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Cold Pavement


spthomas
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OK, there's problems with cold tires, but what about a cold track? Or more to the point, what temperature is a practical lower limit for a track day? I've had good traction and feel I can push it on warmer days but I have no experience in cooler temperatures so I'm hesitant. If it's 45F in the morning and 65F for a high, will that be OK?

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OK, there's problems with cold tires, but what about a cold track? Or more to the point, what temperature is a practical lower limit for a track day? I've had good traction and feel I can push it on warmer days but I have no experience in cooler temperatures so I'm hesitant. If it's 45F in the morning and 65F for a high, will that be OK?

 

What you moaning at man, that would be almost an invitation for stripping of in the UK. Those are nearly tropical temperatures those temp. wink.gif

 

OK, joking aside, if you use tyre warmers, then you'd be ok, we have trackdays that we run good times around that lower temp, the upper temperature you'd absolutely no worries at all, and we often race over here at the ambient temp. Word of warning with the colder temps though. The tyres even out of warmers, still need a little respect, and I'd still give them sometime to really lean on them. If it's really, really cold, lower than 45, you should really consider the tarmac isn't as grippy much below this, and you should not expect quite the same grip as a sunny warm day. knee down is possible etc, but mindful of the available traction.

 

Bullet

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I don't use tire warmers, and on a 2.75 mile track I'm doing two laps just to warm up. One very slow and one with little throttle while over at all. After that I get a little more into it, but am hesitant all the way through. It is what it is. You've got to adjust.

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OK, joking aside, if you use tyre warmers, then you'd be ok, we have trackdays that we run good times around that lower temp, the upper temperature you'd absolutely no worries at all, and we often race over here at the ambient temp.

I don't have tire warmers :(

 

Normally I usually take the first lap slow, the second a bit faster, then all-out for the rest of the session. I wasn't sure how much the colder pavement draws heat out of the tires though.

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Not track riding, I know, but I had a few gentle slides for the first time with my BT001 last road ride on a cool day - about 50F / 10C, overcast and blustery. It had been around 32F / 0C during the night, so the ground was cold. The tyre never gained any temperature even riding a little briskly (for street conditions, mind you) on the back roads. Perhaps lowering the tyre pressure would be a good thing on cool days?

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Perhaps lowering the tyre pressure would be a good thing on cool days?

 

We do lower the tyre pressures for track work. The reason for dong this is that tyres have an optimum tyre pressure (i.e. a working tyre pressure) which allows the tyre to work at it's best. Because the loads and the work a tyre does is harder on track is the reason we lower those pressures. If the ambient temp is cooler (and wind chill is definitely a factor that can make it low). you still need to obtain the right pressure. If the tyre doesn't get as warm through temp and we've already agreed you can't load it as much, then the starting pressure will have to be higher than normal for the track, (but to be clear, still lower than for the road) not the other way around.

 

I also think, if you don't use tyre warmers, 3 build laps as you're suggesting do SteveO is a good position to have a tyre upto good working temp.

 

Bullet

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Perhaps lowering the tyre pressure would be a good thing on cool days?

 

We do lower the tyre pressures for track work.

 

That, and possibly also changing to a different compound. If it's very cold (like 45F/7C), some of the softer compound tyres like to tear themselves apart from the abuse.

 

Regards,

 

Kai

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One thing that we have noticed is that not all know how to warm the tires. Tires have to be flexed to be warmed. Friction isn't what does the warming, it the internal flexing if I have this correctly. We've had students ride too cautiously on the first laps, think the tire was warmed, hammer it and still crash on cold tires.

 

What has been clear is that starting slowly is key, then taking care to warm both sides of the tire, by gradually increasing the pace. For this, have to pay some attention to what type of turns are available at the track/road you are riding. If you have some long right hand turns and the tires warm on that side, but only a few short left hand turns (like Willow Springs), the tires warm faster on that side.

 

Best,

CF

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  • 2 weeks later...

Perhaps lowering the tyre pressure would be a good thing on cool days?

 

We do lower the tyre pressures for track work. The reason for dong this is that tyres have an optimum tyre pressure (i.e. a working tyre pressure) which allows the tyre to work at it's best. Because the loads and the work a tyre does is harder on track is the reason we lower those pressures. If the ambient temp is cooler (and wind chill is definitely a factor that can make it low). you still need to obtain the right pressure. If the tyre doesn't get as warm through temp and we've already agreed you can't load it as much, then the starting pressure will have to be higher than normal for the track, (but to be clear, still lower than for the road) not the other way around.

 

I also think, if you don't use tyre warmers, 3 build laps as you're suggesting do SteveO is a good position to have a tyre upto good working temp.

 

Bullet

 

 

Hi,

I've always thought that we lowered tyre pressure to create more flex and increase tyre temperature making the rubber more pliable. Obviously, temperature and pressure are inter-linked.

What is the optimum that we're trying to achieve. A specific pressure or temperature range?

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I've always thought that we lowered tyre pressure to create more flex and increase tyre temperature making the rubber more pliable. Obviously, temperature and pressure are inter-linked.

What is the optimum that we're trying to achieve. A specific pressure or temperature range?

 

According to Dave Moss of On The Throttle, we're trying to reach a specific temperature range. Dave explains tyre wear and how it's affected by temperature/pressure and suspension setup in this episode of On The Throttle Live: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6516891

I'm not in a position to argue for or against what he is saying, but I do find it very interesting.

 

 

Kai

 

Edit: fixed link to the show (105 minutes!) and not the youtube teaser (21 sec :( )

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