsenal. Hope it gets covered in my level 1 course I. August!