Sv650 Track Bike

[Thumper748]

Hi Chief,

Just a few of your thoughts to some things I'm doing with my bike (SV650s 2000 gen 1 track bike) would be appreciated.

 

1. Currently I have .85 springs with GVE and 15 wht fork oil.

Problem: Front end comes up too quickly (I think this is called rebound). I think heavier and more fork oil could solve this issue?

 

2. I am using 15/40 Dello 400 (without any additives) oil because it has similar characteristics to many motorcycle oils at half the price. I change it for fresh stuff with a filter every second or third track day.

Problem: No problem at all, bikes feels great, oil always looks clean and even changes gear nicer. The only problem is people think I'm mad.

 

3. I get really bad headaches after every track day. I drink about a litre of water maybe more and eat well. More coffee?

 

Thanks,

Mr. Slow.

[mckeann]

i dont know what part of the world your doing trackdays, but at a recent 2 day camo in vegas in 93 degF heat, i drank in excess of 7 litres of water to try and stay hydrated. Coffee dehydrates you, so you want to avoid it.for a day or two before, and on the day.

[Steve Rutter]

Can't help you on the mechanical side of things as I'm useless there, but as mentioned above, looking at your photo you're in the 'States somewhere and will need to drink a lot more, I drank 3 litres at my day on Friday, I'd imagine you'd need a lot more than that where you are. As one of the instructors said 'If you're not peeing a lot, then you're not drinking enough'.

 

 

[khp]

Hi Chief,

Just a few of your thoughts to some things I'm doing with my bike (SV650s 2000 gen 1 track bike) would be appreciated.

 

1. Currently I have .85 springs with GVE and 15 wht fork oil.

Problem: Front end comes up too quickly (I think this is called rebound). I think heavier and more fork oil could solve this issue?

 

2. I am using 15/40 Dello 400 (without any additives) oil because it has similar characteristics to many motorcycle oils at half the price. I change it for fresh stuff with a filter every second or third track day.

Problem: No problem at all, bikes feels great, oil always looks clean and even changes gear nicer. The only problem is people think I'm mad.

 

3. I get really bad headaches after every track day. I drink about a litre of water maybe more and eat well. More coffee?

 

Thanks,

Mr. Slow.

Hi Slow,

 

Heavier oil will give you slower compression and rebound. Increasing the oil level will only change the effective spring rate (combo of the physical spring rate plus the trapped air volume above the oil), not the rebound speed.

I am not too familiar with the SV650'ies, but I seem to recall that there are no external adjusters for compression and rebound on the first generation?

 

+1 on avoiding coffee and drinking more water.

 

Kai

[warregl]

'If you're not peeing a lot, then you're not drinking enough'.

 

I have to agree on the hydration as well, headaches are a classic symptom of dehydration. On a normal day the body needs eight 8oz glasses of water (that's half a gallon) and yes most people don't drink that much therefore are walking around slightly dehydrated already. Heat and exertion of course exaggerates the need so you have to drink more. And at the risk of TMI, the lighter the color the better, ie if your urine is dark yellow you are not hydrated properly. You should also begin heavy hydrating (and go easy on the caffeinated drinks) at least one day before.

 

Good luck and I hope this helps the headaches.

[aredman]

Gunna throw up another suggestion which is an issue for me on the headaches; NOISE!!!

 

I wear earplugs whilst riding but often will even wear them whilst on the pit wall watching or just sitting around in the pits. Bikes are noisy and they affect our senses (in both good and bad ways) and I know for a fact that I get headaches because of it. Do I love the noise bikes make? Absolutely, but sometimes it gets a bit much over the course of a day so be sure to look after your ears and head.

 

Also agree on the hydration as per above.

 

I know nothing about suspension so no comment.

 

Engine oil, I use a product manufactured for cars but I contacted the manufacturer to discuss and read the fine print, "Suitable for motorcycles with wet clutches". Suggestion, contact the manufacturer, they won't (shouldn't) recommend something they don't see as being suitable for fear of the liability (get it in writing). My reason for using this oil - I can get 20litres of it for the price of 4litres of mid range motorcycle specific oil (which has just had the label changed anyway).

 

Cheers

 

Ash

[Thumper748]

Thanks for your replies. I am actually located in South Australia... which is why the grass in the photo is dead. It has rained this year and now the corner is slightly greener

 

I will use the heavier weight fork oil and see how that goes. It will be the last mod I do to the standard front end as I make way for a GSXR front end conversion. There's no external adjustment on the gen 1 sv and no brakes either! haha

 

But surprisingly enough to out brake a few 600 and litre bike though.

