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Weighting A Footpeg - Inside Or Outside?


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#41 Jason Woods

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Posted 20 February 2011 - 09:51 AM

Good stuff, you've been "armed" then, here's something to try if you want: Try rotating on the bike and using your calf to lock on for a few corners (lower speed and at a safe place like a track), takes an AWEFUL lot of effort.... no wonder the big guys are paid the big bucks to be athletes... they get those legs working for them (they have to, otherwise they couldnt be nice and loose on the bars) but at the cost of extreme physical training regimes.

So yep, it sure is possible, but it's just a question of how fit you are and where you focus your fitness.
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#42 warregl

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Posted 21 February 2011 - 01:43 PM

...Pick a pro rider that might prefer to get his or her butt off the seat more, which leaves their upper body high and a little crossed up, as they've rotated around the tank they can't use the outside quads, so they're using their calf muscles, abductors, heel, butt, elbow etc ANYTHING they can to get the best lock on possible...


It amazes me, they are living personification of being "in-tune" with their machines. I know that's why they are where they are but it's amazing non the less, probably more so since I know how bloody hard it is for my uncoordinated carcass. And you are dead on about their conditioning, they are serious athletes, anyone who doubts that just needs to spend a day at the track!
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#43 CBRKid

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 03:32 PM

Hi Ventodue,

Hi and welcome to the forum. Let me answer your questions. :)


In chapter 19 of TWT II, Keith is talking about pivot steering. He emphasises the importance of weighting the outside peg, writing, for example on page 85:
"Using the outside peg as your pivot point ... reduces your weight on the seat and puts the majority of your weight on that lower, outside peg".


Keith being very thorough says the lower peg, because some sport bikes have rear passenger pegs which would be considered upper. So that would eliminate any confusion on which peg to pivot from.



Sorry for butting in an old post, I have not been on the site for months!!!

My impression about the lower, outside peg, spoken about above was that it was the outside peg, yes, and that that peg is lower than the seat, as Mr Code specifically speaks about getting the weight off the seat, and onto that lower (lower than the seat)...

Is that a correct interpretation of the quote as well??? That is what I always thought he meant...

Just my $0.02
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#44 Pete Castanik

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Posted 03 March 2011 - 08:53 PM

How can you lean to the inside of the bike and not have weight on the inside peg?


I'm not sure you got a full answer on this.

When we are talking about hanging-off, there will be some weight on the inside peg; it's pretty much unavoidable. There is a difference between someone "weighting" the peg and having weight on the peg. Weighting the peg by putting forcing on it is unnecessary, and will not steer the bike effectively. Having a little bit of weight to help support some mass (like your leg) is okay. Most of the body weight should be held onto the bike via the lock-on (by pivoting off the outside peg and wedging the knee/thigh into the tank).

Make sense?
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#45 Ventodue

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 11:36 AM

I'm not sure you got a full answer on this. When we are talking about hanging-off, <snip>

Make sense?


Does to me, Pete - thanks :) .

I should say that I did eventually get round to taking Cobie's advice and try weighting the inside, just to see what happens. This was only on the road, not track, so I couldn't be too scientific about it. But I did find it pretty awkward. As expected, it contributed nothing to the steering; but it also felt quite wrong. I found myself gripping the bars too much 'cos fixing on to the tank was hard and ... eurgh! I don't know. It was just wrong ...

So, in conclusion, I don't really get Nick Ienatsch's advice. Sure, you have to support yourself a bit on the inside peg. But I don't think that amounts to "weighting " it. But I do know that I can feel myself, thru the sole of my boot, pushing really quite hard on the outside peg, certainly on anything that requires a bit of steering effort.

"Make sense?" :D

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#46 Cobie Fair

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Posted 04 March 2011 - 08:55 PM

Yep does to us.

The whole peg weigting, body positioning, steering, anchoring to the bike, and the relative effect on the bike and line, is an interesting subject, one that we see a lot of interesting in from the students (and the coaches too :rolleyes: ).

There are a number of distinct pieces to it! Glad we had Keith around to figure them out for us!

CF

#47 Ridiculefr35

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 06:18 PM

Hi folks, interesting discussion here and concerns some of my current uncertainties while steering the bike into a curve.

Currently, if I were approaching a right handed curve, I'd get the braking and gear changing sorted before entry point.
I've identified my entry point, I can pretty much tell where the apex should be and the exit point I either can or cannot see depending on the road ahead.
When I arrive toward entry point, I push right (counter steeing) to go right, simultaneously weighting the inner peg.
The bike tips into the turn......inside knee is outward and inner peg unweighted with weight now shifted to outer peg, to leverage the outside knee against the tank(left side of tank).

