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Cornering Issue - Pushing The Bike Underneath Me


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Hi Everybody. A few months back I took both level I and Level II at Street of Willow. I will be taking Levels III and IV next year.

I had a great time and learned alot. My Instructor was Pete (very good instructor). I feel much more confident that I can turn the bike quickly at corner entrance.

When practicing the exercises specifically the quick turn drill - Here is what happens to me as I turn bike into corner

 

1. As I approach the corner I move my cheek off seat

2. Lock outer leg into tank (less pressure on the bars)

3. Inside knee is ready to come out

4. Just before turn-in point I'm looking into the corner

5. At turn-in point I quickly countersteer into corner - elbows level (one motion that is it...) No more pressure on the bars...

6. As the bike starts to falls into the corner with my knee already out I move my upper body (head and shoulder) into the turn.

7. However as the bike reaches near desired lean angle I will just for a moment move my upper body back towards the tank, in essence slightly pushing the bike underneath me...

8. Once the bike has settled I will move the upper body back into the turn.

9. It seems that I don't let my body naturally fall into the corner completely with the bike.

 

Note: It is more pronounced on Right hand turns, then Left hand turns. I seem to favor Left Hand turns more the Right. However I have been working alot to correct this.

 

I'm 6" tall and weigh 200 lbs - Yamaha R1 - Stomp Pads on tank. Sata Rear Sets are adjusted for me.

 

What can I do to correct this problem?

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Hi super60,

 

I assume you are posting this under "School Questions" hoping for an instructor to reply. I am not one; but, while you wait, I can offer my own perception of my riding...

 

For me, step 5 (of your list) seems to take me all the way to the first half of step 8 in about 1/2 second...or maybe even less. And it seems that when I stop putting pressure on the bars, the bike stops changing lean angle. My upper body generally does not move (that I am aware of) during that short time frame.

 

In any case, # 9 in your list would seem to suggest an answer to me.

 

My humble advice, based on your description and my own experience, is to complete step 6 prior to step 5 and to stop adding step 7 and part two of step 8 altogether. And, of course, to smoothly get back on the throttle as soon as possible after you reach the desired lean angle.

 

 

Why are you moving your body back and forth while leaning in?

 

 

racer

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Hi super60,

 

I assume you are posting this under "School Questions" hoping for an instructor to reply. I am not one; but, while you wait, I can offer my own perception of my riding...

 

For me, step 5 (of your list) seems to take me all the way to the first half of step 8 in about 1/2 second...or maybe even less. And it seems that when I stop putting pressure on the bars, the bike stops changing lean angle. My upper body generally does not move (that I am aware of) during that short time frame.

 

In any case, # 9 in your list would seem to suggest an answer to me.

 

My humble advice, based on your description and my own experience, is to complete step 6 prior to step 5 and to stop adding step 7 and part two of step 8 altogether. And, of course, to smoothly get back on the throttle as soon as possible after you reach the desired lean angle.

 

 

Why are you moving your body back and forth while leaning in?

 

 

racer

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Thanks racer for the fast reply

 

I have observed that the reason I move my body back a bit as the bike reaches desired lean angle is to brace myself as the bike finishes falling into turn, however I catch myself and move back into the turn...

 

I think you are on to something - Let me summarize what you said:

 

As I approach TP move with cheek off seat, move upper body (head, shoulder, centerline) into turn first, then at TP countersteer quickly into turn... crack open throttle at desired lean angle or ASAP.

 

Keep body in position until turn is finished... after exit... Thus no movement back and forth. Also my body will naturally fall into the turn with the bike. Where as before I was moving my upper body into the turn at the same time I was countersteering...

 

I will practice this as soon as it stops raining in LA...

 

Thanks for you help!

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Thanks racer for the fast reply

 

I have observed that the reason I move my body back a bit as the bike reaches desired lean angle is to brace myself as the bike finishes falling into turn, however I catch myself and move back into the turn...

 

I think you are on to something - Let me summarize what you said:

 

As I approach TP move with cheek off seat, move upper body (head, shoulder, centerline) into turn first, then at TP countersteer quickly into turn... crack open throttle at desired lean angle or ASAP.

 

Keep body in position until turn is finished... after exit... Thus no movement back and forth. Also my body will naturally fall into the turn with the bike. Where as before I was moving my upper body into the turn at the same time I was countersteering...

 

I will practice this as soon as it stops raining in LA...

 

Thanks for you help!

 

super60,

 

Since you have Stomp on the bike use it like you mean it. The inside of your leg by the knees will rub down to raw leather from using them.

 

Keith

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  • 3 months later...
super60,

 

Since you have Stomp on the bike use it like you mean it. The inside of your leg by the knees will rub down to raw leather from using them.

