Hotfoot
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Posts posted by Hotfoot
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Love the story above, YellowDuck! Entertaining and educational.
I recall my husband wrestling with a problem on his Ducati, he was getting some kind of rear wheel hop under heavy braking at the end of a straight; he thought it was from a rear suspension problem. Eventually he realized that that particular track had three big rolling bumps at the end of the straight that you couldn't see. They weren't huge but they were enough to bounce the lightened rear wheel off the ground. It wasn't the bike, it was just bumpy in that spot!The first time I rode at Barber I thought my front wheel was out of balance, it had a weird vibration in front. I asked a mechanic, who politely informed me that the track is a bit ripply going up the hill from turn 3 and since you are hard on the gas there the front wheel floats across those ripples and makes it feel strange. Apparently I was not the first person to ask that sort of question!
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Really good question asked and I feel that it's a good place for a segway into my question:
I did L1/L2 several years ago, then I haven't ridden much since. CSS was my last time on the track. I remember some of the experience but not much of the lessons learned. I'm not really sure I improved in any measurable area as I spent a considerable amount of the time distracted with struggling to get comfortable with the Kawasaki ZX-6R and dealing with back pains from a prior accident.
My thoughts are retaking L1/L2 or going toward L3/L4 and taking advantage of the specialized coaching during L4.
I own the 3 books by KC and the Twist I DVD (last review of the material was prior to L1/L2), haven't purchased II DVD yet. Is there enough material in the newest DVD to prep me for L3/L4?
The Twist II DVD is really great, and it definitely would help prepare you. Taking L1/2 over again versus 3/4 is up to you; in any case if a coach sees a deficiency in an earlier skill (rider not 2-stepping, for example), he/she will bring that to your attention and re-explain it if needed - but that can be a distraction from working on the current drill assigned in the L3 classroom.
Level 3 is focused on rider relationship to bike, lots of time spent on body position, getting anchored, and how to move around on the bike; if that is the thing you are most interested in focusing on and improving, go for Level 3. If, however, you feel like you missed some stuff in Level 1 & 2, you might get a LOT of benefit from sitting through the classroom sessions again and focusing specifically on those drills. Additionally the classroom material is updated constantly; I remember when you took L 1&2 and I know there is some new stuff in the classroom sessions, particularly more use of video and slideshow photos to illustrate specific points, especially in Level 2, and those tools are REALLY helpful.
I would never feel as though it was a waste of time to sit through L 1 and L2 classroom again - even as a coach and multiple-time L4 student I still do it whenever I get a chance, I always pick up something new or find a new way to apply something based on my current skill/speed level (as opposed to what it was the FIRST time I took L 1&2 and was a little overwhelmed by all the new stuff).
In Level 4, the program will be custom-tailored to you, but it is extremely common to end up working on L1 or L2 skills.
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I think the aversion to rear brake on track comes from two things - the fact that when the rear wheel is in the air, the rear brake doesn't work, and also the fact that an error with the rear brake in a turn can launch you dramatically in the air.
When braking heavily on the track on a full sport bike, there is very little weight on the rear tire, so putting the right amount of pressure on the rear brake to get some braking without locking it up takes a lot of attention, and that attention is usually better spent on other things.
On modern sport bikes in dry conditions it is absolutely possible to lift the rear wheel under braking, without sliding the front, and that can create a problem for ABS, because it can reduce front braking to get the rear wheel back down, and it is not a nice feeling if you are running out of track and the brake begins to release on you! Lots of racers turn off the ABS after experiencing that, including me.
The newer BMWs have a lot of electronic adjustability and that may have handled that problem.
Having said all that, I DO think ABS is great for street riding and for most riders on track, too.
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Wow, what a fantastic few days we just had at Barber Motorsports Park! The place is just absolutely beautiful and the track is fun, flowing, and challenging. We had great weather and I had a great time coaching, my students were terrific and we had a ton of familiar faces returning from prior years, which we love to see.
I spent particular attention at this school to my hook turn and my quickturn, the track has two challenging tight turns that lead into places for strong drives and I had great success by improving my application of those two skills in those areas.
Bonus, I got to meet PittsDriver from the forum, and some other forum regulars were there, too - you know who you are!
Was anyone else form the forum there? Let us know how your school went - even better if it is your first time posting up!
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The faster you go, the less lean can be used before you start to slide.
I have to disagree with you on this point Eirik, the cornering forces generated by a 60° lean angle will be the same at 40 and 140, the difference will be the radius of the resulting line
For any given speed you can increase or decrease the lean angle of the BIKE by changing your body position. You can make a tight circle at low speed with LOTS of lean if you push the bike down under you and put your body weight on the 'wrong' side of the bike (towards the outside of the curve).
