bellevuetlr

i see him feed the clutch multiple times while entering. blipping is so 90's... lol

Its good that you were able to analyze your riding. IMO your corner speed is not only a factor of your turn in rate but how much you brake also. just practice and slowly up the pace. on a 600, its really important that you get the whole corner correct so that you are at the peak of your powerband as you are exiting to maintain good speed. if you screw up the entry, you tend to charge the apex and then you end up wide or you just dont have enough rpm to get your bike to shoot out. Also, relying on engine braking to set your entry speed is wasting time-it should be either on the brakes or throttle. lastly, it doesnt hurt to ask a local for tips. have someone take you out for a few laps and you will be amazed how much faster you can be with the right person leading you. good luck! ps..i envy you guys.. riding season doesnt start until next month for us in the central region.

I don't know about Cobie, but that is the only circumstance where I do clutcless downshifts on a roadrace bike, Turn 8 at Willow Springs is 6th gear pinned and I drop two gears for turn 9 without the clutch. At a good pace your leaned over quite far when you do the downshifts. Worked pretty well when I set a lap record. wow... i was thinking the opposite. do you brake for the corner or do you just let off? i assume you have a slipper clutch on your bike? you got me all curious now... im going to have to give this a go this year. the main reason i use the clutch is i quit blipping the throttle. it enabled me to be really smooth with the brake and removed any jerkiness when entering the corner. so all i had to really do is modulate both levers while entering.. its easier for me to do than to brake while reving- this is on a 600rr. when i used to have a 10r with an slipper, i just banged the gears down quickly releasing the clutch without blipping and it worked well.

tell me.... have you tried doing this while leaned over coming out from a fast corner and then entering a slower corner?

Jason only recommends it for downshifting not upshifts. no reason to use the clutch on upshifts.

is that what the school is teaching? i agree that its not something that someone with little experience should focus on. different people different strokes i guess.

clutchless downshifts... cons i would rather deal with a messed up upshift than a downshift especially going at pace. having to downshift 2-4 gears after a straight without clutch modulation is going to be a disaster. and your clutch is not only used for chaning gear but is also used for traction management with or without slipper clutch especially when you are trail braking. i dont see any benefit of clutchless downshifting.

good discussion... although i think this topic has been covered a few months ago.. i think

Yup. I agree with you on this. Its all a pile of BS. Leverage can be achieve using multiple anchor points not just the inside foot. I have no problem with people following this method, I just dont like it when they push it to people like its the only way. Especially when the big dogs are doing completely different things. Thats why I really like KC comments on taking advice... people need to learn to weed out fluff.

the suspension will unload and screw up his entry... thats not the only reason you trail the brakes. and you dont have to trail the brakes all the way to the apex either. it really depends on what type of corner you are attacking. easing off the brakes is considered trailing. i dont think anyone is just 100% percent brakes and 0% all of the sudden... otherwise, youll be experiencing chatter at turn in. to me, eveything is about smoothness....

i actually dont have a problem with hangingoff.. i do think its a little too far.. its really trivial... but i think i exagerate it more during corner exit to pick the bike up a bit earlier.. excuse all the jabber from the other posts.. i just miss riding is all. the last post was more to share the cool pics i stole from another forum. as far as the head thing... the general position that they have it from what ive observed in leaned along with the bike.. obviously, they would turn it to look for the apex and exit but once they are inline and exiting, the head will be back in that position.. i dont see many top riders position themselves like doohan or schwantz... i think the only time your head will be completely leveled like that is if you were sitting straight up or riding crosse up. if you go to the site where i got the pics from, theres one picture of spies exiting a corner with his head leaned with the bike looking straight. pretty cool photo.

below are a few pictures to ponder on... note Lorenzo's eyes on the first photo. that is the only challenge visually... having to strain your eyes to look upwards.. other than that, when i do it, i do not have a problem looking through the apex and exit. and to comment on my avatar picture, im actually not hanging off too much there. my body is to the inside but i was still sitting pretty upright. i made breakthroughs with my riding that helped me gain more speed through the corner. i pretty much focused on getting my nipples on the opposite side of the tank for each corner pulling my body down to the tank. i cant wait to ride again next year. And the Master at work... Im the same size as Rossi btw except that im about 200 lbs.

i always thought that was interesting how the top racers just let their head lean with the bike and not twist it so that its parallel to the ground. ive always ridden like that. i always thought it was a lot harder to see than when you have your head level. but im so used to it that it really doesnt bother me. i catch myself having to stretch my eyes to look for the apex though. and bullet, we have the same suit. lol

you got me wrong buddy. i completely agree with what you are saying. there is a reason why all the best riders hang off that way. i was just pointing out that not everyone who is crossed up have troubles turning their head... its actually easier to move your head around with a more upright position than when you are all low and to the inside... and in the end, its all about traction management especially at the point when the tires start giving off in a race.

me? i dont ride crossed up at all. the vision thing doesnt have anything to do with body position though. bayliss was able to look through turns and so does everyone else i know who rides that way. it doesnt mean that its right though. its all about traction and clearance. everything that you do boils down to those two things. vision is something else. its given that riders should look where they should go. i dont have very many photos of myself since im usually photog duty but the 2pics below kinda shows how i usually ride. these were back in july.. ive since made some breakthroughs and body position is a lot closer to the tank.

to add to what other already said... your entry point is relative to your speed. you might want to turn in earlier or turn in faster which you guys already covered.

my 2cents being crossed up doesnt limit riders from turning their head to the direction of the turn. the reason to pull your head and upper body to the inside it to give the bike more clearance/traction at a certain speed compared to sitting crossed up. makes corner exits mor manageable and faster. the only difference i see from elias and lorenzo is that elias likes to hang his ass way out there. hes got both his cheeks off the seat while lorenzo is barely hanging off. both of their spines are to the inside of the bike and is parallel to the bike. besides bayliss and hodgson, vermulen (sp?), i havent seen anyone else in motogp that is crossed up on the bike except when not at pace.

1st - I want to applaud everyone for all the replies. this forums has to be the most mature/open minded/willing group on the internet. 2nd - Andy... You really need to consider doing a lot more trackdays buddy. I've crashed maybe 6 times this year all at the track and the worst i got from it is a rash on my pinky finger. Sliding tires and going wide on turns on the street gives me scary thoughts. Just be careful out there man. I know a few local street guys who lost their lives due to preventable accidents on the street.

maybe rossi rides a lot of supermoto?

when your tires are squirming... ex... mid corner you add throttle and your rear slipped or your front wants to tuck... that is the limit. you have body position to give you more clearance at a certain speed... but once youve reached that limit, theres really nothing else you can do but be smooth. no reason to do this on in a trackday..

all of them are important. but maybe sense of traction?

this is how zoran would put it.... open throttle f(#*ng p@#@y on a serious note, to piggy back what other people on here already said... its probably all mental and how your ride the bike. liter bikes are point and shoot, 600s require momentum.. although the new hondas have some great midrange, you usually need to wring their neck mid corner to get descent corner exit. i dont know of a book that covers these issues. but bottom line... zoran's comment has validity.. to go faster, you must have the balls to twist your right hand not only on the straight away. but during cornering... especially after the apex and exiting.

both bikes should be fine and are capable of turning fast laps around a race track. i saw your video and first thing that came to mind is you need to get yourself off the street or else youll kill yourself. secondly, get some one on one instruction to help you out. it looked like you tucked the front of the bike. without knowing your set up and your riding habits, people can only make assumptions. hope this helps.

sounds like suspension issues. have you set your sag/rebound/comp yet?

is it safe to assume that people who post in these forums have a general idea of what twist of the wrist is about?