What Is The Superbike Cornering Mantra?

[Crash106]

The Motorcycle Safety Foundation teaches a four step cornering process and the catchy matnra: Slow, Look, Lean, Roll.

 

I just read "Maximum Control" by Pat Hahn and for heavyweight street bikes, he recommends: Slow, Roll, Look, Press.

 

So, what is the CSS mantra? Would it go like this?

 

• 
   
  
• Pick an entrance point
  
• Roll off the gas
  
• Look for the apex
  
• Quick turn the bike
  
• Roll on (and KEEP rolling on)
  

 

Just wondering.

[636rider]

The Motorcycle Safety Foundation teaches a four step cornering process and the catchy matnra: Slow, Look, Lean, Roll.

 

I just read "Maximum Control" by Pat Hahn and for heavyweight street bikes, he recommends: Slow, Roll, Look, Press.

 

So, what is the CSS mantra? Would it go like this?

 

• 
   
  
• Pick an entrance point
  
• Roll off the gas
  
• Look for the apex
  
• Quick turn the bike
  
• Roll on (and KEEP rolling on)
  

 

Just wondering.

 

I would say:

level 1,

level 2,

level 3,

level 4.........cannot be too far off.

[ktk_ace]

I'd say good hardware (proper tires and sus setup)  with good software ( TOTWII etc)

 

 

 

 

 

[khp]

I'd say that the CSS cornering 5-step program/mantra is:

1. braking

2. change gear

3. body position

4. turning

5. throttle roll-on

 

Each point should only be done once. Note that only one of the five steps are mandatory for all turns.

 

Which step is mandatory and why?

 

Kai

[matt17]

I'd say that the CSS cornering 5-step program/mantra is:

1. braking

2. change gear

3. body position

4. turning

5. throttle roll-on

 

Each point should only be done once. Note that only one of the five steps are mandatory for all turns.

 

Which step is mandatory and why?

 

Kai

4. turning

[Kevin Kane]

I think 636rider said it best.

 

There isn't a CSS mantra that summarizes Cornering and the training can't be simplified into a few key points; to try and do so misses the point of the whole School IMHO. I can't speak for the MSF because I have never attended but I have been to many classes at the California Superbike School and what I have learned is that Cornering is both an art and a science with a few mantras tossed in to boot. Like Throttle Control Rule no. 1 but even that has some caveats - a diminishing radius turn comes to mind.

 

Rain

[Hotfoot]

 

I would say:

level 1,

level 2,

level 3,

level 4.........cannot be too far off.

 

Hee Hee, I love this answer.

 

I think part of the idea of practicing the drills at the school is to get you to an understanding so you don't HAVE to talk to yourself as you ride around. That way your attention is on monitoring the flow of visual data and info from the bike about traction, etc., not on thinking about what to do.

[Deep]

Good lines follow the throttle control rule -- That's the most important thing Code

[Crash106]

How about this thought process based on Kieth's Four Rules from TOTWII?

 

1. 
    
   
2. CALCULATE your roll off carefully
   
3. TURN ONCE as quickly as necessary
   
4. ROLL ON through the remainder of the turn
   

 

That's only THREE things. Hmm, but nothing about vision in there. No, wait! Maybe step one CALCULATE is ALL about vision.

[Hotfoot]

How about this thought process based on Kieth's Four Rules from TOTWII?

 

 

1. CALCULATE your roll off carefully
   
2. TURN ONCE as quickly as necessary
   
3. ROLL ON through the remainder of the turn
   

 

That's only THREE things. Hmm, but nothing about vision in there. No, wait! Maybe step one CALCULATE is ALL about vision.

 

Here's some food for thought:

1. Can you calculate your roll-off without locating your turn point?

2. Can you know how MUCH or how QUICKLY to turn the bike if you haven't located your chosen apex?

3. Are you willing to roll on the gas if you can't see where you want to go?

 

I don't know how you could list vision as a discrete step - because there is no point where vision is no longer a requirement; as Keith says in the book, your vision should provide a flow of information. A choppy flow of visual info will result in choppy riding.

 

I appreciate that you are thinking things through, but I'm curious - why are you trying to make a mantra? What are you trying to accomplish by doing so?

[Crash106]

Here's some food for thought:

1. Can you calculate your roll-off without locating your turn point?

2. Can you know how MUCH or how QUICKLY to turn the bike if you haven't located your chosen apex?

3. Are you willing to roll on the gas if you can't see where you want to go?

 

I don't know how you could list vision as a discrete step - because there is no point where vision is no longer a requirement; as Keith says in the book, your vision should provide a flow of information. A choppy flow of visual info will result in choppy riding.

 

I appreciate that you are thinking things through, but I'm curious - why are you trying to make a mantra? What are you trying to accomplish by doing so?

 

Actually, Hotfoot, you hit on one of my big issues with the way most instructors teach the cornering process, vision either isn't mentioned at all, or is just reference once as one single step. Like you, I believe it has to be continuous, but how do you see AND setup, see AND steer. The mind has to either go back and forth between steps, or mentally focus on one thing (probably the seeing) and let everything else become automatic.

 

Another reason I LIKE cornering mantas (processes steps) is that they make mental practice easier. It is easier for me to imagine my way around a corner when I have those process reference points, not just visual reference points on the road, but also kinetic steps. This kind of practice is very safe. I haven't been hurt doing it yet!

 

AND I kind of like to think things through this way because it can help me get through a new corner, or get around a corner when I'm stressed or tired or just want a mental game to play as I ride. It gives me ONE way to move my attention around in the corner. It is also a nice crutch. On days when I can't ride with that effortless flow, I can always connect the dots and feel pretty good on the bike.

