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Are Tire Warmers Effective For Q3 Or Similar Sport Tires?

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I'm thinking to buy dual-temp tire warmers for my Michelin Pilot tires. The first few laps of the morning sessions feel always a bit sketchy, especially on the left side at NJMP, where most turns are on the right.

Can tire warmers help for this kind of tires? Why the school doesn't use them for the Dunlop Q3? Maybe because bikes are constantly in and out of the track?

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IMHO my 2C:

The Q3's might be included in a drill where you learn to warm up the tires to working temps hence the maybe lack of tire warmers.

Also if said drill is geared more for the real world... you wont warm up your tires for your commute to work wont you?

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What I know:

 

1) The sessions start off fairly slow during the school, and yes, the bikes are constantly in motion except for first session of day and first after lunch

2) Q3s warm up fast. 1 spirited lap is usually all you need. Obviously you need to adjust based on ambient/track temp.

 

If you use warmers on a cold day it's not going to fix everything obviously because if the track is cold, it's going to cool your tires down too.

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I agree one lap is all you need, but since you have to plan all that logistic and budget to go the track, I'd rather be able to run all my laps comfortably than "wait" to warm up tires. Also many crashes happen in the first laps of the first few sessions, so maybe using tire warmers can reduce that risk a bit, even on street tires?

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Not to mention the manpower required to put on and remove warmers from a fleet of 20-30 bikes , and the need for the additional sets of stands for every bike, that's a logistical nightmare

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WIth the pace of a school there would not really be enough time for the warmers to actually work. The bikes are on the track most of the day with perhaps 5-10 minutes of downtime between sessions if you were lucky. Factor in the time to get them on the stands and the warmers would not have any time to get the tire up to temp before the next round of students were ready to head out on track. Those BMW's and the on track coaches have a very busy day. :)

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Very cool, but I wonder how useful it really is in a practical application sense. For example, I'm guessing it probably only tells you the surface temperature of the tire and not the temperature of the carcass which is what really matters. You could do a burn out on a cold tire and make the surface hot, but try to rail it through a corner and it would barely grip better than a fully cold tire so I wonder if you could possibly get a false sense of security. Another thing I learned the hard way is that one side of the tire can be a very different temperature than the other which will affect your grip on right vs. left handers. If you get it telling you the middle is hot and it turns out an edge is barely warm, you may be too confident throwing it into a corner. I wonder if you can get a separate reading somehow on right vs. left side. I'd be surprised if you could get that kind of fidelity but it would be a really awesome tool if you could.

 

Benny

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Saw that on Sportbiketrackgear's facebook feed. A VERY cool accessory.

 

I'm heading to the track this weekend and it's supposed to be pretty cool for a change. As an experiment I'm bringing my warmers with me. I'll see if I can do some measurements in the name of science and see if they actually do any good.

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Very cool, but I wonder how useful it really is in a practical application sense. For example, I'm guessing it probably only tells you the surface temperature of the tire and not the temperature of the carcass which is what really matters. You could do a burn out on a cold tire and make the surface hot, but try to rail it through a corner and it would barely grip better than a fully cold tire so I wonder if you could possibly get a false sense of security. Another thing I learned the hard way is that one side of the tire can be a very different temperature than the other which will affect your grip on right vs. left handers. If you get it telling you the middle is hot and it turns out an edge is barely warm, you may be too confident throwing it into a corner. I wonder if you can get a separate reading somehow on right vs. left side. I'd be surprised if you could get that kind of fidelity but it would be a really awesome tool if you could.

 

Benny

 

I think for it to be useful you would have to use it comparatively - what I envision would be taking the bike off warmers and looking at the temp display. Say, for example, it reads 180 degrees. Then you run your warm up lap for a race, on a warm day, and get to the starting grid. Check the temp display, it says 175. You start your race, the tires feel good, at the end of the race you check again and the display says 185. Ok, now you have a baseline - it was a warm day, warm track, everything felt good, your tires were staying hot or heating up more in the race.

 

Next time you race it is a cool day. You check the temp right off the warmers, 180. Then at the grid after your warm up lap on a cold track the display reads 140. You take off and the tires still feel perfect. OK, next time you race on a cool day if the temp reads 140 you know you are probably reasonably OK on the tires, but if it reads 85 you know they are much colder than the last time and you might want to be more cautious in Turn 1.

 

That is how I would imaging using this thing - sometimes we get stuck waiting to enter the track due to a track cleanup and it seems impossible to guess how much your tires are cooling down as you sit and wait - especially if the wind is blowing. But you can't be TOO conservative on a race start or you lose a ton of positions! So it would seem to be an advantage if you have a way to quantify how much your tires have cooled off especially if competitors do not have that ability.

 

Certainly it would have to be used with caution because yes, the surface temp can be warm before the carcass - like if you only put warmers on for a short time - and a surface temp reading would be deceptive.

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That's exactly what I had in mind as well. Sort of a visual reminder so you know where you are temp wise rather than just having to guess.

 

Even for track days this would be helpful. Q3's warm up fast but "how fast". With that accessory you have a bit more data than you would have otherwise.