T, you are talking combined center of gravity of bike and rider, which gives you a fixed lean angle for a given speed, but take your bicycle or motorbike out in some parking lot circles and play with body position and counter leaning and it quickly becomes clear how you can adjust lean angles and circle diameter without changing speed.
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Thanks Laura, I appreciate you taking the time to explain all of the things that go into making this kind of decision. A fair amount of it applies to men as well and will help me make my decisions about racing going forward. Being a track enthusiast is one thing and racing is entirely another!
A little more on this point - I did discover that racing is quite a bit more expensive than track days. I didn't realize how much more wear and tear there is on the bikes; when I was just doing light track days on a stock bike I didn't have to replace the clutch, refresh/rebuild the suspension, replace brake pads often, etc., and I got 4-6 days from a set of tires. I didn't mess with generator, tire warmers, stands, carrying a pile of spare everything (pegs, bars, sliders, etc.), race fairings, safety wiring, race exhaust, race fuel, Dzus fasteners, and so on.
There are cheaper ways to race, of course - doesn't cost much to race a stock Ninja 250, for example - but trying to be competitive on a 600 or 1000cc bike can get expensive quickly. A 1000cc bike rips through a set of tires in just a few races (common to change tires every day and sometimes between races) and the race tires are expensive.
I'm not trying to be discouraging, there are always ways to do it on a budget, but when I first started I really wasn't aware of the myriad of new expenses that would crop up as part of running a race season so I am just giving you a heads up so you can look into it and start out more informed that I was.
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A highly interesting observation.....thanks Eirik. Has anyone on the forum dragged an elbow though?
Oh, sure, I have. Elbow, shoulder, hip...
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I sure look forward to reading about BOTH of your race seasons. YellowDuck, I really enjoyed your race blog last year and I'm glad you negotiated your way back on the bike.
Thanks so much! I'm starting to get excited about that first race in the fall. I hardly know what to expect but I know its going to be exciting and exhilarating. I also have some healthy fear. Additionally, I'm really glad you encouraged me to do the blog. I just need to start writing and send you all the link. I'm going save the rest of my comments for the blog. I did, however, want to offer up my gratitude to you again for being such a great example in racing, as a coach, and a moderator for everyone. One question (a little off topic, but I'm pretty sure Hugh will be interested and not mind) that I have for you is what do you think is holding back women in racing and getting to the GP level? I know there is always still the glass ceiling in most professions, and also, especially in the more distant past, a sheer lack of interest. What do you think? Thanks!
Thank you for your kind words, I really enjoy coaching and helping out with the forum, the more questions the better!
It's tough to answer the question about what is holding women back; especially since I am one of the ones that IS out there racing.
I can tell you two things that keep me from trying to advance farther - one is age, I started riding in my late thirties, and the other is finances - racing is expensive and I can earn a lot more money doing other things. Plus there isn't much job security for a racer - if you get hurt and can't ride, you're out of a job!I think racing is more appealing to boys than girls overall, just because boys are boys - motorcycles are cool, racing is cool, great way to impress women, plus it is daring and competitive and dangerous and I think all those things appeal to men more than women.
It's not the easiest sport for a young girl to get into; parents tend not to want their little princesses risking their necks, plus the bikes are tall and tend to be a bit heavy for ladies, women's gear is hard to find, and the racetrack environment is not terribly female friendly. You definitely have to be willing to be in a man's world - with sweat and grease and bad language - and you can't expect to be coddled, you better be able to pull your own weight, and that can be intimidating.
I do notice that in motorcycles (as in most areas) the people who are the MOST competent also tend to be the most open-minded and welcoming. The owners and coaches at CSS, for example, have always been extremely supportive and they made me feel very welcome from my very first day on a racetrack; that is a huge reason why I got into it and kept at it.
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So lets turn this around. Hotfoot. How do you deal with distractions and stress at the track that can negatively affect your riding? I would love to add some extra things to my list that will allow me to relax, observe and ride without the stress.
Hm, interesting question. If I am just at a trackday and something is distracting me, I would typically either slow down and try to think it through and solve it; for example, if I am worried that my tires are cold I would probably just slow down, pay attention to it better understand the situation, then quit worrying about it (like getting acquainted with the tar snake and then letting it go). Or if it was something like a flapping helmet strap I'd just pull in and fix it rather than let it keep affecting my ride.
