fossilfuel

I think I understand where you're going with this. Just keep in mind that time to turn doesn't get longer, instead it requires more effort because you've reduced the time/distance equation. In other words, you need to get it done NOW as oppposed to n o w. Now, get out and ride you silly boy. I can't ride, not for a few more weeks. That's why I'm on the forum! I'm jones'n

You seem to be a little fixated on that their turn point my friend, do you think its more or less more importat than that Apex? Bullet Bullet, Why are you guys asking so many questions? I'm getting an ICE CREAM HEADACHE! It is not as much the turn point as the quick turn. I'm trying to incorporate it into my riding..do a better job at it. I have come to rely on the brakes when racing maybe more than I should. I want to see how fast I can quick turn to see if it helps my riding. To quick turn it seems like the turn point is important. I normally just trail brake as for into the turn as I can with out having a "come to Jesus" meeting. And please, would someone answer with a declarative statement.

I think how fast you can quick turn the bike is a limiiting factor. I also think that a lack of confidence will contribute to turning in earlier. What I am seeing is this, I am approaching an 80 mph apex. I never look at my speedometer so I am depending on knowing my gearing, my rpm's, my turn in point and how fast I can quick turn the bike. It seems to me that if I slow down to 80 to soon I am losing valuable time. So the later I wait and the faster I quick turn, the faster I go through the corner. X marks the spot...the turn point. What is the margin of error? The amount of force used to turn the bike quickly and the distance one covers is a variable. The faster one goes the harder it is to quick turn so the faster I go into a corner the longer it takes to turn the bike. My margin of error gets smaller and smaller as speed increases. The need to hit X becomes more and more critical. I have heard over and over from CSS that given the conditions are good and tires are warm, they have never seen someone turn to quickly...This is the point I want to work up to...the edge. Everything becomes more critical at this point, the braking, the turn, on the throttle. So I was just trying to get a since of what type of feedback I would encounter? Thanks for your response...Hub, Jay, Ace, Hotfoot

The line depends on the turn point and at what speed. The turn point depends on what line you want to take and at what speed. And the speed depends on arc of the turn and how quick you can turn the bike. Do SR's come into play here...yes For the most part I know what to do. It is just getting that last little bit..It is a learning experience and the challenge is to approach it systematically. I like to think out loud.

Jaybird, Question....I first started this post expecting to discover how something feels without actaully doing it. I wanted to press my speed to the limit at my turn in point, with the best possible quick turn and the best possible throttle control. I wanted to be at the edge and leave nothing on the table...But what I read was that the faster one goes, the earlier the turn in...that's where that statement came from. Those who go in really fast and maybe too fast turn in too early for the apex. I can see how that could happen.

To All, Wondering if CSS can help you achieve your goals? I've been invited to the WERA Grand National Finals in October. I would not have achieved this with out the help of the CSS staff and a personal committment to push myself to achieve. I'm going and I will "represent".

Bullet, Douglas is a new member and hasn't experienced the level of sarcastic civility that some on this forum possess. I see that you are in the teaching mode

Could you adopt me?

"What lets you know you are in too fast?" I end up off the track heading for the armco screaming like a little girl? but really, I don't hit the turn point, I turn in to early and late apex the turn? Just a quick question on this, not that I know but I may be misreading this statement! If you turn in too early would you not hit the apex earlier, then run wide? I would imagine a later turn point would create a late apex, then leave you plenty of room to drive out of the turn! I cant see how you can turn in too early and late apex, it doesn't make sense to me! Bobby You are correct so technically Jaybird did not copy my response so if anyone sees Jaybird let him know...I meant to say "early apex"...sorry for any confusion.

Jaybird, Are you copying my answers! You can't do that. What if someone came along and just read the last post? They would think this cat is brilliant.

Hotfoot, I'm good. I'm not getting into the fetal position just yet. I read in twist I that all things being equal getting turned and on the throttle as soon as possible gives one the best chance for stabilizing the bike and turning. Absent of any SR's with good body position, a text book quick turn and good throttle control what is the limiting factor of making the turn....

"What lets you know you are in too fast?" I end up off the track heading for the armco screaming like a little girl? but really, I don't hit the turn point, I turn in to early and EARLY apex the turn and go wide?

Hi Guy's, I have a question that might help me get over a corner speed fear. the question is if I have set my speed for a corner, quick turned and on the throttle with 40/60 weight ratio immediately after I have turned in, the only thing that theoretically should happen regardless if I am to fast is that my arc is to wide for the turn? I would like to test this in a few corners that I feel I could be faster in. And Adam06, Bullet, Cobie, Greg...please be nice.

