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Ventodue

Weighting A Footpeg - Inside Or Outside?

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Carey, you're gonna love Level 3 then, Cobie and his team will have you working with the bike, it makes an insane difference to nearly everything we do on a motorcycle.

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Carey, you're gonna love Level 3 then, Cobie and his team will have you working with the bike, it makes an insane difference to nearly everything we do on a motorcycle.

 

Thanks Jason, I'm sure I will. Since finishing Level 2 last year I've really felt the missing skills that I hope to learn in 3 & 4. The old adage is true - the more you learn, the more you realize you need to learn.

 

Cheers,

Carey

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How can you lean to the inside of the bike and not have weight on the inside peg?

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High Fossil Fuel,

 

Maybe this will help. On pages 84- 85 Chapter 13 in the "Twist of the Wrist II" under Steering, it explains on how to weight and the importance of pivot points. I know in my expierences of learning, (and always will be) that this was a helpful and important tool to have. Once you really do it, it is amazing feeling. :D

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How can you lean to the inside of the bike and not have weight on the inside peg?

 

You cant... other wise your indie foot would get bored

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I was going to post a similar issue regarding weighting / pressure on the pegs – but will just add to this one.

 

I've now been riding my SV650 track bike much more smoother and my laps times seconds better. I'm no where near setting lap records but I'm feeling better on the bike and getting close to being able to do some club level bracket racing.

 

Last track day I noticed that once I'm in the corner and at my desired lean angle and slider on the ground – on a few occasions I noticed that alot of weight (or maybe pressure?) was actually on the inside peg.

 

Is this normal or incorrect? On another lap I attempted to keep some weight on the outside and relax the inside leg / foot (knee sliding) but struggled to release the pressure and weight on the inside peg.

 

Having read the same books and listening to Keith in level 2 you weight the outside peg and use it as a pivot to counter steer as you have a great force to push the bar that way ? Once the counter steering is complete and you release pressure on the bar you are no longer weighting the outside peg ? Do I have it right ?? hope so because otherwise all the practice I have been doing to accomplish this is wasted and I have to learn all over again !!

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I don't release pressure with the outside leg until I use the knee to knee drill to pull me back on the bike or over to the other side. Outside leg also keeps you locked in and relaxed at the bars, while in a turn.

Aaron

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Jaz,

 

Did you ride the lean bike, and if so, what was the point of how to anchor yourself to the bike?

 

CF

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When I started riding track, I probably weighted both pegs equally. It was comfortable.

 

I spoke to a trackday "pro" one day (when I was newer) and he told me to weigh the inside peg. I still consider it a wasted day. I was fighting the bike the whole way and couldn't get comfortable. It got harder to steer the bike, and forget about picking it up coming out of a corner. I was fighting coming up and getting my weight back on the bike. It was wanting to dip back down while I was trying to pick it up. Transferring to the other side quickly was near impossible.

 

I started putting all my weight to the outside peg once I read about pivot steering and started feeling improved response. It's how I prefer doing it.

 

When I get into it, and particularly when I'm focused on good times, or trying a new technique, I probably go right back to weighting both sides, but it's not too bad, and definitely not as bad as weighting the inside peg.

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I know we are going to see you in March, we'll go into this stuff in good detail :D

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Jaz,

 

Did you ride the lean bike, and if so, what was the point of how to anchor yourself to the bike?

 

CF

 

Cobie , I did ride the lean bike, but at the time was not leaning off the bike much,( a little too round in the middle ). Since then I have been trying to lean more, Will be back for level 3 and 4 in March. Still got lots of work to do.

 

Jeff

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Jaz,

 

Did you ride the lean bike, and if so, what was the point of how to anchor yourself to the bike?

 

CF

 

Cobie , I did ride the lean bike, but at the time was not leaning off the bike much,( a little too round in the middle ). Since then I have been trying to lean more, Will be back for level 3 and 4 in March. Still got lots of work to do.

 

Jeff

 

OK, as a reminder, one point of the Lean Bike was to get you anchored to it, make sure you pin that outside leg into the tank. If you are hanging off more now (the new svelted you), wonder if you have loosened up that anchor point?

 

CF

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I understand pivot steering and locking on to the bike, but where this is really raising my interest is in watching the MotoGP and World Superbike races. I have a bunch of 2010 races still on my Tivo, and tonight I was watching the first Silverstone World Superbike race. Looking closely at these pro riders in mid-turn, they appear to have a very relaxed outside knee and foot, often not even in contact with the bike, except maybe for the boot sole touching the peg. How are they holding on to the bike :huh: ?

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It's a great and often asked question there Brad! We teach you the method of locking on that is easiest, that is using the outside quad muscles anchored to the tank.

 

You might see Rossi or Lorenzo use this great method, but there there are many others who use a different method that works for them, i.e. Pick a pro rider that might prefer to get his or her butt off the seat more, which leaves their upper body high and a little crossed up, as they've rotated around the tank they can't use the outside quads, so they're using their calf muscles, abductors, heel, butt, elbow etc ANYTHING they can to get the best lock on possible.

