Rain Track Day Tires

[BLSJDS]

I currently run the Dunlop Q2s on my '08 CBR600RR. This winter, I am planning to purchase an extra set of wheels to mount a set of rain tires on, as this will guarantee rain-free CSS & track days .

 

I don't race; these tires would strictly be for CSS and local track days in the event of rain and / or a wet track. I've taken Levels 1-4 (4 twice) FWIW.

 

What do you guys recommend?

 

Thanks!

Dan

[spgtech]

I've use the Dunlops with good luck and around here the Pirellis are also popular with the racers. Either way, the grip of the rain tires is pretty darn amazing. Here in Seattle a spare set of wheels and rains has been money well spent.

-Sean

[BLSJDS]

Thanks Sean - I appreciate the info. I've read that the grip on rain tires is excellent, so I think it will be money well spent, as well .

[BLSJDS]

Is it necessary to heat up the rain tires with tire warmers, or would a few cautious laps suffice? Again, this is for track days only, not racing.

 

(Trying to determine if I need to add tire warmers to my budget )

[Cobie Fair]

Is it necessary to heat up the rain tires with tire warmers, or would a few cautious laps suffice? Again, this is for track days only, not racing.

 

(Trying to determine if I need to add tire warmers to my budget )

 

The teams do run tire warmers on full wets, like to see what Steve has to say on this.

 

The coaches in the UK have tons of experience in the rain, I'll see what guys are doing there for track days.

 

CF

[BLSJDS]

Is it necessary to heat up the rain tires with tire warmers, or would a few cautious laps suffice? Again, this is for track days only, not racing.

 

(Trying to determine if I need to add tire warmers to my budget )

 

The teams do run tire warmers on full wets, like to see what Steve has to say on this.

 

The coaches in the UK have tons of experience in the rain, I'll see what guys are doing there for track days.

 

CF

 

Thanks Cobie! Looking forward to the feedback .

[khp]

I recall Steve advocating AGAINST the use of tire warmers on wets. I'm typing from my cellphone so I can't look it up right now.

 

Kai

[Mika]

I recall Steve advocating AGAINST the use of tire warmers on wets.

Kai;

I have heard that as well from Steve's counter point on the east coast.

 

Mika

[Jet]

Is it necessary to heat up the rain tires with tire warmers, or would a few cautious laps suffice? Again, this is for track days only, not racing.

 

(Trying to determine if I need to add tire warmers to my budget )

 

The teams do run tire warmers on full wets, like to see what Steve has to say on this.

 

The coaches in the UK have tons of experience in the rain, I'll see what guys are doing there for track days.

 

CF

 

Cobie,

 

My answer to all our students is what are you trying to achieve with tyre warmers? is it to prolong tyre life i.e. stop the tyre going through too many heat cycles or is it to give confidence that the tyres are hot and ready to go straight away.

If its the former then they do serve a purpose at the school as they will help with tyre life.

If its the latter by the time a student has lined up and been through all the course control checks they have no idea what temp is left in the tyres and if its a cold or windy day there may be very little. If they assume they are still at 80'C then they may be surprised how much they have dropped.

As far as wets and warmers, unless they have variable temp tyre warmers there is a good chance that standard warmers will take wets over their design temp as it is much lower than slicks as you know. And could get them too hot!

As I say to all the coaches and students, building up and understanding just how much temp and grip you have at any given time is a skill to be understood and developed like any other.

Race teams run warmers on wets because they are going to race in a matter of minutes from when they come off and want every last possible assistance. This is not what is going to happen on a school day, our coaches don't have tyre warmers or wets and seem to manage pretty well :-)

 

Best

 

Jet

Chief Riding Coach

UK, Europe, South Africa and Middle East

[BLSJDS]

Thanks for all the replies / information!

 

Jet - since I do not race, I ALWAYS take it very easy for the first few laps of each session to warm up the tires, and then progressively get a "feel" for traction as I increase my pace. Wet weather riding would be no different. Sounds like I can remove tire warmers from my budget .

 

Now to find more things to ADD to the budget...

[Cobie Fair]

Hi Jet,

 

Thanks, I confess I don't know what tire temp the wets run, can you fill that in? The rest makes perfect sense.

 

Best,

Cobie

[DUNLOP-RTS]

Is it necessary to heat up the rain tires with tire warmers, or would a few cautious laps suffice? Again, this is for track days only, not racing.