Should I be weighting the inner peg on entry then transferring weight to outer peg as leverage ou should I be weight the outside peg only, forgetting the whole weight the inside peg?

Rgds/Ridiculefr35

#48 Crash106

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 09:08 PM

I think what Nick was getting at was moving your weight to the inside of the turn so the bike can remain more upright. If you are sitting at your computer, try this:

  • Put your feet flat on the floor (they might need to be outside the legs of your chair--a hard chair might work better too)
  • Leave your hands on the keyboard/bars, then lift your butt off your seat and "hang off" toward the right side of your chair
  • Now try the left side
  • Now try and get "crossed up," with your butt one way and your shoulders the other way

So, that was fun. Right? But what is your butt telling you?

  • Where is the tension in your legs?
  • If you are hanging off the right side, which quad gets tired first, right leg or left leg?
  • In order to move without putting weight on your arms, what do you have to do with your upper body?
  • If you keep your legs still, how much can you shift your weight, just by leaning forward and onto one butt cheek?
  • Is it more comfortable to tense your back, or your abs?

Granted, centrifugal force changes this dynamic a bit by holding you down in the seat. At the same time, you can still feel interesting things happening that you might not notice with everything else happening on your bike.
Best Wishes,
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#49 fossilfuel

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 02:37 PM


How can you lean to the inside of the bike and not have weight on the inside peg?


I'm not sure you got a full answer on this.

When we are talking about hanging-off, there will be some weight on the inside peg; it's pretty much unavoidable. There is a difference between someone "weighting" the peg and having weight on the peg. Weighting the peg by putting forcing on it is unnecessary, and will not steer the bike effectively. Having a little bit of weight to help support some mass (like your leg) is okay. Most of the body weight should be held onto the bike via the lock-on (by pivoting off the outside peg and wedging the knee/thigh into the tank).

Make sense?


Thanks Pete. My question was rhetorical :) You are correct there is a difference in weighting the peg and putting weight on the peg. I have not found any benefit in "weighting pegs" unless it comes as a product of shifting position otherwise it is just a waste of energy. Most racers I know use their inside peg as a pivot for their foot pointing out towards the corner and also as an anchor to get off the bike and leaned in.
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#50 Pete Castanik

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 09:56 PM

Oops. I missed the rhetorical part. :blink: I would agree with you on using the peg to swing out your knee.
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#51 Bullet

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 10:14 AM

Should I be weighting the inner peg on entry then transferring weight to outer peg as leverage ou should I be weight the outside peg only, forgetting the whole weight the inside peg?

Rgds/Ridiculefr35


Hi Ridiculefr35


To answer this question, you will carry weight on the inside peg, but you base/stability comes from the outside peg. If you lean off too far on the inside (well I always find), you'll have achy knees). Now, as tto timing? When do you think it might be better to this in the turn, before the turn? What difference would it make with each approach?

Bullet

#52 Ridiculefr35

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 12:16 PM

Hi Ridiculefr35
To answer this question, you will carry weight on the inside peg, but you base/stability comes from the outside peg. If you lean off too far on the inside (well I always find), you'll have achy knees). Now, as tto timing? When do you think it might be better to this in the turn, before the turn? What difference would it make with each approach?

Bullet


Hi Bullet and thank you for addressing my question. :D
To answer your following question, I'd say:
- before the turn both pegs evenly carrying weight.
- into the turn(right hander), inner peg is biased for weight(to help initiate the turn?) but outer peg is "ready"
- turning in, outside peg becomes biased in weight to leverage the left knee and inner peg carrying weight but not weighted any more.

- I'd want to set up the bike so that I can use the momentum from entry point to apex without further steering inputs after turn in and before the apex, as I suspect this will make my entry look "wave" like or "untidy" and probably force me to correct my line mid-corner.

:unsure: .... ?

Brgds/Ridiculefr35

#53 Bullet

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Posted 13 March 2011 - 10:14 PM

Hi Ridiculefr35
To answer this question, you will carry weight on the inside peg, but you base/stability comes from the outside peg. If you lean off too far on the inside (well I always find), you'll have achy knees). Now, as tto timing? When do you think it might be better to this in the turn, before the turn? What difference would it make with each approach?

