Qualifier Ii Vs Sportsmart

[richinio]

I have another question for DUNLOP-RTS....

 

Can you summarise how the new SportSmart tyre compares to the Qualifier II (UK spec in both cases) please?

 

Key things that spring to mind are :-

 

Dry grip

Wet grip

Grip in cold conditions

Warm up time

Longevity

 

 

I would like to know how they rate against each other in both street and track day usage.

[Bullet]

I have another question for DUNLOP-RTS....

 

Can you summarise how the new SportSmart tyre compares to the Qualifier II (UK spec in both cases) please?

 

Key things that spring to mind are :-

 

Dry grip

Wet grip

Grip in cold conditions

Warm up time

Longevity

 

 

I would like to know how they rate against each other in both street and track day usage.

 

 

 

Hi richie,

 

I'll let our friend steve from dunlop tell you the technical differences, and then I'll give you my opinion on how they both ride, as we use/have used both of these tyres the last couple of years (sportsmart this year), and comprehensively in both dry and wet, colder and very warm conditions in the UK. They're both great though, the sportsmart frankly remarkable for what it is and how we abuse them at the school.

 

Bullet

[Motostark]

I have another question for DUNLOP-RTS....

 

Can you summarise how the new SportSmart tyre compares to the Qualifier II (UK spec in both cases) please?

 

Key things that spring to mind are :-

 

Dry grip

Wet grip

Grip in cold conditions

Warm up time

Longevity

 

 

I would like to know how they rate against each other in both street and track day usage.

 

 

 

Hi richie,

 

I'll let our friend steve from dunlop tell you the technical differences, and then I'll give you my opinion on how they both ride, as we use/have used both of these tyres the last couple of years (sportsmart this year), and comprehensively in both dry and wet, colder and very warm conditions in the UK. They're both great though, the sportsmart frankly remarkable for what it is and how we abuse them at the school.

 

Bullet

 

Please....tell us more about the SportSmarts.

 

.

 

 

 

[DUNLOP-RTS]

I have another question for DUNLOP-RTS....

 

Can you summarise how the new SportSmart tyre compares to the Qualifier II (UK spec in both cases) please?

 

Key things that spring to mind are :-

 

Dry grip

Wet grip

Grip in cold conditions

Warm up time

Longevity

 

 

I would like to know how they rate against each other in both street and track day usage.

 

 

 

Hi richie,

 

I'll let our friend steve from dunlop tell you the technical differences, and then I'll give you my opinion on how they both ride, as we use/have used both of these tyres the last couple of years (sportsmart this year), and comprehensively in both dry and wet, colder and very warm conditions in the UK. They're both great though, the sportsmart frankly remarkable for what it is and how we abuse them at the school.

 

Bullet

 

 

Bullet,

 

Lets hear your first hand experience with them, I am interested in the feedback. Be specific as to which model and location of manufacture along with availability for a given region. Keeping in mind not all models are available in all regions. Then I can chime in.

[Bullet]

Ok Guys, I'll happily share what experience we have. I think, having had a quick look around on t'internet, that perhaps you don't have sportsmarts in USA yet? It's a new tyre in the UK this year, which we've used.

 

So, we've use Qualifiers II's (we mainly we use these on Student school bikes, though we sometimes run them on the 600's at school), Sportsmarts on our coach 600 bikes, and some of our R1's, and we also use the D211GP Racer NTEC. I believe in the UK these are how the tyres rate with respect to relative rating of performance, Q2's being oldest of the 3 tyres and not an NTEC based tyre, the newer 2 are both new in 2010 and are NTEC based to one degree or other.

 

If we were two say where I understand they're to be used, Q2's are a supersport road based tyre really, Sportsmart are the newer tyre that has a range of abilities to cover both supersport and Hypersport bikes mainly road usage orientated. the 211GP Racer NTEC is a road/track tyre, with more empahsiss on that aspect.

