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Learning From Tv.


Stroker
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How much can you learn by say watching a MOTO GP race on video? Everything is happening so fast and the GP riders jump and do other " Bad Body Positions " in the race.

 

I saw Pedrosa practically leaping from side to side to get his bike turned in the chicanes.

 

Can someone shed some light on this?

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I would say there is nothing a normal rider can learn from watching a MotoGP race, the level of technology in the bikes and tires and the way they ride them is soooo far beyond anything you have access to its irrelevant to a average rider. The riding style that Marquez uses is clearly not something you would want to emulate at a normal track day pace, and without the electronic aids that he has would likely result in a serious accident, but you would have a hard time convincing him that his style is "wrong" his results speak for themselves. They also brake so incredibly hard at lean angle that even the lines they use are mostly irrelevant to the average rider. Id say its about as useful as trying to learn better driving technique by watching a F1 race, its just so far beyond where a normal car is the physics and rules are different.

 

 

Tyler

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I don't feel that I learn much from watching the races on TV; it is too hard to evaluate what the rider is doing and whether it is really working well for them or not, there is just not enough info. I can see blatant mistakes (charging the turn then running wide, for example), and potentially learn from that; but I can't tell things like whether the rider's body position is really helping them go faster, or whether that position is even possible for me on my bike; whether it is comfortable and relaxed for them or exhausting; whether they are in that position because it is efficient or just because they are compensating for something else (like a broken collarbone!), etc.

 

Plus I have a sneaking suspicion that those bikes at that pace would feel just a LITTLE different than my bike at my pace.... :)

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I don't think the pace would matter in spotting mistakes much. Things like chopping the throttle or adding lean while rolling it on would be evident regardless of pace.

Needless to say, at a high ability level, where the rider is able to control the bike at very high speed there would be less or subtler mistakes as the margin for error is smaller and big mess ups at that speed would probably mean we were watching a crash video...

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Pretty broad area, maybe if we narrowed it down a little.

 

For example, a sharp observer would notice some things about braking. At the top level, when the riders come into the brakes, the front dives, but does not snap down. And then it doesn't go up and down, the forks stay pretty consistent. Another point (seems obvious to many, but at every school we encounter students that need training in this) and that is which brake to use, and how much? With the back end up in the air (or just skimming) and the riders hanging a leg out (the current fad), pretty obvious the rear brake isn't doing much.

 

Another point that could be observed would be how the brakes are released. Trail braking seems to interest many, and observing that, and how it is done could be another area.

 

How about steering? Body positioning in advance? We fairly often comment to students that if they get a chance to watch a race, have a look at when the top riders move their bodies into position.

 

Maybe this will get you guys thinking of some other points where one could get some useful information (or you already have gotten it) from watching racing.

 

Of course, there is the just the darn thrill of watching the guys at the top do it and that is just inspirational!

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I did observe their body position and was intrigued.

 

Why do they hang their leg out? Extra drag? It is almost as if they touch the ground with their inside leg and then get it on the peg :unsure: Is it to gauge lean angle?

 

It may be of some use in the wet, some kind of support if case you tip the bike over too fast.

 

I noticed they sit up and brake, and the leg comes out and cheek moves off the seat in one motion.They kind of make contact with their toes, and then get the inside leg on the pegs with the elbow of the outer side touching the knee cap of the outside leg... :o

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This " Mystery " about GP rider's techniques is quite intriguing.Perhaps Keith will offer some perspective.

 

Another thing - Gp riders climb the ranks doing local races and then Moto 3 etc.SO can we say their technique was honed in the lower ranks ie They learnt to do that there and by the time they were doing GP are just very good at it?

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Yes and no. Some never adapt to what's needed to go at the very top level at Moto GP.

 

Here is an example: some years ago, a racer from the US went to Europe to race a 250. He was a top 5 US guy, went to Europe and pretty much got his ___ kicked.

 

Came back and said, "Hey man, you have got to brake all the way to the apex!" This is what the other guys that were just barely faster than him were doing, guys he was duking it out with. But...it's not what the guys at the front were doing.

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I see.Conversely, the guys who we do see in Moto Gp must not be doing anything for the sake of it - Like hanging the foot out during the initial turning effort.

 

The antics we see must have some scientific basis then? :unsure:

 

I wonder if the school approves of the current crop of GP riders..?

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  • 2 weeks later...

You can learn a few things from watching GP. They're all doing almost the same thing now-a-days and it's good reinforcement for the observing rider. No, there are a number of things we can't do that they're doing, but getting that body position down and the subtle differences between them are note-worthy. Small changes were made to Smith's BP during testing before Aragon, for example. If you watched Tony Elias a couple of years ago, you would have seen an exaggeration of BP that doesn't work with the current technology in GP. Watching Pedrosa throw that bike up coming out of corners is good reinforcement of the pick-up drill. One thing I'm working on right now is something Rossi used to do, but doesn't anymore. He used to throw the bike over and not guide it down with his knee, like every other rider does, but his knee would scrape right at the limit. He was truly one with the bike. I almost did it once today, and am working on that in one corner specifically all day. Then I'll try doing it in another corner, then another. Also, regardless what some people tell you, and the special gloves that are sold capitalizing on this myth, some things can be done differently and are not "right or wrong." Watching, again, Rossi brake, you can see you can use as many fingers as you want to brake. Some riders change it up depending on the corner, some (Vale) just grab a fistful of brake lever and work it that way.

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Except for Stoner, we seem to be in the reign of the Spaniards, and do they all hang a leg out, or just sometimes? How often does Jorge do it?

 

When they do it on the right foot, kinda makes a dent in the guys that say one has to use the rear brake too (just thought I'd stir that pot :)).

 

CF

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Except for Stoner, we seem to be in the reign of the Spaniards, and do they all hang a leg out, or just sometimes? How often does Jorge do it?

 

When they do it on the right foot, kinda makes a dent in the guys that say one has to use the rear brake too (just thought I'd stir that pot :)).

 

CF

Interesting questions, which i asked myself when i was watching.My observations - They hang the left leg more than the right.The Spaniards do it, but Jorge seems to avoid it if he can.Some times though they let the foot drag like they are skating or something.Perhaps to steady the bike if they went in too hot?

 

Some people seem to avoid it, like Dovi.I have seen the leg drag more when there are 2-3 guys taking the turn one behind the other, and not so much when they are more or less solo and chasing a pack ( later laps ).

 

Long sweeping turns and turns at the end of a straight seem to bring the leg out.Which leads me to wonder if fast corners = leg dragging.

 

Thoughts?

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  • 2 weeks later...

i'm just blown away by what these bikes can do. I love the way they get the rear spinning up to bring the bike around the corner

so that they can stand it up and get on the gas.

You can too with skill (School) and hardware (Programmable traction control catered to your bike , riding style AND track of choice )

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