I know it is fun to watch this spoof but there is something very interesting at about the 2:50 second mark. Watch Ben transition from the right hand apex of the chicane to the left hand apex. Really nicely done. I have paused and restarted it several times to see where he puts pressure on the bars. I can't see it.

Ben's secrets revealed...stay till the end

Apache, Why don't you send an e-mail to Cobie Fair and talk to him. I have told my story numerous times and I am sure most could repeat it by heart. But the tenants of any program have to start with a skill set to work up from. Everybody starts at level I. Does that mean you have to poke around the track like grandma, no. I am much faster now than I was for my first CSS school. I actually did level I over again this last school at VIR. So that would be my eleventh and it was actually good to review the "foundation" of good riding techniques. Nobody stopped me from riding hard as long as I was doing the drill I am a firm believer in the philosophy that things happen for a reason, that we choose different paths and they lead us in different directions. Maybe you could hit upon what you need to succeed down another path. But maybe, what you need could easily be missed by your apprehension to start at the beginning. P.S. I take it from Kevin and your response, you have never ridden Barber?

Consider: 1.) The rear brake is very inefficient because of the weight transfer to the front wheel under braking. 2.) Consider using front brake only and stopping in 200' With the help of the rear brake you would stop 8' quicker, 4% more efficient. 3.) Does anyone ever stop on a race track? Don't we just slow down? 4.) What is the risk vs reward? I would say more risk than reward on the track. I saw Carlos Checa backing it in to one of the turns at Nurinburgring this weekend. Can you brake like Carlos Checa? 5.) On the street in an emergency situation 8' might save your life 6.) Save the rear brake for when you run off the track, it then comes in real handy.

Apache, Welcome to the forum. I see that you are asking about instruction and whether it is worth it. You also stated that you are hitting a wall and that your times have fallen off a bit. I have taken several CSS classes with great result. I think that we all get to a point in our riding that we do pretty well at a certain level with a style of riding we think is the best or in some cases what we mimic with out the benefit of knowing why we are supposed to do it. There are some things you can learn from a track day "control rider" and there are many things you can't. Many people wouldn't hesitate to pay 600.00 dollars for an aftermarket slip on for their bike but hesitate to spend it on instruction that could save you from a serious injury or death. but I guess if you are not afraid of dying, think of it in terms of breaking those riding barriers that can put you in the top tier of your track organization or club racing. If I had it all to do over again, I would have spent even more on instruction. Of course, I'm not done yet. The critical path in achieving my goals is better technique because the faster you want to go the better your technique has to be. Hope you have more posts in the future...take care. P.S. I would really love to ride Mid-Ohio some day!

You can't get better if you don't keep trying. I am sure once you get the "feel", you will have a more positive outlook. Hey! you are out there doing it, way to go man.

Heath, I was there as well. You haven't seen anything yet. "Nirvana" for me was going from level II to III. And just remember, the better you get the more addicted you get....Good Luck.

We are drioving through Charlotte, NC. Wishing we had time to watch MotoGP this afternoon. Geoff May was at Barber yesterday "having some fun" and taking everybody to school. It was interesting in TOTW ll Keith talks about charging in to the corner and how counter productive this is. It was amazing watching Geoff May and how smooth he was, especially in turn 5. He was doing 1.29 lap times.

Thanks for the thought Jody. We had a great time at Barber today.

Going up through Birmingham, Al for a Barber Saturday quickie then drive up to VIR Sunday....See you guy's in the paddock Sunday night and just remember these three words.......ICE COLD BEER!...I'll drink what ever you've brought!

Jody, That was awful! Bullet is so right. That scenario is one of my worst fears of riding on the track. Not something you did but what someone does to you riding over their head or making bad decisions. My riding philosophy is to show respect to the rider in front of me. There is plenty of track time and plenty of places to pass so be considerate and we all make it home in one piece. Take care Jody. I hope you continue to ride. That was at VIR? What track organization sponsored that event? Was this Novice, Intermediate, Advanced? I went back and looked at this recording again and it is my opinion that he never saw you. But, most of the riders in that group were riding at a much slower pace than he was and no matter what your skill set is or how good you are....riding at that much faster pace in that group is not good for the other riders. If I am an expert rider and I am riding in Novice class then I need to slow my pace down so that I can anticipate and react to the riders around me. If on the other hand I am a Novice riding over my head then the coaches or controll riders should pull the guy over and have a little chat.

Are those slicks? Yes, they are slicks...I love those tires.