 

 

So Q2's, Is, as was stated in other threads, a very good tyre indeed, performs very well in all conditions. We typically get about 4-5 days of track usage out of the rear and a few more days student bikes on the Q2's. I've personally never had any issues with grip at lean, warm up in dry or wet weather grip. In the dry, we're probably talking a little longer warm up than the newer tyres, as these tyres aren't NTEC and aren't as lower pressure based, so for example in the Uk, we'd probably run 31F 29R in these tyres (from memory). If I had a slight niggle about them, I'd say the were a little slow to warm up in the wet, and until we had them warmed up, they were a little slippy until you had perhaps 3-4 laps into them and graudually built that up.

 

Sportsmarts, new tyre this year, and we used these tyres actually because the new D211 GP NTEC were very much in supply constraint earlier in 2010. I would suggest we hadn't actually planned to run them on the coach bikes, but if you don't have the top tyres available, you goto the next ones down the stack. Well, what a suprise this tyre turned out to be. It's a stunninly good tyre really. It warms very quick, has great feel from the front and the rear and is good in both wet and dry.

 

The thing that's exceptional about the tyre really though is the compound and the construction of the tyre, I remember riding a set earlier this year on an R1, and had the tyre spinning (yet driving forward), darkies everywhere. I was really, really leaning on the tyre very hard. We came back into the pits and the tyre didn't tear at all, was beautifully smooth and wear was just remarkable. We run the sportsmarts on our coach bikes for around 4-5 days on the rear, which is probably double what a Q2 would handle with one of us lot leaning on it allday, specifically the Q2's, whilst very good, do show very hard signs of use when on an R1 in a day or so.

 

If i have a criticism/observation of the Sportsmart, is that it has a different profile, and I'd describe it as a rounder profile from the more track orientated tyre like the GP Racer. This means that the tyre isn't as quick to turn and feels a little like a rolling into the turn rather than quickly flicking into the turns. This is more than likely because of it's orientation for road usage I would suggest. Feel from the tyre is very good all the way upto the very edge where the tyre becomes a little vague (to my feel), though we're talking about the very edge with pegs and knees buried on the floor, so really I use this floaty feeling (is all I can descirbe it as) as gauge of I'm at max lean. Given we totally abuse these tyres and they're really a road orientated tyre, it's absolutle amazing it puts up with the level of abuse we give them and how we use them and the level of longevity, and is definitely a step up I believe from the Q2 in all areas, though I would expect this from a newer tyre.

 

The D211GP is an amazing tyre, the grip and feel from this tyre is just amazing. Having used the older 209's before, they had stunning feel from the front, but were a little lacking in feel (again for me), in the rear, they tyre's gripped fantastic, but you couldn't feel a lot through the tyre, the 211's changed all that. It runs much lower pressure, and the tyre carcass must be much stiffer, and this I guess (though I'd appreciate the technical explanation), and this really does give you lots of great feel from the rear tyre.

 

I remember when i first rode it, I started to feel all manner of weird and wonderful things from the rear, I thought there was something wrong with the tyre, but what I was feeling was the tarmac underneath the tyre and it feeding that information back to me. This just allows you to lean on the tyre, so, so hard, its stunning. We're talking first gear hairpins, rolling onto full throttle power wheelies and blacklines all at the same time. Criticisms of the tyre? Well, it's a super grippy tyre and it's all about performance and grip and lean angle, so you wouldn't expect it to last forever and it doesn't, and doesn't last as long as a sportsmart, however that said, we don't take the piss on them the same as we do on the 211's. Given the choice, I'd always choose the 211's over the sportsmarts because of that amazing grip and the feel though, because it's an incredible trackday tyre!

 

I have to be honest, I'm not sure where tyres are manafactured, though I think the 211GP's are made in France (again from Memory)? I have to confess, I don't really check that out when I'm looking at tyres, pressures are my only concern normally.

 

So that's it really, If you're a trackday rider, I'd go 211's over the others which are clearly more road orientated, the Q2's are very good, the sportsmarts are remarkably adaptable and show exceptional longevity and grip.

