Hotfoot
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Posts posted by Hotfoot
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If I attend the two day school at NJMP on 5/20-5/21, is it guaranteed that I will be able to learn on all specialty bikes (e.g. braking bike, sliding bike, etc)? Thanks.
No, you are not guaranteed to be able to ride all the specialty bikes. The slide bike cannot be run at NJMP, there is not enough room to run it, so that one will for sure not be available. Weather and time constraints can also affect availability of the specialty bikes; some cannot be run in the rain, etc. First priority will be to get everyone through the steering drill and lean bike, then after that the other bikes may become available for you to ride.
You will be spending a LOT of time on track (and the rest is in the classroom), it is a very busy day! Some riders choose to forego some track time to get on the brake rig, which is advisable if your heart is really set on riding it OR if you or your coach spot a problem with braking that could be best handled by riding the brake bike.
The school will always try to accommodate your requests to use the off-track specialty bikes and you will almost certainly have the opportunity to do steering drill and lean bike, but getting to all of the specialty bikes in one 2 day camp would be difficult and is definitely not guaranteed.
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The other version is "slow is smooth and smooth is fast". I just take it to mean that if you are kind of frantic trying to brake super late and hard, get on the gas early and fight the rear for traction, etc., then you are not going to be able to effectively do the things that really affect your times, like stay on the fastest line and optimize your corner speeds. I've had that experience where I tried to find time with really late braking but then wasn't getting my entry speeds spot on. Doesn't work.
This is my take on it, too. I think it is human nature, when "trying to go fast", to charge the corners (entry speed too high) and mess up the rest of the corner and exit speed as a result. Having the mindset to calm down and ride or drive in a controlled way without upsetting the chassis and suspension usually means you go faster, but it feels slower.
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It is preferable to move your lower body before you let off the gas, while the bike is still very stable. Moving your hips while on the brakes makes things busy, can make it hard to stay locked in, and has you moving while you are off the gas, which is less stable for the bike.
CSS recommendation is to shift your hips over before you let off the gas. You can still keep both knees clamped on the tank to support you during braking. Your upper body will not necessarily shift over until you are about to turn the bike.
Getting your lower body position prior to braking, having your gear shifts planned (with reference points) and completed before your turn point, and having reference points for starting and stopping braking will free up a lot of attention that you can apply to working on your braking. Moving your brake release point (and/or your braknes-on point) forward gradually is a great way to approach it on a gradient to control SRs, but if you vary your braking intensity each lap that creates TWO variables which makes it harder to measure result - so try to keep your braking intensity consistent, and just move your markers gradually.
Some time on the brake rig could be quite helpful - part of that exercise is learning how to apply the brake properly, allowing you to brake harder at beginning of braking (but without snatching at the lever) and tapering off towards the end of braking. It can also help you realize how hard you really can brake, with proper technique, which can really shorten your braking distance.
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In theory, you would be tapering off the brakes as you approach your turn point, releasing just as you turn the bike, so that the forks remain compressed. (As opposed to the forks extending after you release the brakes then compressing again as you turn, if you release the brake, coast, then turn.) So yes, your brake release point and turn point definitely be the same point - but in your original post it did not sound like they were.
When you brake after the straight, are you braking hard then releasing suddenly and completely, or are you tapering your brake pressure down as you approach your turn point?
Per your post above (#3), if you are moving your lower body over AFTER braking and BEFORE your turn point... and you want your brake-release point and turn point to be the same spot... could you run into a problem there?
Do you recall from class WHEN you want to move your hips over in preparation for a turn?
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Couple of questions about how you are doing it now:
1) Do you have a brake release point?
2) Do you have a definite reference point for your turn point?
3) When do you slide your hips over in preparation for your turn? Before, during or after braking?
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I am right there with you, exactly. I do NOT like to be afraid or anxious or feel like I am endangering myself. I like the challenge of riding, the focus, and the "rush" from accelerating hard or cornering fast; I like it when I ride a corner really well and I love the feeling of overcoming riding barriers, running faster/cleaner laps, and generally improving my riding.
I never want to feel panic, or anything CLOSE to panic, or be worried or fearful.
