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Hi Forum! (on Mar 8, 2013, I re-named this thread, its mostly on hydration).

 

I wanted to introduce the new forum, let you know what will be up here and the purpose.

 

We quite regularly get questions on fitness for riding. Even more than that we get questions on hydration and electrolytes--students often don't know the reason they are tired, just dragging ass, run out of steam "the heat takes it out of me". I would say that is one of the key factors in students getting tired later in the day, and on hot days sometimes not even able to finish the whole school day--that makes me very unhappy as a coach, I can't do my job!

 

I contacted a good friend of mine, Dr. Stephen Price. I've known him for about 30 years, and for the last few years have been using his new line of vitamins and hydration products (with superb results). I've managed to trick him into coming up here and see if we can get some good data on these subjects, as they relate to riding, and the specific problems riders encounter. Talking to him recenlty, he'd helped a triathlete knock 30 minutes off his best time (that guy was pretty pleased I imagine).

 

Today is the tease, let you know it's really coming. Also give you a chance to get your questions ready. He's scheduled to begin next week. I hope to get some good reference data up here and the key topics we can pin.

 

As always like your guys feedback on this, don't be bashful.

 

Best,

Cobie

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Thanks Rainman!

 

Talked to Dr Price's assistant, a few details to iron out but still aiming to go live this coming week.

 

CF

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I have arrived!

 

This is my first forum and I am excited but there will be a learning curve so bear with me.

 

Let's start off talking about hydration as Cobie mentioned above.

 

Hydration is basically how much water can be held in and between the cells in your body. The things that hold the water there are called electrolytes. There are five main electrolytes. Salt, which is sodium and chloride, is the most important.

Salt is lost when you sweat (you can taste it). Without enough salt in your body the body will die. So there are mechanisms in place to prevent this from happening. To make it simple, when you become salt deficient your adrenal glands stop making adrenaline and start making a hormone called aldosterone.

Aldosterone prevents salt from leaving the body through sweat and/or urination. Because adrenaline is no longer being produced you will feel extremely fatigued, exhausted and weak. Your muscle response time becomes worse and you become mentally fatigued as well. It is important that you have the right balance of electrolytes and water when sweating.

 

Let me know if you guys have any questions regarding this or any other topic.

 

Best,

 

Dr. Stephen Price, D.C.

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Welcome Dr. Price! So glad you are taking the time out of a busy schedule (I'm sure) to make time for us.

 

My quesiton:

I am about 45% into my fitness plan for the off season. I have a question about water. Specifically the amount needed per day with an aggressive workout + mild cardio plan. I have read "a gallon per day", other say more. I have also been told that is to much. I find it very hard to get a gallon of water down every single day.

 

Workouts are about 45min to 60min long of high intensity weight lifting plus about 30-40 mins of cardio 5 days a week. 3k calories per day mostly in the form of protein, carbs and veggies with some fiber in there too.

 

Thanks for you time.

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I do have questions on hydration, didn't know about the adrenal glands at all.

 

What is an approximate ratio to take? Salt (and other electrolytes) and water? How does one feel/sense if he is low on an electrolyte? The major symptom I get is tired and headaches. Normally I take potassium to help and it does, as I intake a lot of salt in my diet. But sometimes I think the ratio gets off.

 

Again, the biggest problem I face is headaches at the end of a school day, when we've ridden 15 sessions, salt doesn't always seem to help...

 

Another symptom I notice is my hands and feet swell...I'd been told by another doctor this was low on potassium.

 

CF

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Csmith12,

 

Once your body is hydrated you only need to replenish what is lost. An average person on an average day in an average climate will lose about a half an ounce per pound that they way. Under your workout routine you will be losing about a half an ounce per min. that you are working out. So you would add approximately 30 ounces per hour of hard workout. Also, 1,000mg of salt to replenish what is lost during sweating.

 

Dr. Price

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Cobie,

 

Salt is mainly lost when you sweat at a rate of 1,000 mg per liter of sweat. Replenishing it in that exact balance prevents too much salt or too much water from being consumed. So that would be 500mg of salt for every 16oz of water when you're sweating.

 

Potassium is mainly lost in the urine and needed to balance salt concentrations in the body. The exact dose of potassium is not that important as the body will manage it on its own. I like approximately 300 mg of potassium for every 500 mg of salt when sweating.

 

The main symptom for potassium deficiency is an unquenchable thirst with frequent urination.

 

Some of the latest research suggest that a bloated athlete has simply consumed too much water and possibly not enough electrolytes.

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Dr. Price,

 

We ride in very hot temps and high humidity conditions. We end up losing a lot of fluid sweating. The biggest problem besides fatigue I face is cramps all over the body; thighs, calves, abdominal area, etc. Just salt replenishment doesn't work, the only thing that seems to help is consuming bananas.