 

Hope that helps. If you have further questions, please ask, I'll try and clarify.

 

Bullet

 

 

 

[acebobby]

Great write up on the range of tyres Bullet, alot of good info in there,

I use tyres more based on cost and availability and have picked up a few pairs of metzeller racetechs and some pirelli super corsa's and since my lowside last year have opted not to use road tyres on the track! apologises if this is an awkward question but do you opt for the top performing Dunlop tyre on your personal bike due to your experience as a coach or do you opt to try out different tyres?

 

Bobby

[Bullet]

Great write up on the range of tyres Bullet, alot of good info in there,

I use tyres more based on cost and availability and have picked up a few pairs of metzeller racetechs and some pirelli super corsa's and since my lowside last year have opted not to use road tyres on the track! apologises if this is an awkward question but do you opt for the top performing Dunlop tyre on your personal bike due to your experience as a coach or do you opt to try out different tyres?

 

Bobby

 

 

No problem on your questions Bobby, I'll tell you exactly what I use.

 

We have 4 bikes currently in our house, (the wife rides too on track), I have an Aprilia RSV (my older track bike), My CBR Racer, and the 1098R I just procured before Xmas. The Wifes 749R (her baby), runs Dunlops 211GP Racers, she never complains, and the tyre is very much better than she, though she's a good intermediate rider and can crack on well. The Aprilia curretly has Pirelli slicks on, and I've used Michelins on it, (slicks and DOT tires), Dunlop slicks and I used supercorsas on it initially. I've varied around over the years to get some experience and as you said, just what I could get at the time really.

 

My racer (an old CBR 600), has Dunlop 211 NTec's on, and I love them on this bike. It's a proper race bike and they're more tyre than the bike needs really, just stunning. Normally get a couple of rounds out of them really.

 

The 1098R currently has Supercorsa's on it, (it came with them), and they're ok, they're cretainly very grippy, though they don't feel the same as the Dunlops, (feedback). I don't have any real complaints with them as I've only used it once and I wasn't trying to go absolutely flat out, but the tyre's lasted well, and didn't tear up, or anything like that. when they're done though, i'll be going onto Dunlop NTEC' slicks, so I think that probably tells you what I really like. Those, are just unreal things.

 

Bullet

 

 

 

 

 

 

[acebobby]

Thanks for your feedback and thoughts Bullet, all good info!

 

Cheers!

[richinio]

 

Thanks for the info Mr Bullet, very informative.

 

From that I would deduce that the SportSmart is the best choice for someone that needs a road tyre that also does a fair few serious track days.

 

I am somebody that only does the occaisonal track day (including doing CSS levels 1 & 2 at Silverstone this coming spring!). So I'm looking for a tyre with road performance in the UKs highly varied conditions (!) in the main + decent track performance 4 or 5 times per year.

 

I think the Qualifier II is right up my street given what I am looking for, and I have just bought a pair - will put them to the test when the roads are free of ice & snow (I hate winter!)

 

What I would be interested to hear is a comparison of street performance of the Q II vs SportSmart....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[acebobby]

To be honest richinio,

On UK roads, with speed limits(ish) etc I think both they tyres will be fine and never really be pushed anywhere near their potential, only when you get on track will the difference become evident! I ran a pair of roadsmarts a couple of years ago and thought they were amazing on the road, and they lasted ages, I did 2 or 3 trackdays on them too! Personally if I were running a street/trackbike I would probably opt for the sportsmarts because I like the latest thing but if there were a deal to be had on a pair of Q2s id take them!

Though on my street bike Ducati 848 I run pirelli diablo rosso's and really like them on the road!

 

Bobby

[khp]

If I have a criticism/observation of the Sportsmart, is that it has a different profile, and I'd describe it as a rounder profile from the more track orientated tyre like the GP Racer. This means that the tyre isn't as quick to turn and feels a little like a rolling into the turn rather than quickly flicking into the turns. This is more than likely because of it's orientation for road usage I would suggest.

