asinn0007 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Dear Forum Members and Instructors: I can understand the need to hang off when we're on the track going 95-100%, but some guys I know hang off all the time, on highways, on the streets, etc. Personally, I have some favorite roads where I find it safe enough to travel at 85% of what I estimate the bike, rider, and road is capable of, and I've tried going around these bends while hanging off, and without hanging off. Without hanging off the bike feels secure and planted (although it feels like my elbow and helmet are about to graze the tarmac), but when hanging off--at the same speed--it feels like the center of gravity is at my inside footpeg, and therefore the rear tire is outside the line of travel. Consequently, the rear tire is sliding, and when I get off and check the tires, they are indeed "shredded". There is a narrow band at or near the edge of the tire where the rubber is freshly rubbed off and some of the residue is sticking to the tire. While it feels great to hang off, at the speed I was traveling, it seemed as though I was decreasing traction. Should the rear slide a bit, it seems that planting a knee down on street pavement would be a bad idea with the irregularities and pot holes that are so common. Under what conditions does hanging off increase cornering speed and traction and when does it just increase risk without a tangible benefit? What would happen if a deer jumps out and I need to brake 100% suddenly while my torso is hanging off the side of the bike? I realize that to keep these skills fresh we need to practice them, but I need some common sense advice about the applicability and advisability of hanging off on the streets, between track days and SBS sessions. Are the examples of my riding buddies good ones, or are they SQUID's (Super Quick Until Imminent Death)? Thanks in advance for your advice and comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregGorman Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Without hanging off the bike feels secure and planted (although it feels like my elbow and helmet are about to graze the tarmac), but when hanging off--at the same speed--it feels like the center of gravity is at my inside footpeg, It sounds like when you're not hanging off, you lower your upper body to the inside of the turn, is that right? When you hang off, is your upper body in the same position? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 What would happen if a deer jumps out and I need to brake 100% suddenly while my torso is hanging off the side of the bike? #1 reason we don't practice track techniques on the street. Are you moreso trying to figure out kneedragging or are you talking about where to position your upper body? You dont need to drag a need to go fast. Usually thats just a barometer to measure how much traction you have left. With regards to hanging off the bike or not I've seen pros that leaning their body off the bike into the turn and kissing the mirror and I've seen some that try to keep their upper body and head kinda over the tank or going in the opposite direction as the turn, almost as if to look through the turn if its blind. Just do whatever YOU are comfortable with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Hi Andy, I don't recall what level(s) you have done, so I'll cover a few things. 1. I leave a pretty fat margin for street riding, so I don't hang off on the street--unless I thought I was going to be in real trouble coming up to a turn. 2. Hanging off while braking hard--as to whether this can be done, simply watch racing, and the top guys have knee out, rear wheel skimming the ground (sometimes off the ground), and are fully hung off. 3. There is for sure a bit of technique on how to do it correctly, covered at different levels in the school, but mostly when we get riders on the lean bike at Level 2. 4. The bike should be more upright, when hanging off, shouldn't be less traction (and tire sliding). Wonder if you have some handlebar input? CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asinn0007 Posted November 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 It sounds like when you're not hanging off, you lower your upper body to the inside of the turn, is that right? When you hang off, is your upper body in the same position? I try to stay in line with the centerline of the bike, although my best turns are done when I drop the inside shoulder a bit. As if I were to open a door with that shoulder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonzilla Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 I hang off when I'm just practicing something on the street. I never ride anywhere near what I ride on track, maybe 20% of that, but setting up my body before a corner, and things like that. I can go have fun on the back roads, I'm just always last in the pack. Well, when I did it anyways. I don't even try. When they used to talk trash I'd invite them out to the track. One person smoked me, but the rest didn't fare so well. And I'm not even fast. They think they're at 100% when they ride the streets, and find out they're nowhere near it. As for traction, I don't think hanging off even at slow speeds decreases traction. I may be wrong, but it still provides more lean, and moves the weight up to the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asinn0007 Posted November 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Hi Andy, 4. The bike should be more upright, when hanging off, shouldn't be less traction (and tire sliding). Wonder if you have some handlebar input? CF Bike does lean less. Maybe not "less traction," possibly "steering with the rear tire". When this happening, I am pushing on the inside bar and feel as though I am pushing the rear wheel outwards with butt and inside leg. I did level 1 in NJ. Tires on bikes came in shredded, but after our group rode them, the tires were polished clean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobie Fair Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Hi Andy, 4. The bike should be more upright, when hanging off, shouldn't be less traction (and tire sliding). Wonder if you have some handlebar input? CF Bike does lean less. Maybe not "less traction," possibly "steering with the rear tire". When this happening, I am pushing on the inside bar and feel as though I am pushing the rear wheel outwards with butt and inside leg. I did level 1 in NJ. Tires on bikes came in shredded, but after our group rode them, the tires were polished clean. If you have any traction issues, and you have weight on the inside bar, that can be a real factor. Remember the rider input briefing? CF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asinn0007 Posted November 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Hi Andy, 4. The bike should be more upright, when hanging off, shouldn't be less traction (and tire sliding). Wonder if you have some handlebar input? CF Bike does lean less. Maybe not "less traction," possibly "steering with the rear tire". When this happening, I am pushing on the inside bar and feel as though I am pushing the rear wheel outwards with butt and inside leg. I did level 1 in NJ. Tires on bikes came in shredded, but after our group rode them, the tires were polished clean. If you have any traction issues, and you have weight on the inside bar, that can be a real factor. Remember the rider input briefing? CF I remember the moral of the story, which is relax and let the bike do its job. But I don't remember the example...oh yes, I was sliding the back end around and going wide on the decreasing radius turns until I relaxed and gave it throttle more aggressively. Thank you again, Cobie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevuetlr Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 1st - I want to applaud everyone for all the replies. this forums has to be the most mature/open minded/willing group on the internet. 2nd - Andy... You really need to consider doing a lot more trackdays buddy. I've crashed maybe 6 times this year all at the track and the worst i got from it is a rash on my pinky finger. Sliding tires and going wide on turns on the street gives me scary thoughts. Just be careful out there man. I know a few local street guys who lost their lives due to preventable accidents on the street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skingraph Posted November 30, 2009 Report Share Posted November 30, 2009 wouldnt life be great if we could live on the track. ive never been to a track, but i can imagine how much more i would be allowed to do with the added safety. but how can one afford to ride track days enough to fulfill the addiction? side note tho, i have never been more mad in my life than when i almost clipped a rider that was over the center line at somewhat full lean. i swerved, he sat up and almost went straight. i was mad that i almost killed someone, i was mad that it would have been someone i called brother/sister, it scared me cuz my kid was in the car too. i think its like this, do what feels comfortable but the safety of those around you and your self should be top priority. with great power comes great responsibility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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