Jaybird180

He should get the save of the decade award. good save but look at this! http://videos.streetfire.net/video/BEST-RE...EVER_201595.htm Now that was cool....one in a million chance at best LOLOLOLOL

IIRC, thumb brakes were invented out of necessity. I dont' recall who it was developed for but the necessity was due to foot injury. IIRC it's mentiond on the movie FASTER. Both of the guys mentioned that used the thumb brake were injured at the time they tried them.

He should get the save of the decade award.

Why dont you want to spin up the rear like those guys? If you could, would you? In motor bike riding all areas are free exploration, no one can tell you where the edge of the limits are, otherwise we would all be racers! I should have stated that spinning the rear wasn't a goal, but it would be great to have control over that aspect of riding...just like being good at wheelies and stoppies- more tools in the toolbag.

1) Yes see bellow 2) I assume it is fun as hell. Okay, someone break it down for me: why is his wheel turned outside the corner?

Hi Stu. Welcome back. Please allow me to introduce myself. I've read many of your posts. Glad to have you back on the forum.

Subscribing to this thread

I'll second that. Persistence triumphs when talent gets lazy.

Erm... soo... should we assume your point is that you think he was backing it in for "intimidation"? Even though it slowed him down? As a chess player, I've used it to good effect when I've made enough mistakes to know I should loose. There's a 50% chance I can force an error from my opponent. Josh knew he had a solid 4th; IIRC 5th was too far back, so he had nothing to loose. He now had his sights set on the podium. Uh... I'm not following you. Was that a yes or a no? Well, we can either 1- Ask him 2- Speculate about the possible reasons why given his tactical situation he would want to do such a thing Take your pick. Sorry I won't be able to flesh it out with you. I have a work-related task to finish before I leave for the holiday. I'll check back after you go through a few iterations on the subject. Cheers J

Erm... soo... should we assume your point is that you think he was backing it in for "intimidation"? Even though it slowed him down? As a chess player, I've used it to good effect when I've made enough mistakes to know I should loose. There's a 50% chance I can force an error from my opponent. Josh knew he had a solid 4th; IIRC 5th was too far back, so he had nothing to loose. He now had his sights set on the podium.

Yes, Josh's bike was clearly underpowered comparatively. He rode a gallant ride to a hard fought 4th place. I've seen a lot of racers use the back it in style for intimidation and Josh is no stranger to it.

Cause the chase bike was still hurting from gas prices and was putting around the corners (LOL)

Your idea of smooth is relative to....?

Jake Zemke and Josh Herrin do it and do it well. Nicky Hayden will do it when he's really hanging it out and going for the gusto.

Why did you rehash it if you didn't want to rehash it? In any case, you addressed the post/question to me. I figured I didn't explain it well enough last time. Next time I'll know better and just send you a link to a previous post... lol. How do you figure difficulty of implementation is not a factor in deciding to use it? Um... what? And yes, it was ME who answered you in the very first reply that maintenance throttle in the way you described it was good for slow lazy turns but would make a quick flick impossible. Maybe you should re-read the thread and that way you won't need to re-hash things... lol. Racer, the post wasn't directed at you per se, but you was willing to debate the opposing side with me and for that I thank you and Cobie. It's very often and necessary that the truth is sifted out of vigorous debate until we're left with definitive yes/no answers. It was HOTFOOT's post #23 that I was referring to that I think helped me to see your and Cobie's explanation a bit better. And yes, I stand behind what I said about difficulty. Do we give up becuse it's difficult? If that were the case there would be no glory in a championship or working hard to be the best at anything.

Jay, I still do not have a copy of Soft Science. If someone out there has a copy, please search it for references to raising the idle and why one would do that. Allegedly it is in there and might have some bearing here. Otherwise... I (and Cobie) already explained this. AFAIK, you are misinterpreting what Keith is trying to say in point #12. It boils down to the use of the word "at" in the first sentence. I think it would read better if he said "after". Interpreting it as cracking the throttle during the flick goes against everything I have ever heard him say or teach and everything I have learned and experienced in over a decade of racing. Unless Keith drops in and explains it differently, that is what I am going with. Here is point #12 with added emphasis and clarification to help you understand what I believe Keith is saying: *** The transition I believe Keith is referring to is the "exact roll on", the transition from being 'off' the throttle to being 'on' the throttle. That is the subject of the whole paragraph: "coordinating the exact roll on". I do not think he is saying that there is an optimum open state of the throttle (ie. maintenance throttle) when you drop a bike into a turn quickly. He is saying that the intial "cracking" of the throttle is very important to maintain stability, ie. not whack it open, not throw all the weight rearward at once. But rather smoothly transferring weight. You do not want to be on the gas when you drop a bike quickly into a turn. That said, I could be completely wrong. If Keith is saying you should have the equivalent of 3000 rpm idle craked on when you flick the bike... well... When you raise the idle, what you are doing is opening the butterfly throttle valves more. The amount of movement it takes to get that idle to raise 2000 rpm at idle is TINY. Very small. 2-3 millimeters of rotation. Try to do it with your hand. Stand next to your idling bike and using the throttle, raise the idle to 3000 rpm. Hold it there. Can you do it? Can you do it whenthebikeisonthefrontwheelwithahandfulofbrakeatsixtymilesperhourrightafteryouf inishdownshiftingandbeforeyoucountersteer? Because reading that sentence is about what it feels like at race speed. I honestly don't think I am capable of accurately cracking the throttle 2-3 mm and holding it there as I quick flick drop the bike into a corner at speed. And that is the only thing I can think of. Which is exactly what I said before. So... why don't you send Keith a personal message and ask him? racer I don't disagree with the explanation, however as previously stated: difficulty of implementation is not a factor in deciding if an idea is good and the principle is sound. However, someone posted a good reply (sorry if I forget the name, not giving credit isn't intentional) that stated that maintenance throttle worked for him until he got faster, then it became an obstacle to quicker flicks. Again, I'm not desirous of rehashing it again. I'll let you know if it becomes an obstacle for me when I pickup more corner speed. Or maybe I'll just raise my idle like many, many successful racers do (that's a hint). I did take your advice and PM'd Mr. Code. If he made an error that needs correction, then he will (perhaps)