Does that mean that the GP Racer are 'flimsy' and feel like they're searching for the right lean angle when turned in?

 

I'm asking because I'm wondering if it's like the Metzeler Sportec M1 vs the M3's. I used to run M1's on my 2003 R1 and loved it, but when I got the M3's I was surprised because especially the front tire is much more pointed, which makes them quicker to turn, but they give the sensation that they're constantly changing the lean ever so slightly. Not comforting at all, although they have plenty of grip at my speeds.

 

 

Kai

[Bullet]

If I have a criticism/observation of the Sportsmart, is that it has a different profile, and I'd describe it as a rounder profile from the more track orientated tyre like the GP Racer. This means that the tyre isn't as quick to turn and feels a little like a rolling into the turn rather than quickly flicking into the turns. This is more than likely because of it's orientation for road usage I would suggest.

Does that mean that the GP Racer are 'flimsy' and feel like they're searching for the right lean angle when turned in?

 

I'm asking because I'm wondering if it's like the Metzeler Sportec M1 vs the M3's. I used to run M1's on my 2003 R1 and loved it, but when I got the M3's I was surprised because especially the front tire is much more pointed, which makes them quicker to turn, but they give the sensation that they're constantly changing the lean ever so slightly. Not comforting at all, although they have plenty of grip at my speeds.

 

 

Kai

 

No not all, they're just sharper profiled and less rounded off in shape, if that makes sense. No flimsiness at all, sharp, precise turn in, they flip over to full lean effortlessly (well almost), but you get the point with luck? Great grip. I've never felt them searching for the right lean, etc, etc.

 

Bullet

[DUNLOP-RTS]

I have to be honest, I'm not sure where tyres are manafactured, though I think the 211GP's are made in France (again from Memory)? I have to confess, I don't really check that out when I'm looking at tyres, pressures are my only concern normally.

 

So that's it really, If you're a trackday rider, I'd go 211's over the others which are clearly more road orientated, the Q2's are very good, the sportsmarts are remarkably adaptable and show exceptional longevity and grip.

 

Hope that helps. If you have further questions, please ask, I'll try and clarify.

 

Bullet

 

 

 

 

 

Great write up Bullet. Hats off to you.

 

The D211GP Race and the SportSmart are manufactured in France ( that is my understanding)

The D211GP N-Tec is manufactured in UK

The Q2 is manufactured in the USA.

The Qualifier II is Manufactured in Japan.

 

SportSmart and Q2 are designed for the street sport market. Q2 for USA and SportSmart for EU. They are on a par for performance. Get the one that is available in your area.

 

Qualifier II is for OEM and OEM replacement. Not as good as Q2 but still good.

 

D211GP racer. I have no experience with this tire

 

D211GP N-Tec. The very best racing tire! Hands down, no argument. (that's across all brands too!!!)

 

Take my statement as basic facts. But, Bullet has give a great first hand experience write up. I would consider his observations as a swaying factor when buying your next set.

[Mike3000]

Great information Bullet and Steve.

 

I have just bought a GSXR1000 track bike in the UK and the tyres on it say NTEC Sportmax. This doesn't seem to fit with what has been said. There are no GP211 etc numbers.

Also they say made in France.

 

Any ideas please?

[richinio]

Well my Qualifier II's are nearly shot and I'm going for Sportsmarts next.

 

On track I was running the Qualifiers 32F and 30R (cold) in all conditions and they performed well.

 

Can you recommend cold pressures for track, wet and dry, for the Sportsmarts please? Bear in mind I'm in the UK so average temp is about 20C (68F) in the summer, and I'm Intermediate group speed wise.

 

Thanks.

[DUNLOP-RTS]

Great information Bullet and Steve.

 

I have just bought a GSXR1000 track bike in the UK and the tyres on it say NTEC Sportmax. This doesn't seem to fit with what has been said. There are no GP211 etc numbers.

Also they say made in France.

 

Any ideas please?