 

Keith

 

 

Keith,

 

I have tried to pull the bike over into turns using roughly equal pressure on the inside peg and the outside leg on the tank. Is that right?

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super60,

 

Since you have Stomp on the bike use it like you mean it. The inside of your leg by the knees will rub down to raw leather from using them.

 

Keith

 

 

Keith,

 

I have tried to pull the bike over into turns using roughly equal pressure on the inside peg and the outside leg on the tank. Is that right?

 

Hi Prand,

 

Missed this thread, just now getting to it.

 

The stomp grip is to help you anchor on the bike, so that you are solidly anchored either hanging off (or not).

 

Countersteering is what will turn the bike, change it's direction, not pressure on the pegs. Pressure on the pegs has almost no effect.

 

There are other threads that cover that, let me know if you need a reference on them.

 

Best,

Cobie

Chief Riding Coach

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Hi Prand,

 

Missed this thread, just now getting to it.

 

The stomp grip is to help you anchor on the bike, so that you are solidly anchored either hanging off (or not).

 

Countersteering is what will turn the bike, change it's direction, not pressure on the pegs. Pressure on the pegs has almost no effect.

 

There are other threads that cover that, let me know if you need a reference on them.

 

Best,

Cobie

Chief Riding Coach

Sure, please send me the links. I remember one turn in particular where I was accelerating through a sweeper (T2 at the big track at Willow) and found myself drifting to the outside. I then stomped on the inside peg and the bike carved a tighter line. The reason I bring it up now is that I THOUGHT the peg weighting was what pulled me in tighter but in fact maybe I was countersteering and didn't realize it.

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Hi Prand,

 

Your pushing on the inside peg and having having the bike take a better line was the result of you taking undue pressure off the bars, not any weight transfer. This allowed the bike to track properly.

Best analogy I have heard regarding weighting the pegs (to change direction) was provided by Keith. So here it is.

 

If you were to sit in a rocking chair with both feet off the floor, but resting on the curved end of the legs, can you rock the chair by pushing on the legs with your feet?

 

 

While riding thru turn 2 at big Willow it's important to get locked onto the bike with your legs. The turn is so long, it's easy to start pulling on the bars trying to hang onto the bike while hanging off. Same with turn 8, but just a whole lot faster. :o

 

Here's a trick I use when riding thru turn 8. I talk to myself. "light on the bars" "light on the bars" "light on...." :)

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If you were to sit in a rocking chair with both feet off the floor, but resting on the curved end of the legs, can you rock the chair by pushing on the legs with your feet?

Er, uh, that would be a "no". I'm not arguing with you, but it sure FELT like it was peg weighting. Perspective is a funny thing. As a skier, one example of perspective I like to use is a snowy mountain: If you're at the bottom looking up, you might think, "Hmm. That would make a nice postcard," but if you're at the top looking down, you're thinking, "Holy sh*t, how am I going to get down alive?!?" It's the same mountain...just depends on how you look at it.

 

While riding thru turn 2 at big Willow it's important to get locked onto the bike with your legs. The turn is so long, it's easy to start pulling on the bars trying to hang onto the bike while hanging off. Same with turn 8, but just a whole lot faster. :o

 

Here's a trick I use when riding thru turn 8. I talk to myself. "light on the bars" "light on the bars" "light on...." :)

Turns 2 and 8 are so long that I think muscle fatigue plays into it after a while. In other words, when your thighs turn to rubber, you might be inclined to do something on the bike that isn't good. That's why I think you have to be in good shape for Big Willow.

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For sure having the legs in good shape is a plus, but how many use too much to hang onto the bike with? I remember being so sore after the first real track riding of the year (and was in decent shape back then). Now it's not nearly so bad, and I'm not in as good a shape, but I'm for sure lazier.

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I'm not arguing with you, but it sure FELT like it was peg weighting.

 

 

 

I used to do that. Its more like using the inside peg to push the bike underneath you. Its described in one of my questions on here somewhere. I think I picked it up from dirt bikes.

 

P.s whats up with quotes? Doesnt seem to work

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I'm not arguing with you, but it sure FELT like it was peg weighting.

 

 

 

I used to do that. Its more like using the inside peg to push the bike underneath you. Its described in one of my questions on here somewhere. I think I picked it up from dirt bikes.

 

P.s whats up with quotes? Doesnt seem to work

 

I think you have to take care to leave the quote and brackets in.

 

Regarding the peg weighting: do an experiment when you get a chance: pay very close attention to what is being done with the bars. Often when riders are in a good hang off position, they are in a much better position regarding the leverage they put on the bars. A little tiny effort (when down low and pushing forward) can make a HUGE difference in bar pressure, and the effect of it. A better thing will be to have you ride the NO B/S Bike. Everyone should ride that thing once, and really, really see what you get done with the bars, and what other things do: weighting the pegs, pushing on the tank, etc.

 

C

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