However, if I am coaching or racing, it may not be acceptable to me to slow down or possible to stop, in which case I would simply acknowledge the discomfort (dammit, I forgot my earplugs!) and then put it away in the back of my mind and force myself to concentrate on the track in front of me instead of the item distracting me.
Here's a wonderfully concise and useful bit of wisdom from Keith: "Look, don't think." If I ever find myself distracted while I am riding, that is what I tell myself to do, and it really, really works.
One of my biggest challenges in the past (and even now, sometimes) has been worrying about "how I am doing", either for my own sake or because someone (like possibly Keith) is following me and I want to make sure my riding looks good! I used to start making errors as soon as I started worrying about that and now I just tell myself to LOOK at the track and that helps me break out of that introverted thinking-too-much problem.
Some other routine things I do to help minimize distractions are: get ready early for races, have all my gear right at hand and know exactly where everything is, check my warmers religiously to make sure they are on so I don't get surprised, and try to always stay in the "I do this for fun" frame of mind instead of putting too much importance on any one race, event, or performance.
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What sorts of things make you look down, or too close to the front of the bike? I think every rider, at some point, experiences a strong urge to look down at the controls, or at the ground in front of the bike - especially when first learning to ride a bike, when just operating the controls (like the clutch!) takes a lot of attention.
What does it to you?
For me, it happens when the bike does something unexpected - makes a weird noise, for example - I have an immediate powerful urge to look DOWN at the bike. I also have a hard time not looking too long at pavement "snakes" when riding on the street.
What about you?
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I sure look forward to reading about BOTH of your race seasons. YellowDuck, I really enjoyed your race blog last year and I'm glad you negotiated your way back on the bike.
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... in fact, I can't countersteer at all, only body steer and peg weighting.
Sorry for the diversion from the great advice you are receiving but...I don't believe you. Seriously, I don't. Of course you are countersteering somewhat. It's practically impossible to steer a motorcycle at all without countersteering. You just aren't doing it very aggressively at present.
I'm going to play moderator here and intervene on this one. I don't think rikker is trying to argue that countersteering doesn't work - just that he is having difficulty DOING it right now. Certainly if a rider is unwilling to turn the bike quickly, he won't be willing to make a conscious, decisive steering input at the bars.
Let's give him a break for the moment; I suspect that once the underlying issue is resolved he will be able and willing to countersteer the bike with no trouble at all.
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That is so cool! Can't wait to see it in person.
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Can you give an example of point 3, p. 76 of Twist II?
The point states that track positioning is useful when: " A slow turn-in, under-braking turn entry when positioning the bike quickly for the turn point could overload the front tire and cause the front wheel to lock".
I understand over-braking while turning will cause a loss of traction, or over-braking can lock up the front wheel, but I'm not understanding this statement. The statement gives me visions of beginning a fast turn early and trail braking (slow turn-in) , positioning the bike for a turning point then making a quick turn in a late apex, decreasing radius turn. Not sure.
Has this cleared up for you? Your own interpretation is a valid one. These statements about track positioning sometimes helps students clear up some confusion about a single, quick steering action. In class we talk about a single steering input as the goal in most turns, but there are exceptions, and these points are describing those.
An example I can think of is a very fast entry turn (after a straightaway, for example) with a late apex. Since it is a fast entry turn but a late apex, the priority is on carrying speed as long as possible down the straight, so you may still be hard on the brakes at the entry of the turn, so a quick-turn could overload the front. Instead you might make a gradual turn at the entry ("bend it in") while you are still slowing down on the brakes. You would be setting the entry speed for your "real" turn point, later in the turn, and that would be your real steering input.
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I try to use the 2-step drill but I was lost when to look forward.
No ref. points at all... completely forgot this.
And never looked at the apex (try do use the 2-step and didnt look to the apex)
OK. So... if you don't have a point picked out for an apex AND haven't looked in toward the apex, you don't really have any info about where you want the bike to go - so how confident will your quickturn be?
This is a good review exercise for forum members, what is the timing on 2-step? When should you spot your turn point and when should you look in to the apex?
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Holy thread revival Batman...
Well, after almost 1 year and a half 100% away from the track due a new job and my 1yo daughter, just did my second trackday in 2015 and the sh*t is f'up.
I can't carry any cornerspeed because I have zero confidence to countersteer/quickflick... in fact, I can't countersteer at all, only body steer and peg weighting.
Please, help me out to increase my quick flick rate... what drills can I try within my next trackday? I'm starting over again, that sucks a lot because I was used to ride in the advanced group and now I look like an old lady among the beginers.