 

I'm not stuck on using a mantra all the time. It's just a fun tool and good experience to try cornering in different ways. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

[BLSJDS]

Actually, Hotfoot, you hit on one of my big issues with the way most instructors teach the cornering process, vision either isn't mentioned at all, or is just reference once as one single step. Like you, I believe it has to be continuous, but how do you see AND setup, see AND steer. The mind has to either go back and forth between steps, or mentally focus on one thing (probably the seeing) and let everything else become automatic.

 

Another reason I LIKE cornering mantas (processes steps) is that they make mental practice easier. It is easier for me to imagine my way around a corner when I have those process reference points, not just visual reference points on the road, but also kinetic steps. This kind of practice is very safe. I haven't been hurt doing it yet!

 

AND I kind of like to think things through this way because it can help me get through a new corner, or get around a corner when I'm stressed or tired or just want a mental game to play as I ride. It gives me ONE way to move my attention around in the corner. It is also a nice crutch. On days when I can't ride with that effortless flow, I can always connect the dots and feel pretty good on the bike.

 

I'm not stuck on using a mantra all the time. It's just a fun tool and good experience to try cornering in different ways. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

 

Most instructors? At what school / organization? Certainly not at CSS. In fact, Level II is almost ENTIRELY devoted to vision drills. And I've spent several hours in Level IV on vision drills as well. Keith specifically mentioned that it is Rossi's vision that separated him from the rest, just to further emphasize the point.

 

Your last sentence in the first paragraph sums it up perfectly; your vision will provide the information you need and with (lots and lots of) practice, the rest (throttle control, body positioning, steering, etc) becomes automatic.

 

The skills taught at CSS are designed to build upon one another, but I don't think a "mantra" would do the program justice. Many of these techniques must be done at the same time vs one after the other. You might be able to break down each single DRILL or TECHNIQUE into a mantra or 3-4 step process, but not the school's overall program.

 

Have you done any of the Levels at CSS or trackdays with a local club? If so, you know that riding on the track is VERY different from riding on the street. There is just no comparison at the more advanced levels.

[Kevin Kane]

AND I kind of like to think things through this way because it can help me get through a new corner, or get around a corner when I'm stressed or tired or just want a mental game to play as I ride. It gives me ONE way to move my attention around in the corner. It is also a nice crutch. On days when I can't ride with that effortless flow, I can always connect the dots and feel pretty good on the bike.

 

I'm not stuck on using a mantra all the time. It's just a fun tool and good experience to try cornering in different ways. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

Crash;

In fairness to you, I think some of us have been to numerous Schools and have done countless track days (and even raced a little bit) so our reference point to cornering questions may be different from those who have never ridden a lap on a closed circuit race course. I know that when I see a question here my tendency is to recall what corner at which track could help me comprehend the question the best, dismissing almost entirely that the reference could be county road or city street. Even though I still street ride, it isn't with the same intensity as track riding where I need to process a lot of information in a very compressed time frame. That's why your initial question about reducing the process into three or four things seemed anathema to me at least.

 

That said I recognize that there are some incredibly experienced and gifted riders up here who don't track ride and could ride circles around me regardless so my sincere hope for you is that you get to VIR in May so you can begin to integrate Keith's techniques into your riding. For me anyway reading the books and watching the videos could only take me so far...the rest came from my time in class followed by my experience on the track with my on-track and off-track coaches

 

Rain

[636rider]

..

The skills taught at CSS are designed to build upon one another, but I don't think a "mantra" would do the program justice. Many of these techniques must be done at the same time vs one after the other. You might be able to break down each single DRILL or TECHNIQUE into a mantra or 3-4 step process, but not the school's overall program.

..

 

Agree with BLSJDS very much.

 

It was not until level 3 that I could make better use of stuff learned at level 1.

For example, Quick-Turn at level 1 was struggling at corners. With level 2, and 3 skills, quick turn may be your way to pass your classmates (at least those who were struggling at corners without level 2 and 3 skills). It seems difficult to determine the best one, or few steps/skills; we need them all.

 

Anyone else find his/her Quick-Turns at level 1 is different from those at later classes- though same concept or drill?

[ktk_ace]

 

Another reason I LIKE cornering mantas (processes steps) is that they make mental practice easier. It is easier for me to imagine my way around a corner when I have those process reference points, not just visual reference points on the road, but also kinetic steps. This kind of practice is very safe. I haven't been hurt doing it yet!

 

AND I kind of like to think things through this way because it can help me get through a new corner, or get around a corner when I'm stressed or tired or just want a mental game to play as I ride. It gives me ONE way to move my attention around in the corner. It is also a nice crutch. On days when I can't ride with that effortless flow, I can always connect the dots and feel pretty good on the bike.

 

I'm not stuck on using a mantra all the time. It's just a fun tool and good experience to try cornering in different ways. Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

 

IMHO spending your 10 dollars worth on a "little mental game" and not the corner is not what i'd call concentration on the corner

 

I'd call that a distraction on public roads....

 

 

 

[BLSJDS]

It was not until level 3 that I could make better use of stuff learned at level 1.For example, Quick-Turn at level 1 was struggling at corners. With level 2, and 3 skills, quick turn may be your way to pass your classmates (at least those who were struggling at corners without level 2 and 3 skills). It seems difficult to determine the best one, or few steps/skills; we need them all.

 

Anyone else find his/her Quick-Turns at level 1 is different from those at later classes- though same concept or drill?

 

Absolutely. It was not until Level III that the skills & techniques really "clicked" or fell into place for me, including the Quick Turn. At the slower pace I was riding in Levels I & II, the quick turn didn't have as much impact and I didn't think I was getting a benefit from it. As my pace & skill level increased (I made the biggest gains in Level III), suddenly the quick turn was like gold and offered a HUGE benefit. Without a doubt, the faster you go, the more important all of these skills become.