I can live with the butterflies before a race, because that is really more like excitement and anticipation, but if I was actually fearful and afraid of crashing, I would not do it, it wouldn't be fun. Specific example, I have bowed out of a race in terrible weather conditions because it was so nerve-wracking to ride, and I have elected not to race with someone I considered overly aggressive and dangerous; I actually was pretty confident I could stay upright and out of trouble in both cases but I just didn't want to deal with the worry and anxiety, it took the fun out of the racing.
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Best way ever to preface a crash evaluation: "I was there."
Thanks, Dylan, for letting us know what happened to the rider in the video.
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I was interested, too - I just didn't seen anything "wrong" with the wear - the tire looked perfectly OK to me, nice smooth wear pattern - so I wasn't prepared to comment - I thought I must be missing something!
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If you closely watch the front wheel you can clearly see the wheel turn. Looks to me like the ride used his right arm to brace himself to kick the car - and when the car didn't give, the force went right into a push on the bar - countersteering the bike sharply to the right. That countersteering action causes the bike to lean to the right and turn right - the rider is caught by surprise and puts his foot down! Had he been relaxed (not likely in this circumstance!) the bike probably would have just turned right then stabilized.
Clearly his lower body was not braced well, because you can also see that the force of his kick pushes his butt off the right side of the seat, contributing to the problem. It's likely that when his butt came off, he pulled on the left bar to try to hold on, countersteering the bike even MORE to the right and causing it to lean over even farther - I suspect he was pulling on the left handlebar all the way to the ground.
Here is a question for the group - we know countersteering is initiated by pushing on the handlebar (and/or pulling on the opposite bar). Once the bike is at the desired lean angle, what do you do to STOP the bike from leaning over any farther?
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I agree with rchase above - if you do a 2 day camp, take Level 3 and 4, because in Level 4 you and your coach will be able to decide what area you need or want to focus on for your L4 day, which will allow you to revisit any skills (from any level) you feel you want to work on.
If you are only taking a ONE day school, and you are more interested in practicing and refining visual skills than you are in working on drills/material that is more focused on body position, re-doing Level 2 could make sense for you. There is certainly a lot to Level 2 that really makes a huge difference in a student's riding, and it can be a lot to absorb.
One other minor point to consider, if you do a 2-day camp - it is less common to see students take Level 2 & 3 in a 2 day camp - more often they are taking Levels 1 & 2 or Levels 3 & 4 - so you could end up being the only Level 2 student that first day, or one of a very few. That's not a problem, but you might miss a little of the camaraderie of being in a class with other students in the same level (which is always fun), and you may find yourself doing drills on the track that are different from everyone else. Then on the second day you might be alone in Level 3 whilst most others are doing Level 2.
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The Twist of the Wrist II DVD (the recent one) is really great - it has a bit of a story to make it entertaining but what I really like are all the great visual examples that illustrate the concepts. I love reading the books and they are great to have (they are available as eBooks now, too, BTW) but I got some extra understanding from seeing video examples of some of the techniques, especially the ones that compare doing it right versus doing it wrong, and the CG illustration of how countersteering actually works.
The Recent One ????
Has it been updated?
Sorry if that was confusing - I just meant to clarify the one from 2009, "A Twist of the Wrist II" DVD, as opposed to the original "A Twist of the Wrist" DVD; if you search somewhere like Amazon you can see both and sometimes people buy the older one thinking it is the 2009 one.
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OK, below is an answer from my husband who did a full exhaust on his 2010 S1000rr. (He had to remove the cat to get ANY race plastics to fit - the cat is too big to fit under most race plastics plus it gets really hot and would cook the paint off any fairing that would fit tightly to it.)
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I don’t know for sure but my understanding is the mapping will be wrong if the cat is removed without making map modifications. The stock ECU doesn’t have the capability of map changes. It would most likely be damaging to run the bike at track speeds with incorrect mapping, the question should probably be is it significant. There would also most likely be a loss in performance.
If he is looking for performance he should do them together. He could look at another mapping option such as a Power Commander V that costs less - but the BMW race ECU offers a lot more adjustment to the bike.