 

What would you advise for our conditions? When you say salt does it mean the normal table salt variety or some exotic cocktail available as sports drinks?

 

Thanks

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My question also goes after the cramp issue;

 

I have on occassion gotten cramps in my leg(s). This has only happened when it has been pretty hot or very cold and typically after some seriously fun riding.

 

ie, back to back 30 minute track sessions, endurance race events where on the bike for over an hour.

 

I make it a point to drink, 3,4 somtimes even 5 of the 32 ounces Gatorade, Powerade type drinks(usually slightly dilluted with water, perhaps 8 ounces water after drinking some of the pure out of the container) when at the track or even on very hot days and long street rides on fun roads. I also try to start this process atleast 24 hours early, so I feel my body is starting out ahead of the game as far as hydration.

Is there a better mix? I am not really a water drinker unless it is straight out of the hose outside.

 

Looking at the label;

32 ounces has

150mg Sodium

35mg Potassium

20G Sugar

 

So the ratio 300mg/500mg you indicated is not what that supplies, how big an issue is that?

 

Is its second ingredient as high fructose corn syrup killing it?

 

Then like my name indicates, I drink too much pepsi, more sugar. I prefer the throwback but any regular Pepsi will do.

 

12 ounce can;

40mg sodium

40G sugar

 

Above are likely the worst things I actually consume. I have no doubt the 3+ cans of Pepsi a day does little more than satisfy my taste buds.

 

I tend to eat many (3-5)bananas everyday anyways and think that helps, plus the rest of my diet is pretty healthy, I rarely ever eat out and do eat lots of fruits, vegetables and chicken although I love red meat and bacon, but only cook the 3lb pack of bacon about once every 4-6 weeks, then it lasts about 2 weeks. I love some bacon crumbs on my chicken salad or in a burger. As far as the red meat, it is about once a week to ten days in the winter and perhaps twice a week in the summer, Grilling time.

 

 

 

How does one really know how much fluid they are sweating out? I have to stop and urinate about every 90 minutes when I am drinking so much, but my shirt is usually stuck to me on the hot days and I tend to sweat plenty.

 

Sorry, kind of went astray.

 

 

And thank you very much for your input.

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Cobie,

 

Salt is mainly lost when you sweat at a rate of 1,000 mg per liter of sweat. Replenishing it in that exact balance prevents too much salt or too much water from being consumed. So that would be 500mg of salt for every 16oz of water when you're sweating.

 

Potassium is mainly lost in the urine and needed to balance salt concentrations in the body. The exact dose of potassium is not that important as the body will manage it on its own. I like approximately 300 mg of potassium for every 500 mg of salt when sweating.

 

The main symptom for potassium deficiency is an unquenchable thirst with frequent urination.

 

Some of the latest research suggest that a bloated athlete has simply consumed too much water and possibly not enough electrolytes.

 

Dr Price,

 

Potassium defiency, sounds like I'm short on electrolytes then, as I don't think I'm drinking enough water (rarely urinate).

 

I'm going to review what's on your hydration mix, see how much I should be putting in my water.

 

Best,

CF

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I'm wondering about recovery. After a lot of riding - especially multiple days in heat - what is the best thing for quickest recovery (both rehydration and energy level)? Should I be taking potassium and salt at the END of the day, whether I feel like I need it not? Is drinking Gatorade after heavy exercise a good thing, or is the corn syrup bad for you? Is there somthing better? ( I can't have anything with aspartame in it, so I stay away from any sugarfree drinks.)

 

What about for muscle recovery? If you KNOW you have just done some heavy work or exercise that is going to make your muscles very sore, are there any supplements that help minimize the soreness?

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Guys, at this point I'm going to chime in on something, just so its clear: Dr. Price has a line of supplements and hydration mix, that I have been using with very good results for over a year. It is 100% my idea to bring him on, he didn't ask me as a ploy to promote his goods

 

With that in mind, I'm going to invite him to talk about those products, as applicable. I think many might like to try them, and he has products available in more than just the US.

 

I basically consider this a service to us.

 

Any whinging/whining about that, address to me
:)
.

 

Best,

Cobie

 

---------------

ps--no one has commented about my new picture...its the winter mode! Anyone see my high-tech warmth inner layer?
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IndianFighter,

 

The main reasons for cramping over the entire body is salt deficiency and/or dehydration. You would be shocked at the amount of salt you require to maintain proper hydration. There are no sports drinks that I know of that have sufficient electrolytes to maintain proper hydration for high performance athletes like yourself. The human body has the capability to sweat one gallon per hour. It requires 500mg of salt for every 16 ounces of sweat lost. So it would require 4,000mg of salt for every gallon of water you drink to replace the sweat lost. Also, potassium is important because it allows the body to manage salt better. So the fact that bananas help you could be because you need potassium as well. My Super Hydration formula can be mixed in 16oz of water or added to a sports drink to bring the proper amount of salt, potassium and minerals you need.