[fossilfuel]

What's up...Just a thought about fork oil here...The 15 weight fork oil you are using seems awfully heavy and more and heavier oil does not sound like the answer to me. What is the recommended "centistoke" value for your bike? Oils can be different weights but have similar centistoke values. I run Ohlins internals and they recommend a 19 centistoke value for my 30mm fork internals. I can find a 5 weight and 10 weight that have the same centistoke value...so the weight doesn't necessarily mean to much.

You may need more oil for different reasons, Maybe you are leaking oil, maybe its old and tired. Maybe you don't have enough rebound damping, or maybe you don't have enough spring preload. I would not add any oil until I knew what the level should be and the recommended fork oil centistoke value is.

[Jasonzilla]

Not to go against the grain here, but caffeine has to be taken in massive, massive amounts to cause significant diuresis. Do not drink more coffee to hydrate though. More water. And although I'm normally opposed to sports drinks (particularly because most people don't do near enough activity to warrant them), they are an OK fluid to switch up with water.

 

We can sweat a lot more than we see when coming off the track, especially with perforated suits. The speeds we reach can evaporate our sweat because of wind, which means that our bodies sweat even more to compensate for that massive loss in a continuous attempt to cool our bodies. The thing with that is to realize also that as we lose water, we also lose electrolytes. If we exercise intensely up to 4-6 hours, we have enough electrolytes in our bodies to compensate until we can replenish ourselves with what's in food.

 

Sodium is the biggest loser. As a rule, just remember "where goes salt, so goes water." So sodium is the more excreted electrolyte. Other one's that can and will be lost that will effect muscle function is potassium and magnesium. As a side note, if your magnesium is low, your potassium will almost always be also. The main one though, is sodium. That and water directly travel together. If you have a heart condition and have a limit to your amount of sodium intake, please consult your doctor.

 

Sports drinks contain all of that. The popular sports drinks (Powerade and Gatorade) don't really have a significant amount of sodium or potassium once we get to the point of needing increased replenishment though. You'll also still need to ensure you're drinking more water, and if they have the sodium and potassium tabs available, as they do in our CSS classes in the US, take advantage of that with water over the sports drinks.

 

Don't wait until you're not peeing, or it stinks or is dark in color, to start drinking. That's too late. When it's cooler in the mornings, take advantage and stay as hydrated as you can then, so when it gets hotter and you're unable to keep up, you're not that far behind the power curve.

 

The most you can really do is try to keep yourself as hydrated as possible, eat a healthy breakfast and lunch (don't be afraid to add salt), and sit and rest in a cool place as much as possible while you're in the school to let your body rest, recover and cool off. Movement takes muscle which causes friction and warms us up even more. That's why we shiver when we're cold and warm up when we move around. It works the muscles and warms us up.

 

Can you have a cup of Joe (or whatever you call coffee in your geographic location) or two in the morning? Yes. But don't increase your coffee intake to rehydrate yourself.

[johnnyrod]

Mr Slow yes there is too little rebound although changing to 20W oil might not help too much. As Fossil says, the viscosity can vary with the same grade from different people (e.g. Motul is always runny). If you want to do something before teh GSXR front end arrives then you can weld up the rebound damping holes, this is done sometimes on SVs as the blow-by of the damper rod piston rings is pretty significant. Also check your preload at the front, aim for about 25mm sag with you on the bike, as if it goes down too much, it'll have to come back up all that way. finally, check teh rear, a hard rear makes the front feel soft and vice versa.

 

Oil without additives is fine as long as it's changed more often, so may be false economy. If by "no additives" you mean it has some detergents etc. but none of the stuff that makes the clutch slip then I would just treat it as normal.

[Thumper748]

Mr Slow yes there is too little rebound although changing to 20W oil might not help too much. As Fossil says, the viscosity can vary with the same grade from different people (e.g. Motul is always runny). If you want to do something before teh GSXR front end arrives then you can weld up the rebound damping holes, this is done sometimes on SVs as the blow-by of the damper rod piston rings is pretty significant. Also check your preload at the front, aim for about 25mm sag with you on the bike, as if it goes down too much, it'll have to come back up all that way. finally, check teh rear, a hard rear makes the front feel soft and vice versa.