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Supposedly it looks across your whole tire and shows you some sort of average, I think. Not just right in the middle. No, it's not going to be as accurate as a probe, but it's way better than your gut feeling, I'd imagine.

 

Do MotoGP bikes have some sort of temp sensor? I'd expect they do. Anyone know what kind?

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I think for it to be useful you would have to use it comparatively - what I envision would be taking the bike off warmers and looking at the temp display. Say, for example, it reads 180 degrees. Then you run your warm up lap for a race, on a warm day, and get to the starting grid. Check the temp display, it says 175. You start your race, the tires feel good, at the end of the race you check again and the display says 185. Ok, now you have a baseline - it was a warm day, warm track, everything felt good, your tires were staying hot or heating up more in the race.

Next time you race it is a cool day. You check the temp right off the warmers, 180. Then at the grid after your warm up lap on a cold track the display reads 140. You take off and the tires still feel perfect. OK, next time you race on a cool day if the temp reads 140 you know you are probably reasonably OK on the tires, but if it reads 85 you know they are much colder than the last time and you might want to be more cautious in Turn 1.

 

That is how I would imaging using this thing - sometimes we get stuck waiting to enter the track due to a track cleanup and it seems impossible to guess how much your tires are cooling down as you sit and wait - especially if the wind is blowing. But you can't be TOO conservative on a race start or you lose a ton of positions! So it would seem to be an advantage if you have a way to quantify how much your tires have cooled off especially if competitors do not have that ability.

 

Certainly it would have to be used with caution because yes, the surface temp can be warm before the carcass - like if you only put warmers on for a short time - and a surface temp reading would be deceptive.

 

Makes good sense to me. Maybe we can talk Cobie into putting one on a coach bike and gather some data to see if it is really usable. If so, it may help prevent coach cold tire crashes.

 

Benny

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So for Micheline Pilot or similar (including Q3), tire warmers or not? I've seen Moto-D for $350 and $180 from Pit-Posse. Why the large difference?

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So for Micheline Pilot or similar (including Q3), tire warmers or not? I've seen Moto-D for $350 and $180 from Pit-Posse. Why the large difference?

I can't answer whether warmers work well on Q3s, but I can help with the price difference question. I have owned three different brands of tire warmers and the Moto-Ds are superior by a long shot. They are super easy and quick to put on and take off, they cover the tire and rim very well and they are touted to be much more resistant to shorting out or hotspots, and that has been my experience with them.

 

I use the single temp Moto-Ds, but they also have multi temp ones with a digital display.

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I wonder if someone can come up with a wind chill factor chart....like they have in colder countries.A chart showing tire temperature with respect to temperature and wind speed.

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Someone posted pic's of the Attack Kawasaki CRT bike a few years back and all the DAQ stuff it had, it included 3 IR temp sensors on the rear tire, each side and the middle. I'm going to guess the most effective use of that kind of information is really tire compound choice and pressure, you're not going to really look at the tire temp mid lap and adjust your pace, but after a practice session you can review the data and adjust the pressure or compound your running based on the recorded data.

 

If you happen to have a DAQ system with open Analog or Digital inputs, you can probably add that functionality for considerably less than the cost of that system, although it might not be as sleek and pretty a addition to your cockpit

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So I literally just got back from the track. I ran warmers on my Q3's as an experiment and here's my results.

 

This was my first time using tire warmers ever and I even needed help getting them on the bike. Temps started out at 42 degrees and climbed to 72 degrees later in the day. I started my pressure at 31/30 cold and then later on adjusted them to 32/26 hot based on some advice I got at the track. I was too busy riding to do any other testing such as surface temp. I had great grip all day.

 

IMG_0662.JPG

 

The Million dollar question is of course were they effective. I'm going to go with a yes on this. Heading out onto the track I had grip right away. This was a standard track day and not a race but knowing my tires were "as warm as they could be" from the start reduced the things I had to worry about. Those first few "cold" corners I was not as concerned about grip and it made more space in my mind to concentrate on the riding. They are a bit of a pain to put on but I got used to it after a few times. They may or may not have actually given me any more additional grip but they did help free my attention away from the tires on a cold day. That helped me a lot by providing a bit of peace of mind and made my track day more enjoyable.

 

My advice would be to try it yourself and see how it works for you. If you can save $1 of your $10 of attention that's worth the hassle of extension cords and stands. At least for me. Your mileage may vary. :)

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That is what I find interesting about the Q3's. The guy at our track that runs those on a BMW also keeps his pressures that low. On my 650 though, they are very squirrely. Enough so that I don't trust them enough to even attempt to get heat in them. Maybe if I had tire warmers, it would be different.

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I just found this on the interwebs for the Q3:

 

 

 

If you are riding on the street, read your owners manual for recommended tire pressures. If you are riding on the race track, a good starting point is 32 front and 32 rear cold. After riding on the track and before you go on the street, let your tires cool, then adjust back to the pressures recommended in your bikes owners manual, Warmers are optional, but if you choose to use them, you can get tire warmer recommendations herehttp://www.dunlopracing.com/Warmers.pdf .

 

Source is here: http://dunlopracing.com/technical-info/

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