The five main electrolytes that the body requires for good hydration are sodium and chloride (salt), potassium, calcium, and magnesium. Salt (sodium and chloride) and potassium are the three most important.

My opinion is that you don't have enough electrolytes and water and that's why you cramp. And also salt is just salt. There is no special salt that you need. Any salt will do.

 

Best,

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Pepsi Drinker,

 

First read above. Then, because your cramps are not all over the body your main electrolyte deficiency is not only salt and potassium (as you pointed out the ratio in gatorade is insufficient) it is calcium as well. So, you should be taking a calcium supplement the day before, the morning of, and during your rides. Along with your salt and potassium. It has been shown that pepsi, coke and other high acid drinks take calcium from the body and will cause a calcium deficiency. And based on what you said I believe that that is what your problem is.

 

When it comes to food I am a great believer that you should eat a wide variety of foods. Protein is used to repair muscles and tissues so there should be some protein in every meal. The high fructose corn syrup and other simple carbohydrates are basically sugar. Sugar is used to produce energy in the cells. So, it isn't what you are eating or drinking it is how much of it. Too much sugar can cause a reaction that produces great weakness and fatigue called hypoglycemia. So, moderation in all food types is recommended.

 

Best,

 

Dr. Price

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Hotfoot,

 

Rehydration is electrolytes and water. Recovery, I have found, is fruit sugar i.e. fresh fruit. Because it goes directly to the muscle and does not need insulin. So it does not affect the blood sugar adversely. You also need to include protein. But it needs to be light protein. Something around the lines of fish, chicken, eggs, tofu, beans, lentils, etc. Red meat would be considered a heavy protein. You will also need calcium. Small doses of calcium and frequently. A liquid calcium is preferred so that it can be sipped on every half hour during recovery until you feel recovered. Calcium will help reduce the soreness and good protein will allow the muscles to heal. And proper hydration will allow the lactic acid to be removed more quickly speeding recovery.

 

To clarify high fructose corn syrup is not fructose. High fructose corn syrup acts just like sugar and affects insulin levels. And drinking gatorade after is not necessarily that good because it affects blood sugar levels adversely and can actually prolong recovery. The solution would be fresh water and fruit. For fruit it can be apples, bananas, citrus fruits, and berries. Along with the calcium and other electrolytes.

 

Best,

 

Dr. Price

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In general,

 

There is a ROUGH estimate for your hydration.

 

A gallon of water weighs 8 pounds. If you weigh yourself before the ride and weigh yourself after the ride you can get a rough concept of how well you maintained your hydration during the ride. If you lost weight you did not hydrate properly. If you gained weight you simply drank too much while you were riding.

 

Because there are so many variables, this is not an accurate scientific indicator. But it can give you a very good idea of where you stand in hydration.

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IndianFighter,

 

The main reasons for cramping over the entire body is salt deficiency and/or dehydration. You would be shocked at the amount of salt you require to maintain proper hydration. There are no sports drinks that I know of that have sufficient electrolytes to maintain proper hydration for high performance athletes like yourself. The human body has the capability to sweat one gallon per hour. It requires 500mg of salt for every 16 ounces of sweat lost. So it would require 4,000mg of salt for every gallon of water you drink to replace the sweat lost. Also, potassium is important because it allows the body to manage salt better. So the fact that bananas help you could be because you need potassium as well. My Super Hydration formula can be mixed in 16oz of water or added to a sports drink to bring the proper amount of salt, potassium and minerals you need.

The five main electrolytes that the body requires for good hydration are sodium and chloride (salt), potassium, calcium, and magnesium. Salt (sodium and chloride) and potassium are the three most important.

My opinion is that you don't have enough electrolytes and water and that's why you cramp. And also salt is just salt. There is no special salt that you need. Any salt will do.

 

Best,

 

Thanks Dr. Price. I had no idea I would be needing this much amount of salt. I sweat more than the average person and while riding and/or exercise it is greatly multiplied.

 

I take 500 mg of calcium citrate malate with vitamin d3 every morning, I do this since I lift heavy weights in the gym and have been advised to do so. Should I increase the mg or is this enough?

 

Being in India, would be a little difficult getting your hydration mix but I'll look into placing a consolidated order for my entire group.

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Great stuff Dr Price, really some data I was hoping to get up here!

 

2 things: can you pleaes put up a link to your site. If you have any suggestions for the forum members, or just review the site for data on what we should/coudl consume?

 

Back to headaches for a minute, as I get those...did I miss the cause of those? I've done better this last year with mix than ever before, but I don't always get it right (still get headaches sometimes).

 

Best,

CF

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