csmith12

To add to the above - if you come in too fast or too slow on the entry, what happens to your throttle control? Thanks I am always surprised when I look at my lap times from races. The fastest ones are almost always at the end, when we ride at our worst or the most mistakes happen. How we make it all work always brings a smile to my face. EDIT: Not sure what is going on with this post. lol

I don't see it as you're highjacking your own thread. When tired, not using reference points is a good one, I feel there is something more common though. If you're not holding on with your core/legs, what does a rider have to hang on with? Lemme ask you this. On those long sweepers, bowl corners and other hairpins, feeling idle with nothing to do for a few moments? Would adding a few more reference points to help stay on line give you the confidence to keep a steady throttle roll? And speaking of lines... What is the #1 reason for throttle issues mid corner? If you're not hitting your reference points how do you know you're on a good line? There are many lines through a corner, the good ones follow rule #1. Yep, easy to lose sight of things near the end of the race, especially while focusing extra attention on the rider ahead, setting up the next pass... all while tired.

Well sure... but gas it with control ya know and with regard to riding conditions. "The standard solution to a pushing front end, is getting back on the gas." Let's recap what we have so far; Don't chop it Pick the bike up a bit Put more body mass to the inside Ensure good throttle control Now let's think about being tired on lap 9 of a 12 lap sprint or minute 41 during your endurance race. What other common reaction/sr comes and may creep up on a rider as their core get's tired and will it cause slides?

bingo - that's it in a nutshell. I think it's the quintessential dilemma for most aspiring riders: how much faster can I go before it results in disaster? If it truly ISN'T a knife-edge limit, then I guess it comes down to the combination of a machine that's set up in a way that lessens the abruptness of the loss of traction (when that slip vs feel non-linearity becomes uncomfortably exponential), and a rider's willingness and ability to ride through it. the last part is why is finally decided to cough up the big bucks for two days at CSS at Laguna. I guess I was just interested in first hand testimonial from guys/gals that do ride deep in that slip zone. What do they do? DIRT For me, dirt did wonders for my tightness on the bike while sliding around. Nelson helped tremendously as well. Good luck at Laguna!

Your answer can be found by knowing what is causing the front to push to begin with. So if a rider pushes their limits to corner speed, what would be a common side effect (or sr) of that? Chopping it has already been mentioned but can it be more subtle? Would a loaded front and cause pushing? Let me give you a hint by asking another question; Is good throttle control defined as "maybe just a touch"?

I am not really all that picky and I try to ride fairly light in the saddle anyway. For me, in a perfect world, the seat would be a bit on the slick side to help facilitate a slide across the seat without lifting my bumm to compensate for seat grip. I am fine with gripping with the legs. I would alsp prefer a seat that has some amount of cushion, I simply just don't want all the extra feedback that comes through the seat. Some is fine, too much is not. I get my feeling from center mass, grip on the tank and heals on the swingarm and a little bit through the seat and I am fine with that. More important for me is the angle of the seat. I feel it's right for me when I have to work to sit up without the seat trying to push me forward, it lets me be more comfortable in the tuck and in cornering position. ie, If I have to work harder to sit up, then I most likely will not have to work as hard to get into a more aggressive riding position.

I see it as a circle. When one first tries to ride a 2 wheeled vehicle, the perception of traction is a bit "sketchy". As experience grows so does that acceptance of available traction. The rider then learns to maximize traction per conditions through purposeful inputs that result in predictable and desired outcomes. Fast forward, to advanced group track days and racing.... The same feelings of loose traction return as a rider approaches the edge of the envelope or the combo of rider/bike/tarmac. To win a race do you have to be "fast"? No, you just have to be faster than 2nd place. One can win while being 10 seconds off lap record pace while completely in control, no major slides or any strange pushing or skips from either the front or the back. Other times, you have to ride at your very best and to the very edge of one's abilities to hold a position in the lead group. It's these days where sliding and pushing occurs, because fast is relative to your fellow track occupants "that day". Honestly though, there is always a bit of slippage here and there, most of it goes unnoticed. Other days, the bike is more vocal than a drama queen. So one must ask themselves, if the bike didn't change.... what did?

Google vids of Nelson Ledges in OH. ijs.....

Welcome Izapp! Yes, it has been too long. I will be at Mid-O a lot next season, maybe see ya there. I am only an active member on 3 forums. This is one of them but I am not all that active (poster) here, only when I have value to add. If you wanna ride Laguna, do not wait to long to register lol.

Build a shrine now!!! Pay homage to it as needed, but the more the better. Good luck at Sonoma!

Welcome!

