Running Into The Dirt...?

[Stroker]

You know how roads have dirt piled up toward the outer edges? Say you are in a corner, it is off camber and you are running wide and going into the dirt.What do you do then? Lean further or slow down by trailing the brakes? Or both?

[YellowDuck]

General advice: Lean further. Then lean even further. Best case scenario is you make it. Worst case you lowside.

 

Additional advice for riders who actually know what the lean limit is for their bike - i.e., have scraped hard parts before: If you are ***sure*** you can't make it, stand it up quickly and brake hard until you run out of asphalt, then get off the front brake, use the rear lightly if you can, and pray a little as you run through ditch. That way you crash at the lowest possible speed, or maybe don't crash if your guardian angel is on duty.

[Kevin Kane]

General advice: Lean further. Then lean even further. Best case scenario is you make it. Worst case you lowside.

Yellow Duck;

This isn't General Advice that I think many of us would embrace; every low side I have ever had was far worse than running off the track every time it's happened. Your second paragraph is an improvement over your opening but the opening is hard to ignore.

 

Rainman

[YellowDuck]

 

General advice: Lean further. Then lean even further. Best case scenario is you make it. Worst case you lowside.

Yellow Duck;

This isn't General Advice that I think many of us would embrace; every low side I have ever had was far worse than running off the track every time it's happened. Your second paragraph is an improvement over your opening but the opening is hard to ignore.

 

Rainman

 

 

I agree 100% for track riding, but the question was about road riding, where going off the road at speed usually means going down for sure. By contrast, just leaning more will let you make the turn in a large majority of cases since most street riders underestimate the amount of lean available (since they have never experienced it).

 

If the road you are on is more or less like a race track (many meters of smooth, level grass or dirt before a ditch, wall, guardrail, forest etc.), then yes, by all means, stand it up, brake hard then ride it out off the road. But that's a pretty rare circumstance, at least on the roads where I ride!

 

I stand by my advice for road riding: if in doubt, lean more. Chances are you will make it. Actually, it's pretty darn good advice for the novice track rider as well.

[Kevin Kane]

I agree 100% for track riding, but the question was about road riding, where going off the road at speed usually means going down for sure.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here.

[ScrmnDuc]

 

 

You know how roads have dirt piled up toward the outer edges? Say you are in a corner, it is off camber and you are running wide and going into the dirt.What do you do then? Lean further or slow down by trailing the brakes? Or both?

 

First, do not target fixate!! Which SR is that? If you are looking at the dirt piles, where are you going?

How many more SR's could this trigger?

If you have watched the Twist 2 dvd there is a section that covers what you are asking.

What would you think the correct answer would be?

 

[csmith12]

I am not sure of the question. Is the question assuming a crash is unavoidable? Running wide + a bit of debris in the road doesn't automatically mean crash does it? No... so what should you be doing? And yea, the answers can be found in the TOTW 2 dvd.

 

Bonus question: What racing technique can also be used on the street as a way to tighten your line, avoid debris or handle surprise decreasing radius?

[mugget]

General advice: Lean further. Then lean even further. Best case scenario is you make it. Worst case you lowside.

 

I've gotta agree... if a rider believes they're going to run wide and the outside of the turn is the edge of a mountain or armco (most likely placed at the edge of the mountain!) then it makes not much sense to try and stand the bike up and stop. Guaranteed you will go off the mountain (either with the bike, or flipping over the bike when it hits the armco).

 

I know that the brakes work better with both wheels on the ground and the bike upright, but turning does also reduce speed. And if the option is possibly making the turn, or definitely going off a cliff...

 

And let's be honest, the majority of riders do grossly underestimate their maximum lean. Actually I am probably guilty of this to a certain degree on the street as well, only because I'm used to keeping an extra safety margin. But when it's not an option to run wide, I know that I must keep turning, then keep turning some more until I make the corner. I see that as an exercise in mental discipline, to stay focussed and basically exercise my force of will to overcome any doubts or fears and just do what I need to.

 

What do you do then? Lean further or slow down by trailing the brakes? Or both?

 

I just realised how much is involved in that question. Not sure if you have the TOTW 2 DVD available to you, so here's my response to your questions (which is not by any means comprehensive).

 

First of all consider the #1 cause of mid-turn crashes. The brakes! If you look at any race footage or Rnickeymouse vids on YouTube you'll see that no one just lowsides all of a sudden with no reason, the vast majority involve the use of the front brake. Next consider that if you have enough traction available to use the brakes, that means you could also use that traction turn turn even harder, a mid-turn "quick flick" if you like. Then think of what will happen to your ground clearance if you do apply the brakes mid-turn - you'll have reduced ground clearance and won't be able to turn as much. All of those point lead me to the conclusion that I would leave the brakes completely alone, and focus 100% on just turning more and making the turn.

 

One other point to note is that if you do happen to freeze up and you find yourself coasting with zero steering input, zero brake or throttle input, your reducing speed will actually result in a tightening line, so you can bring the bike back away from the edge of the road. Or perhaps you can use that moment to gain your composure, realising that you're no longer heading to the edge of the road you could clear your mind of thoughts of imminent death and get back to the task at hand.

 

I know exactly the type of situation you're talking about, except for me it's usually leaves on the outside edge of the road. For me it helps to keep the correct mental objective. The objective is not to stay clear of the leaves... not really. The objective is to stay on line and complete the turn. As long as I am accurate with my turn points, steering input etc. then everything is fine, I can even ride close to the leaves without a problem (not recommending that BTW, but sometimes it's required to keep my entire body in my own lane).

 

Bonus question: What racing technique can also be used on the street as a way to tighten your line, avoid debris or handle surprise decreasing radius?

 

 

I give up. Please do tell!

[ANORXIC'51]

^Hook Turn technique.

[csmith12]

^Hook Turn technique.

 

werd!

[mugget]

Ah, right. I haven't done that yet. But you had me interested in why it would be a racing technique and not a riding technique, I'll put it down to choice of werds!