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http://www.motorcycl...ment-code-break
Perfect reference, ktk_ace. I hadn't seen this published yet, that is the perfect explanation of what glancing back and forth does to your visual flow. Keith did a ton of research. In this area, I hope he writes about it in more detail in the next book.
This is an excellent example of the difference between helpful advice and real technology.
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The Twist of the Wrist II DVD (the recent one) is really great - it has a bit of a story to make it entertaining but what I really like are all the great visual examples that illustrate the concepts. I love reading the books and they are great to have (they are available as eBooks now, too, BTW) but I got some extra understanding from seeing video examples of some of the techniques, especially the ones that compare doing it right versus doing it wrong, and the CG illustration of how countersteering actually works.
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It does happen that sometimes riders look TOO far ahead (probably due to the common advice to "look through the corner"), which can make the rider feel lost (losing track of their turn point, for example) or can make the rider inaccurate with the apex - for example, think of a sweeping 180 degree corner, if you look too far ahead you can end up unintentionally pointing the bike too far to the inside and have to make a steering correction to keep from running off the inside of the corner.
While I get the idea of the advice in the video and see how it could help a rider, I find the 2-step and 3-step drills from CSS more useful, since they VERY specifically tell you WHEN and WHERE to look, instead of just telling you to "look ahead more" or "don't look too far ahead"; statements like that are a bit vague and you hear them at track days a lot.
I agree with csmith that glancing back to "where I am now" negatively affects my riding; it interrupts my visual flow and slows my pace. If I have to move glance back at my turn point or apex to keep track of it, that usually tells me my visual timing was wrong - I looked ahead too early or too far, or skipped a step in my 2-step or 3-step. Following 2-step, then 3-step and ultimately wide-view gives the rider a very specific progression to nail down visual timing exactly, and ways to tell if the timing is off - which can happen to anyone when they get fatigued or distracted or are learning a new track; knowing when your visual skills aren't working and how to correct them is very important!
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body positioning is not gonna be VERY effective on a long wheelbase medium to hi COG ,heavy ,high horsepower bike (S1000RR) on a fast tarmac track (hi friction hi grip) obviously.
That jumped out at me. Perhaps you mean body steering?
I ride an S1000RR. Body position makes a huge difference.
Can you elaborate on that? In what ways do you notice body position makes a big difference for you on the S1000?
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Good clarification, Smith. I was stuck on the term body steering because it was in a couple of books I was reading and getting stuck on why it's wrong and how "body steering" is misleading and why it shouldn't be used. Weight management, or something similar, is more appropriate.
You're right as well, Chase. My thing on that is another book I've been reading mentions that moving your body over before a turn helps initiate the turn. It says that you need to do a counter-steer in the opposite direction to maintain the bike upright if you don't intend to turn at that point. My problem with that is that it's going to initiate a turn before one intends to turn unless they shift right at the point of the turn which, as we know, compromises the suspension, or cause utter confusion.
The wording in all these books is erroneous or confusing in relation to the other books. Even MSF has a book that says two different things. I know what it means, but that's because I understand counter-steering. A beginner may get confused.
While shifting the body is not an effective way to steer the bike, it does seem possible to me that if you hang off a lot to one side while going fast in a straight line, the bike could begin to veer a bit to that side. You would be creating wind drag and that is a significant force at speed. It wouldn't get a bike around a sharp corner but it may create enough drift to require a bit of bar pressure to keep the bike lined up straight to your desired turn point.
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OK, I don't claim to be expert in this area, but I do have some thoughts:
First of all, any good corner worker should be able to tell the difference between a power wheelie and a "look at me" stunt wheelie - if the front is lifting a bit under power and you are not standing it straight up or making obvious efforts to wheelie it, they shouldn't be giving you too much grief about it.
1) Ease up, lead foot!
OK, kidding aside, GRADUAL throttle application is important, especially in low gear at high rpm. You may have to slow the rate of your roll-on, either in general or as you approach the RPMs where the bike starts accelerating exponentially. Use your data logger to see how the acceleration rate jumps up at certain RPMs and be aware that you may need to slow your roll-on as you get up there. 2) Lower gears are more prone to wheelie, and higher RPMs will give you harder acceleration, so one relatively easy solution is to short-shift the bike (meaning, upshift sooner than you normally would; hopefully around 7-8K rpm will handle it, if not you may have to shift at even lower rpm). You will still get good acceleration but without the rocket power of the 10K and up RPMs. Or, you can use a higher gear to begin with, to reduce the power - if you were taking a sharp turn onto a straight in second, consider trying it in third, for example.