I agree with the posts above: relax, don't put so much pressure on yourself, read the book again, etc. - but we can talk about some drills to work on. You specifically mentioned no confidence in steering the bike. Do you recall, as you were entering corners, what your eyes were doing? Were you able to use the 2-step drill to control the timing of your look-in? Did you have reference points chosen for turn point and apex for each turn, and were you able to look in to the apex early enough to know how much to turn the bike?
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Holy . Glad to hear you made it through fine and WOW, THANKS FOR POSTING THIS AWESOME CHART!! This is really, really cool.
Good job for riding it through without panic braking, stiffening up on the bars, etc., just letting the bike do its thing.
Really interesting to see what the bike's electronics did in this situation.
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Yeah, I'm finding this bike is so much nicer to ride and I don't have to spend endless time tweaking things to get it feeling right. Very glad I decided to make the jump. And a good chunk of my mods still fit the new bike so I can bring them with me.
Awesome! Congrats! I sat through a Nate Kern presentation over the weekend about the features of the new bike and it was really something hearing him talk about the geometry and chassis changes and how much he likes the changes. The electronics are incredible, too, of course. The bike is very accommodating and pleasant to ride.
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I have a Starlane GPS timer. It has section times (which you can set however you want) and it flashes a light at me when I get a best segment time in a section (or a best overall lap). I use that for immediate feedback to try different lines through a corner or section; sometimes it can be hard to judge whether a shorter tighter line is better or a faster wider line, for example.
Which version do you have?
I have the Athon XS
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I have a Starlane GPS timer. It has section times (which you can set however you want) and it flashes a light at me when I get a best segment time in a section (or a best overall lap). I use that for immediate feedback to try different lines through a corner or section; sometimes it can be hard to judge whether a shorter tighter line is better or a faster wider line, for example.
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WOW, that is really interesting and it is GREAT that you spotted it! Thanks for posting this update.
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Eric, it might be simpler just to wait for class. The tire wear doesn't look bad at all, and the mechanic at the school can give you feedback on your suspension settings. Most likely your riding will change a lot over the course of the day, so it may be a waste of effort to try to dial in your suspension now - your riding pace and style might be quite different after school and require different settings anyway.
Check in with the mechanic early in the morning, find out when would be a good time to check the bike, and he can look at what your settings are and make recommendations.
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I have been wondering if a gripper seat would help with feeling "locked on the bike" during cornering.
My seat is very slippery on the F4i. Although I can lock my outside leg into the tank and love my Stompgrips and rearsets, I feel like I could use some addidtional under-butt grip. I am tempted to try something like a sheet of black Con-Tact (think shelf liner) over the OEM seat cover.
Aftermarket seat cover options for my bike are almost non-existent. I suppose I could take it to an upholsterer, but that would probably cost a good bit.
The slidey seat does make transitions easier, though. Pulling back across with the leg requires almost no butt lift and it keeps the bike from getting upset.
Any ideas?
Something really simple and non-damaging to apply is a product made for horseback riding called Saddle Stick. It is a wax-like material that makes leather tackier, helping leather boots grip better on leather saddles. It can be used on other materials. It works great to make your bike seat less slick, and can be cleaned off if you don't like it. It's a good way to try improving the grip without making any permanent or damaging changes.
It looks like the stuff I have used in the past is now called Sekur-grip:
Or, you can go to a foam seat - just buy seat foam and shape it yourself, it can be cut to fit then sanded for final shaping, this is what we do for racing. It can be applied instead of your seat (if there is a decent mounting surface) or maybe you can paste it over your OEM seat. This is what I use:
http://www.airtech-streamlining.com/miscpages/foam.htm
Here's a tip from experience - don't use anything too abrasive to make your seat sticker - I tried a grip tape on a seat once and it abraded and damaged my leathers.
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Good job, everyone - all the answers were some variant of "stop pushing on the bar" and that is correct.
I recall my husband wrestling with a problem on his Ducati, he was getting some kind of rear wheel hop under heavy braking at the end of a straight; he thought it was from a rear suspension problem. Eventually he realized that that particular track had three big rolling bumps at the end of the straight that you couldn't see. They weren't huge but they were enough to bounce the lightened rear wheel off the ground. It wasn't the bike, it was just bumpy in that spot!
My Racing Blog
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
Finally got around to reading this, I love these blog posts! Very entertaining, and it is fun to keep tabs on how it is going for your team. (My favorite part - having done some endurance racing myself - was the "universal hand signal" part, laughed aloud over that.)
Bummer about your fancy digs going away, I would hate to have to tent it on a cold night before a race.
Great job on the last race and congrats on your podium finish! (Also, good job keeping it upright during the cold and slick conditions during your practices.)