 

(Trying to determine if I need to add tire warmers to my budget )

 

DO NOT use warmers with rain tires. The likelihood that you will melt the soft rain compound is very high.

 

Even if you could get the tire to 100 deg F on a warmer, it would quickly drop to the surrounding rain waters temperature within seconds of rolling through the standing water. Keep in mind that water conducts heat 36 times more efficiently than air. So if 10 minutes in the wind can drop your tire temp 50 deg, 17 seconds will do the same in the rain (1-3 corners). Its not something that your attention should be on while club racing or track days.

 

Scuff in: No need to take any warmup or scuff in laps. The most importaint part of the rain tire is the grooves and the sharp edges of the grooves. An un-scuffed tire is not a factor at the small lean angles achieved in the rain( compared to the dry).

 

Team don't use warmers. If you see them using them on rains, they are for there as covers. Even if they used them, its for a quick 5 min on the warmer and we don't even recommend that. Using warmers on a rain tire is very risky. I would not recommend it. I have observed several rains that melted, both before riding and after, because of using warmers on rains. "Using warmers on rains= buy a new set of rains"

[BLSJDS]

Thanks for the additional information, Steve!

 

PM sent re: Dunlop rain tires...

[Cobie Fair]

Thanks Steve, more urban legends disappear.

 

CF

[BLSJDS]

It looks like Dunlop only offers the rear rain tire in size 195/70-17. OEM for my bike ('08 CBR600RR) is 180/55-17. If my internet math is correct, the diameter of the Dunlop rain tire is almost 3" more than the the OEM tire. It is also a bit over .5" wider. The 180 is already tight, the 195 would have clearance issues and would cause bike set-up issues.

 

Will Dunlop soon make a 180/55-17 rain tire? Or do they currently, and I missed it?

 

Thanks-

Dan

[Mika]

Will Dunlop soon make a 180/55-17 rain tire? Or do they currently, and I missed it?

Dan;

When I purchased a set of Dunlop rains at a race it was recommended that althought I use a GP-A 180 or 190 in dry conditions that I should consider the 165 rear; the idea was that by reducing the size of the contact patch it would by extension also reduce the area that needed to be drained to avoid hydroplanning. Made sense to me.

 

Mika

[BLSJDS]

Mika - did you mean 165 (as written) or 195? If 195, did you have fitment / geometry issues?

 

Thanks!

Dan

[Mika]

Mika - did you mean 165 (as written) or 195? If 195, did you have fitment / geometry issues?

 

Thanks!

Dan

Dan;

165 - as written. It fit perfectly. Steve Brubaker will chime in here (I hope) but it is in the Dunlop Racing tire section in the "Fitment" guide.

 

Mika

[DUNLOP-RTS]

It looks like Dunlop only offers the rear rain tire in size 195/70-17. OEM for my bike ('08 CBR600RR) is 180/55-17. If my internet math is correct, the diameter of the Dunlop rain tire is almost 3" more than the the OEM tire. It is also a bit over .5" wider. The 180 is already tight, the 195 would have clearance issues and would cause bike set-up issues.

 

Will Dunlop soon make a 180/55-17 rain tire? Or do they currently, and I missed it?

 

Thanks-

Dan

 

Dan,

 

First off if you are going to the racetrack, take the word "OEM" out of your vocabulary when it comes to tires.

 

What the bike manufacture recommends for their bike on the street, under street conditions, and with lawyers all around, is its own separate thing.

 

Moving on to the racetrack, you should run what is recommended by the tire manufacture.

 

In your case you have a 5.5 rim on a current 600cc motorcycle. The 165 rain was designed to fit a 5.0-5.5 rim on 250 GP bikes. It works very well. You can also run that on a 600cc bike with 5.5 rim (just like yours) with great results. It looks small on the back of the bike, but still works well. (thanks Mika)

 

Additionally you can run our 195 rain on that bike. The 195 rain will fit a 5.5-6.25 rim. We also have had good results using that tire, and it won't hit the chain or swingarm. Go ahead and use either one, both work fine.

 

A key note here is when setting up for the track, DO NOT go out and try to figure the size of this, and the size of that, OEM this, and OEM that, when it comes to tires. Just ask what the TIRE manufacture recommends and use that.

 

Same thing would hold true for brake pads, shocks and other items. Think what Honda would say if you asked what brake pads to run? The answer would be " OEM Honda pads Part # xxxxxx". Never would the recommend Vesrah or EBC or others.