3) Refer to the throttle control section of Twist of the Wrist II - you generally want to let off the throttle smoothly (not chopping it) and the deceleration will set the front down. Some riders use the rear brake to set down a wheelie - you should ask around on this, I don't have enough data to help much with that.
4) The more forward and low you can get your upper body, the better for keeping the front down - get your body mass forward and down. If you sit UP you great increase your chances of wheelies. Make sure your arms are relaxed and your lower body is well locked on - if the bike's acceleration is sliding you back in the seat and causing you to pull on the bars, you are contributing to the wheelie tendency.
Be cautious not to use the spring-back of the forks to bounce you up into a wheelie when exiting a corner; example if your forks are compressed by cornering forces then you suddenly straighten the bike and hammer the gas, the sudden spring release of the forks can contribute to lofting the front wheel. Making sure your rebound damping is set correctly (no rebound damping at all would be the worst case for contributing to wheelies) can help with that. Some riders use this technique to get huge wheelies (for showing-off purposes), they do a quick twist of the bars (to load the front) then release and gas it, and the bike fairly leaps into the air.
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I heard a rumor on another forum that there are plans to build a new spectator bridge at Barber from the Museum over the track to view the Museum turn and the track beyond. What a cool idea!
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You could start running wide (front end pushing), or you could start getting little slips on the front tire that you can feel. If you have ever run over a small strip of sand or something slick while leaned over on a motorcycle or bike and felt a small sideslip - it can feel like that. But, if your technique is not good or your body position is not good or the surface is bumpy or inconsistent, you may not get much of a warning, the front end could slide out entirely. It is best to have good body position and be REALLY relaxed on the bars, to give the front end the best chance to correct and recover if it starts to slide. Grabbing the bars tightly makes a slide worse, being relaxed gives it a better chance to move and correct and regain traction.
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One of the coaches at the school some years ago bought a ThighMaster, remember that thing? Suzanne Sommers used to do infomercials for it. For sure those inner and outer thigh muscles need strengthening for squeezing the tank and for hanging off the bike, those are great exercises to do. Riding horses exercises a lot of the same leg muscles needed for sportbike riding - thighs, quads, shins, calves, abs, and lower back; that's what I do to keep in shape when not riding the motorcycle.
Squats are a good exercise to prep for track riding, get the quadriceps & calf muscles strong. There are a number of threads on this topic (riding fitness), you might try a forum search for more info.
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Typically models that are race-oriented are designed more around the rider being in a tuck and should provide better visibility from that position, plus better aerodynamics when the rider is in a tuck compared to upright. Standard street model helmets may not have those particular design characteristic in mind.
Any of the top-of-the-line race-oriented Schuberth, Shoei, Shark, Arai, AGV, HJC, Scorpion helmets should be good in this regard - as long as the helmet fits you properly! Certain websites - Revzilla comes to mind - can offer a little guidance on what brands/models tend to fit what types of head shapes, or Schuberth reps will happily help fit you properly if you can meet up with them at an event or at a CSS school they attend (they come to some of them). Sales reps at motorcycle stores have wide-ranging knowledge levels - some know a lot but a lot don't, so be cautious in getting helmet selection or fitting advice from a local motorcycle shop.
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The Twist of the Wrist II DVD has about the best explanation of counter steering I have seen. Possibly not the easiest thing to quote from but the info sure is good.
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Different tires have different characteristics but generally speaking a front tire with pressure too low will make the steering feel sluggish and vague. Too high can make it harder to warm up and make it feel harsh over bumps.
I normally associate the recommendation of front pressure a little higher than rear with high horsepower bikes that have a wider rear tire than front. On the smaller bikes where front and rear tire are the same size the pressure is sometimes recommended to be the same for both front and rear.
Hi From The High Desert!
in School Questions/General Discussion
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Look forward to seeing you there! Nice time of year to go to Willow Springs.