 

Oil without additives is fine as long as it's changed more often, so may be false economy. If by "no additives" you mean it has some detergents etc. but none of the stuff that makes the clutch slip then I would just treat it as normal.

 

 

When I fitted the gold valve emulators I had to add dampening holes into the dampening rods.

 

Front sag, measuring by lifting front as up as much as I can without tyre off the ground and then me sitting on the bike in riding position is about 29mm. The rear measures about 15-20mm I think. I added a spacer to the front last track day which would get the front closer to 25mm I think. I have a Maxton shock with ohlins 628 spring on rear.

 

Overall the bike is much harder than a standard sv but still feels soft compared to my standard road bike Ducati which was set up to my weight (75kg) by a suspension professional. With the track bike I'm trying to do as much work as I can so I can get a better understanding. There's no external adjustement with the current front end. I'm only a few spacers and some brake lines away from getting the GSXR front end ready Flashy!

 

As for oil - the delo has no economy saving additives which could cause the clutch to slip. Bike ran fine last track day – oil looks clean. Will replace each race so it's always fresh.

[johnnyrod]

Sag sounds fine, maybe you could go for a little less though, maybe 20-25. You can fit the preload adjuster fork tops of the slightly later curvy model, 2001 or so onwards? You'll need the washer that goes under the adjuster and also to shorten the spacer tubes.

 

something I've jsut remembered, did you drill and extra set of holes? If so then this pretty much kills off the damping at full compression, they still have it in the manual. If you have the springs out then when you pump the forks you'll feel it sudenly go soft before bottoming out. If you don't bottom them then it should beno problem though.

[Thumper748]

The bike now has GSXR front end with radial mount brakes.

Will test out on track hopefully next weekend.

[comptonchinee]

The bike now has GSXR front end with radial mount brakes.

Will test out on track hopefully next weekend.

Oooooo... An SVX-R!!! Sounds like an awesome conversion!!

[Gorecki]

The bike now has GSXR front end with radial mount brakes.

Will test out on track hopefully next weekend.

 

Really common conversion and should square away most of your front end suspension issues. What gets me is how often this bike is a LW/MW twin class racer favorite but Suzuki hasn't figured that out yet and start offering a super version of the thing. Or, they have and I just don't know.

[bradvanhorn]

The bike now has GSXR front end with radial mount brakes.

Will test out on track hopefully next weekend.

 

Really common conversion and should square away most of your front end suspension issues. What gets me is how often this bike is a LW/MW twin class racer favorite but Suzuki hasn't figured that out yet and start offering a super version of the thing. Or, they have and I just don't know.

No they haven't... and I fully agree with you re: a factory upgraded SV650. Part of the reason I went with the R6 over the SV was because I didn't want to mess with rebuilding the SV to give it the "upgrades". If Suzuki offered an "SVXR-650", or whatever you want to name it, I would get in line for one.

[Gorecki]

No they haven't... and I fully agree with you re: a factory upgraded SV650. Part of the reason I went with the R6 over the SV was because I didn't want to mess with rebuilding the SV to give it the "upgrades". If Suzuki offered an "SVXR-650", or whatever you want to name it, I would get in line for one.

 

Man I wouldn't be shocked if someone got serious and did a parts seek and destroy, the could come up with enough parts to market full ready-to-go 'SVXR-UP' kits! Gosh knows with the amount of gixxers bin'd by squids, it probably would be almost easy.

[Thumper748]

Yep, the front end parts all came from America - second hand.

Had a local guy fit it all up here in South Australia.

Hopefully will test out this weekend.

 

However, as bad as the standard front end was – in the intermediate groups I could still hold more corner speed than guys on 600/1000 inline fours.

 

I think the lack of brakes and soft suspension actually forced me to be a smoother rider.

 

 

[Gorecki]

I think the lack of brakes and soft suspension actually forced me to be a smoother rider.

 

 

Man, you're going to have SOOO much more braking ability then you had before!! Congrats!

 

Those SV's are forgiving coming out of the corner (as I understand) so the combination should be pretty sweet!

[johnnyrod]

Pretty much everyone on the SV forums wants a SVR650 or whatever (or even better, SVR750). Suzuki seem determined to keep it a budget bike though, even the "Sport" version was just a full fairing. I know of at least one dealer over there (who races themeslves) who'll do you a GSXR front end and pretty much anything you want, nice but £$£$£$, effort always saves money!