 

If the tires you have are the OEM tires, I would remove them and go with an aftermarket tire of your choice and what is available.

 

The OEM tires can be confusing sometimes, becasue what is sold OEM is not what is sold aftermarket. The quality and performance of an aftermarket tire is usually much better.

 

IF they say SportSmart, they are SportSmart. N-Tec is a type of construction and many tires are N-tec but have different names. So just saying N-Tec does not tell the whole story. There need to be another name like SportSmart to describe the tire.

 

If you are confused by what may be marked on the tire, start all over and get a new set.

[Kevin Kane]

IF they say SportSmart, they are SportSmart. N-Tec is a type of construction and many tires are N-tec but have different names. So just saying N-Tec does not tell the whole story. There need to be another name like SportSmart to describe the tire.

 

If you are confused by what may be marked on the tire, start all over and get a new set.

OK Steve; I know you have beat this one to death but I still have one more question. Does a Dunlop SportSmart 211 GP-A that is made in the USA incorporate N-Tec construction or was it constructed in a manor similar to the 209 GP?

 

Rainman

[Kevin Kane]

IF they say SportSmart, they are SportSmart. N-Tec is a type of construction and many tires are N-tec but have different names. So just saying N-Tec does not tell the whole story. There need to be another name like SportSmart to describe the tire.

 

If you are confused by what may be marked on the tire, start all over and get a new set.

OK Steve; I know you have beat this one to death but I still have one more question. Does a Dunlop SportSmart 211 GP-A that is made in the USA incorporate N-Tec construction or was it constructed in a manor similar to the 209 GP?

 

Rainman

 

Steve;

Nevermind. I did what I should have done a long ago - I went to your website http://dunlopracing.com/ and found the D211 GP-A SportSmart tire is the same tire designated as the AMA Spec Tire and it is made in the USA utilizating N-Tec construction. Further, I found that the D209 GP-A is also based upon the N-Tec construction and is still available at lease from Race Tire Services in Tennesee.

 

Rainman

[geonapa]

If i have a criticism/observation of the Sportsmart, is that it has a different profile, and I'd describe it as a rounder profile from the more track orientated tyre like the GP Racer. This means that the tyre isn't as quick to turn and feels a little like a rolling into the turn rather than quickly flicking into the turns. This is more than likely because of it's orientation for road usage I would suggest. Feel from the tyre is very good all the way upto the very edge where the tyre becomes a little vague (to my feel), though we're

 

 

This question goes to the DUNLOP-RTS.

 

The way to go as you have pointed me in some other thread about the Qualifier II was " The 190/55 will perform much better than the 190/50 if its a Dunlop. Its the way to go."

 

So, is it still true for the Sportsmart too ? Shall i use the 190/55 instead of the 190/50?

[geonapa]

Ok Guys, I'll happily share what experience we have. I think, having had a quick look around on t'internet, that perhaps you don't have sportsmarts in USA yet? It's a new tyre in the UK this year, which we've used.

 

So, we've use Qualifiers II's (we mainly we use these on Student school bikes, though we sometimes run them on the 600's at school), Sportsmarts on our coach 600 bikes, and some of our R1's, and we also use the D211GP Racer NTEC. I believe in the UK these are how the tyres rate with respect to relative rating of performance, Q2's being oldest of the 3 tyres and not an NTEC based tyre, the newer 2 are both new in 2010 and are NTEC based to one degree or other.

 

If we were two say where I understand they're to be used, Q2's are a supersport road based tyre really, Sportsmart are the newer tyre that has a range of abilities to cover both supersport and Hypersport bikes mainly road usage orientated. the 211GP Racer NTEC is a road/track tyre, with more empahsiss on that aspect.