For me, their main purpose is to adjust ergos. I adjust to get my knee into the most fitting and comfortable place on the tank to get a good lock on the bike. Next would be overall bike feel and boot grip, followed by ground clearance. Depending on the bike, ground clearance moves way up on the list, like a ninja 250, the stockers are just too low to really get some good lean going on. On the flip side, I have no problems with lean/feel/grip on the stock rearsets on my 06 r6. I am also lucky that my knee is dug into the lip fairly well too. And if you buy some, consider a spare peg or two with your order.

^^^^ this kinda... but with some prepwork ahead of time. Having raced at Nelson Ledges, lovingly called "the only paved MX course in the US", ensure your suspension is working where it needs to be and ride those corners as normal, just be loose and smooth. Sure, the bike will move around a bit but it's no big thing really. The feedback you get as a rider is more amplified than what the bike realistically cares about, especially if you're riding tight. If stuff get's really nasty, best alter the line... after all, there is always more than one good line through a corner. You know how to find them right? What is the measure you have found a good line? Also, not all tracks are equal. Some.... require you to turn a knob on your suspension to help with bumps, ripples or flat out potholes. Ask the coaches/vets in the paddock, someone is sure to help. The same setup is not perfect for every track.

As a ninja 250 racer, we are at WOT on entry and throughout many kinks and some full corners. Sometimes the lean is not anything to even worry about, other times the lean is already at pretty steep but not anywhere near the edge of the tire. Nearly every track I race has a kink in the straight or some turn made at WOT; Nelson Ledges OH - right kink in the back straight at WOT, it has a dip in the pavement there as well for added fun!!! Mid-Ohio OH - right kink in the back staight at WOT on just about every bike on the track - smaller cc's up to 1000's JenningsGP FL - left kink near the start of the back straight at WOT, on a 600-750's pin it on the exit of turn 1 all the way to turn 3. JenningsGP FL - turn 12 (left), most riders are at WOT on entry and throughout, minimal lean here Pitrace PA - 2 kinks (1 left and 1 right) in the back straight at WOT on just about everything 750 cc's or less, both kinks are with enough lean to drag a knee at race pace Thompson CT - turn 10, hard right hander at WOT all the way to turn 1, at the exit of turn 10 is a huge crest, 600's can catch 2 wheeled air with a bit of lean if the rider is brave enough to keep it pinned Sometimes the bike will give a bit of negative feedback, but it's normally not a traction problem either. It takes a very hard countersteer to get the bike to turn while hard on the throttle, especially on the bigger bikes. After that steering input, you better get back to being loose and no input on the bars or the bike may start to chatter a bit. I normally don't start the day riding through these turns at WOT, I let the track "come in" a bit and feel out the traction available before pushing through at WOT. If I feel it, I go there. If I don't feel it, I roll off/flatten the throttle a little to compensate for the available traction (wet/dry) or just to keep me in 100% control. Imho, this is where your visual skills will shine very brightly. Many kinks look much sharper of a turn than they really are and open up wide on exit. If your reference points are far enough out (relative to your speed), a rider can see a WOT line. That line normally takes me from edge to edge of the track (the candy on the inside apex to the candy on the outside exit).

Gratz!

I learned a fair bit by having a friend that does setups, basically an apprenticeship. After a while, I started doing baselines, then when on from there. I currently just "hang out" at a local race shop when I have the time. I read and research for hours and hours on different topics and when the race shop is doing the work, I connect the dots and ask questions. It's not ideal, but free. hahahahahahahaha

Depends on the quality of the slipper. The sock r6 one kinda sucks but works. There are some mods to make it work better but meh.

Lol, don't hold your breath on the vid, I currently don't own a vtwin. +1 on the relax part

Sliding the fingers across the lever is the most common way. If you can't get it with your due diligence of practice, then perhaps your grip is to tight on the bars to start with. Also, you don't have to be going fast to practice this technique. It's grip and timing specific, not relative to speed. The real challenge is to blip to 1st on a vtwin.

Here is an exercise that I had my kids do when they were 15 in prep for being competent drivers. Get a maze book, the more mazes the better. Start with BIG, easy to complete mazes. When doing the maze, do not focus on the point of the pen/pencil. That is reserved for peripheral vision. The faster you can solve the mazes, the better your wide view skill is getting.

It takes some time to train the mind to do this. It's not supposed to be a lack of focus, but instead a "spreading" of focus. I like to think of it as radar, there are a few blips on the radar that are more important than others, but I still need to be aware of the other minor points that factor into decisions. Overall imho, the point of wide view is to help you not tunnel down on one or two things specifically. A flawless two step execution is near impossible without a good handle on a wide field of view.

If your face almost hits the front fender and you save it, you are worthy.

^^^ yes sir, it would help. been there done that. Surprise decreasing radius? A hook turn just might save you.

I have craved 180 ever since my ride on the rc8. I just have to be able to afford one.