Bullet


Hi Bullet and thank you for addressing my question. :D
To answer your following question, I'd say:
- before the turn both pegs evenly carrying weight.
- into the turn(right hander), inner peg is biased for weight(to help initiate the turn?) but outer peg is "ready"
- turning in, outside peg becomes biased in weight to leverage the left knee and inner peg carrying weight but not weighted any more.

- I'd want to set up the bike so that I can use the momentum from entry point to apex without further steering inputs after turn in and before the apex, as I suspect this will make my entry look "wave" like or "untidy" and probably force me to correct my line mid-corner.

:unsure: .... ?

Brgds/Ridiculefr35


So, by now, you've probably discovered the word stable/stability in our world of cornering? I wonder what difference you think those answer might make to stability of you and more importantly your affect on the bike?

Bullet

#54 slobdog

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 12:05 PM

I have come to the conclusion that weighting the inside peg is a bad thing. Mainly because it does this to your boots. I have bought stompgrips (and gone on a diet :lol: ) to help take some load off!

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#55 fossilfuel

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Posted 14 March 2011 - 06:56 PM

I have come to the conclusion that weighting the inside peg is a bad thing. Mainly because it does this to your boots. I have bought stompgrips (and gone on a diet :lol: ) to help take some load off!


Yes my friend, you have reached a level of riding that few attain. Some people ride for years and not get to this level. You have earned the coveted "Hole In Boot" Badge :D
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#56 slobdog

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 12:52 PM


I have come to the conclusion that weighting the inside peg is a bad thing. Mainly because it does this to your boots. I have bought stompgrips (and gone on a diet :lol: ) to help take some load off!


Yes my friend, you have reached a level of riding that few attain. Some people ride for years and not get to this level. You have earned the coveted "Hole In Boot" Badge :D


Cool :D

#57 Cobie Fair

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Posted 15 March 2011 - 06:46 PM

I do have to pay attention to where I put my feet. The inside foot somehow gets to point the toes straight down, and on my old boots the sliders wouldn't catch that. Hasn't been a problem with our new A-stars which are fantastically comfortable too, really happy with those.

CF

#58 Mike3000

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Posted 20 March 2011 - 09:07 PM

Now instead of hanging a full butt cheek off just move somewhere between one to three inches to the side when setting up for the corner... basically very little, see if this lets your outside knee (from the knee to halfway towards the groin) come in contact with the tank more as this is where you will be holding on best (the stronger Quad muscles). If all your contact is close to the groin (abductors) then you wont be able to maintain that pressure for long, best to use the quads which are far more powerful.
Picture that your outside knee can be rivetted into the tank...to get to that position most people need to move a little back in the seat, not so close to the tank, this is where it's important to refine this with a coach in person, as everyone is an individual ("no I'm not!"), now in that position further back from the tank, is it easier to get the upper body lower? can you easily get your knee way further out than before? Does this position give you more room for your arms and potentially for some... the beer gut? Do you feel more stable should you hit bumps? How about how much lighter you can relax on the bars? easier there? Can you last longer at trackdays doing this? with a more stable bike and less lean or more speed with your knee down earlier (big goal for some)? Most importantly or you, how is your footpeg weight? A bit better?

[/quote]

This sounds good but what is this guy doing?

http://www.motorcycl...er-practice.jpg

#59 warregl

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Posted 21 March 2011 - 12:15 PM

This sounds good but what is this guy doing?

http://www.motorcycl...er-practice.jpg


Being Casey Stoner. They don't call him an Alien for nothing :D.

Posted Image

All kidding aside, that picture is of a world champion. In his world, some of the rules (and coaching) that apply to mere mortals are bent, broken, or just plain ignored.

Jason addressed some of this in an earlier post:

It's a great and often asked question there Brad! We teach you the method of locking on that is easiest, that is using the outside quad muscles anchored to the tank.

You might see Rossi or Lorenzo use this great method, but there there are many others who use a different method that works for them, i.e. Pick a pro rider that might prefer to get his or her butt off the seat more, which leaves their upper body high and a little crossed up, as they've rotated around the tank they can't use the outside quads, so they're using their calf muscles, abductors, heel, butt, elbow etc ANYTHING they can to get the best lock on possible.

I.e. Our way isn't the only way, but once you try it at one of our Level 3 schools I'm pretty sure you'll think it's the best way.


Now if your question is more along the lines of why it works for him...maybe Jason or Cobie will chime in again...
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#60 movistar

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 10:20 AM

In his world, some of the rules (and coaching) that apply to mere mortals are bent, broken, or just plain ignored.


Like 'The Matrix'?




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