 

 

So Q2's, Is, as was stated in other threads, a very good tyre indeed, performs very well in all conditions. We typically get about 4-5 days of track usage out of the rear and a few more days student bikes on the Q2's. I've personally never had any issues with grip at lean, warm up in dry or wet weather grip. In the dry, we're probably talking a little longer warm up than the newer tyres, as these tyres aren't NTEC and aren't as lower pressure based, so for example in the Uk, we'd probably run 31F 29R in these tyres (from memory). If I had a slight niggle about them, I'd say the were a little slow to warm up in the wet, and until we had them warmed up, they were a little slippy until you had perhaps 3-4 laps into them and graudually built that up.

 

Sportsmarts, new tyre this year, and we used these tyres actually because the new D211 GP NTEC were very much in supply constraint earlier in 2010. I would suggest we hadn't actually planned to run them on the coach bikes, but if you don't have the top tyres available, you goto the next ones down the stack. Well, what a suprise this tyre turned out to be. It's a stunninly good tyre really. It warms very quick, has great feel from the front and the rear and is good in both wet and dry.

 

The thing that's exceptional about the tyre really though is the compound and the construction of the tyre, I remember riding a set earlier this year on an R1, and had the tyre spinning (yet driving forward), darkies everywhere. I was really, really leaning on the tyre very hard. We came back into the pits and the tyre didn't tear at all, was beautifully smooth and wear was just remarkable. We run the sportsmarts on our coach bikes for around 4-5 days on the rear, which is probably double what a Q2 would handle with one of us lot leaning on it allday, specifically the Q2's, whilst very good, do show very hard signs of use when on an R1 in a day or so.

 

If i have a criticism/observation of the Sportsmart, is that it has a different profile, and I'd describe it as a rounder profile from the more track orientated tyre like the GP Racer. This means that the tyre isn't as quick to turn and feels a little like a rolling into the turn rather than quickly flicking into the turns. This is more than likely because of it's orientation for road usage I would suggest. Feel from the tyre is very good all the way upto the very edge where the tyre becomes a little vague (to my feel), though we're talking about the very edge with pegs and knees buried on the floor, so really I use this floaty feeling (is all I can descirbe it as) as gauge of I'm at max lean. Given we totally abuse these tyres and they're really a road orientated tyre, it's absolutle amazing it puts up with the level of abuse we give them and how we use them and the level of longevity, and is definitely a step up I believe from the Q2 in all areas, though I would expect this from a newer tyre.

 

The D211GP is an amazing tyre, the grip and feel from this tyre is just amazing. Having used the older 209's before, they had stunning feel from the front, but were a little lacking in feel (again for me), in the rear, they tyre's gripped fantastic, but you couldn't feel a lot through the tyre, the 211's changed all that. It runs much lower pressure, and the tyre carcass must be much stiffer, and this I guess (though I'd appreciate the technical explanation), and this really does give you lots of great feel from the rear tyre.

 

I remember when i first rode it, I started to feel all manner of weird and wonderful things from the rear, I thought there was something wrong with the tyre, but what I was feeling was the tarmac underneath the tyre and it feeding that information back to me. This just allows you to lean on the tyre, so, so hard, its stunning. We're talking first gear hairpins, rolling onto full throttle power wheelies and blacklines all at the same time. Criticisms of the tyre? Well, it's a super grippy tyre and it's all about performance and grip and lean angle, so you wouldn't expect it to last forever and it doesn't, and doesn't last as long as a sportsmart, however that said, we don't take the piss on them the same as we do on the 211's. Given the choice, I'd always choose the 211's over the sportsmarts because of that amazing grip and the feel though, because it's an incredible trackday tyre!

 

I have to be honest, I'm not sure where tyres are manafactured, though I think the 211GP's are made in France (again from Memory)? I have to confess, I don't really check that out when I'm looking at tyres, pressures are my only concern normally.

 

So that's it really, If you're a trackday rider, I'd go 211's over the others which are clearly more road orientated, the Q2's are very good, the sportsmarts are remarkably adaptable and show exceptional longevity and grip.

 

Hope that helps. If you have further questions, please ask, I'll try and clarify.

 

Bullet

 

 

 

 

Hi.

nice writeup.

My question is what tire pressures shall i use with sportsmart at the track?

 

Thanks