Keith has some very good diagrams and explanations in Twist II about this exact point. Read up on the "hook turn" and the idea that the faster you get to full lean the less you need to lean for the rest of the turn. With the front compressed, the the steering angle is steeper, hence the turn in is sharper. Hence, your flick or hook will be tighter and, off gas, you travel less distance than on gas while turning in, hence, by definition, a tighter turn in and less lean angle needed and more speed potential for the rest of the turn at lean. Check it out. PS - We've done the experiments you suggested, ie. trying the turn both on and off gas at turn in... for several decades now. Really. We aren't just guessing or playing what if games. We know the answer. Just trying to help. r Hate to rehash but see pt #12. That's all I was trying to say http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=540

I don't want to spin the rear or do an Aaron Yates or Garry McCoy. I just want to know where the limit is and what it feels like. If I know that then I know that every area up to that is free exploration.

Hi Jay I used to have a cbr600f which i believe is the UK version of your F4i, I now have a cbr600rr which I am unable to compare as my riding style has changed so much since joining this forum but both bikes are not that different on paper! Since joining this forum the first thing I focused on was throttle control, it is still my main focus even when practicing everything else a big margin of my attention is on throttle control. I know you will have read this but go over it again http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=540 especially 8. Being willing to experiment with roll-on rates. The right wrist often has its own idea of how quickly to roll-on. This is a bit scary to experiment with but worthwhile to conquer. working on this gave me so much more exit speed than I thought possible and the back would not slide, at the time I had pilot power 2cts on my bike, and the harder I pushed the more they seemed to grip, I was getting to a point where I wanted it to slide, was getting more confident, rolling on faster all the time until it let go on a mountain road near my house, I just thought wow! it felt like the back stepped out loads but was probably not even an inch, That was a riding breakthrough for me, I have managed to repeat it a few times since so yes you can slide a 600 but you have to work up to it and find where the limit of grip is for yourself! always obey the rules of throttle control and always make sure you are relaxed, then push through the barrier! ACE, you're my hero! (big cheesy smile) Not sure if it's the same, but I have experienced (in a now fond and distant memory) at ViR Patriot drifting at exit at WOT. Not sure if it slid or not, I didn't go back to check for darkies or anything. It was repeatable for the entire session, then I packed up and went home giggly inside. Now like a crackhead, I haven't been right since. And I've been constantly let down looking for that high again.

The difference between a little GP bike and a four stroke pig in action. Now, who thinks we should do away with two strokes? But weren't they both on R6's?

Off Topic: Daytona 200 is won/lost in the pits. IIRC, they have always run slicks in the 200 and for the last few years have allowed special rules just for tire safety concerns at Daytona and is the reason the track was reconfigured. Oh, aye. They do run slicks, but, they also have special tires made just for Daytona. That's where the whole dual compound thing started I think. Longer lasting compounds and left side harder for the banking. They even have triple compound tires now.

Gotcha Off Topic: Daytona 200 is won/lost in the pits. IIRC, they have always run slicks in the 200 and for the last few years have allowed special rules just for tire safety concerns at Daytona and is the reason the track was reconfigured.

Is he following THE DOCTOR or just someone wearing replica leathers? Not Rossi. I look for track video's before they race on TV so I can have an understanding of them. Mac sort of limits me as to which ones I can watch, but this one is wicked. I didn't even notice the leathers. To the right it says who it is. I think that's the chase bike. It could be Josh Herrin. He has Lil Bit on his butt in the same color scheme as Rossi. Did anyone notice in the video how long it took the chase bike to get on the gas after turn-in? Seemed like an eternity.

Perhaps I should have stated, not that basic. I've heard the term trackday tire used in reference to my PP's. Are they not the same as a DOT Race tire or are they a street tire, with repli-race marketing?

Okay, tires 101 for me here: What's a DOT Race tire? I've heard the term used and not sure what it is? If possible, please speak in Michelin terms so I will be able to relate (I run Pilot Powers).