 

I.e. Our way isn't the only way, but once you try it at one of our Level 3 schools I'm pretty sure you'll think it's the best way.

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It's a great and often asked question there Brad! We teach you the method of locking on that is easiest, that is using the outside quad muscles anchored to the tank.

 

You might see Rossi or Lorenzo use this great method, but there there are many others who use a different method that works for them, i.e. Pick a pro rider that might prefer to get his or her butt off the seat more, which leaves their upper body high and a little crossed up, as they've rotated around the tank they can't use the outside quads, so they're using their calf muscles, abductors, heel, butt, elbow etc ANYTHING they can to get the best lock on possible.

 

I.e. Our way isn't the only way, but once you try it at one of our Level 3 schools I'm pretty sure you'll think it's the best way.

It is pretty wild to see one of the MotoGP guys almost lose it at full lean in a high speed corner, their outside leg practically pointed up in the air, and they just roll right through. It's quite amazing, and I can't imagine how they are able to hold on :o .

I've already been thoroughly indoctrinated in the CSS method of locking on :) . I've completed levels 1-2, got part way through level 3 (then crashed), and have done two U.S. Marine Corps programs - ARTD (a few tech briefs and a few sessions riding around a small "track") and AMOS (two days, bits of level 1-2, plus some USMC-specific requirements, also done on a small "track") - which are contracted to CSS. I've received the most coaching from Lonnie (but Cobie, Pete, JT, and James have worked with me too), and I got the locking on education from him (them) early on :) .

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Good stuff, you've been "armed" then, here's something to try if you want: Try rotating on the bike and using your calf to lock on for a few corners (lower speed and at a safe place like a track), takes an AWEFUL lot of effort.... no wonder the big guys are paid the big bucks to be athletes... they get those legs working for them (they have to, otherwise they couldnt be nice and loose on the bars) but at the cost of extreme physical training regimes.

 

So yep, it sure is possible, but it's just a question of how fit you are and where you focus your fitness.

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...Pick a pro rider that might prefer to get his or her butt off the seat more, which leaves their upper body high and a little crossed up, as they've rotated around the tank they can't use the outside quads, so they're using their calf muscles, abductors, heel, butt, elbow etc ANYTHING they can to get the best lock on possible...

 

It amazes me, they are living personification of being "in-tune" with their machines. I know that's why they are where they are but it's amazing non the less, probably more so since I know how bloody hard it is for my uncoordinated carcass. And you are dead on about their conditioning, they are serious athletes, anyone who doubts that just needs to spend a day at the track!

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Hi Ventodue,

 

Hi and welcome to the forum. Let me answer your questions. :)

 

In chapter 19 of TWT II, Keith is talking about pivot steering. He emphasises the importance of weighting the outside peg, writing, for example on page 85:

"Using the outside peg as your pivot point ... reduces your weight on the seat and puts the majority of your weight on that lower, outside peg".

 

 

Keith being very thorough says the lower peg, because some sport bikes have rear passenger pegs which would be considered upper. So that would eliminate any confusion on which peg to pivot from.

 

 

Sorry for butting in an old post, I have not been on the site for months!!!

 

My impression about the lower, outside peg, spoken about above was that it was the outside peg, yes, and that that peg is lower than the seat, as Mr Code specifically speaks about getting the weight off the seat, and onto that lower (lower than the seat)...

 

Is that a correct interpretation of the quote as well??? That is what I always thought he meant...

 

Just my $0.02

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How can you lean to the inside of the bike and not have weight on the inside peg?

 

I'm not sure you got a full answer on this.

 

When we are talking about hanging-off, there will be some weight on the inside peg; it's pretty much unavoidable. There is a difference between someone "weighting" the peg and having weight on the peg. Weighting the peg by putting forcing on it is unnecessary, and will not steer the bike effectively. Having a little bit of weight to help support some mass (like your leg) is okay. Most of the body weight should be held onto the bike via the lock-on (by pivoting off the outside peg and wedging the knee/thigh into the tank).

 

Make sense?

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I'm not sure you got a full answer on this. When we are talking about hanging-off, <snip>

 

Make sense?

 

Does to me, Pete - thanks :) .

 

I should say that I did eventually get round to taking Cobie's advice and try weighting the inside, just to see what happens. This was only on the road, not track, so I couldn't be too scientific about it. But I did find it pretty awkward. As expected, it contributed nothing to the steering; but it also felt quite wrong. I found myself gripping the bars too much 'cos fixing on to the tank was hard and ... eurgh! I don't know. It was just wrong ...

 

So, in conclusion, I don't really get Nick Ienatsch's advice. Sure, you have to support yourself a bit on the inside peg. But I don't think that amounts to "weighting " it. But I do know that I can feel myself, thru the sole of my boot, pushing really quite hard on the outside peg, certainly on anything that requires a bit of steering effort.

 

"Make sense?" :D

 

Craig

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Yep does to us.

 

The whole peg weigting, body positioning, steering, anchoring to the bike, and the relative effect on the bike and line, is an interesting subject, one that we see a lot of interesting in from the students (and the coaches too :rolleyes: ).

 

There are a number of distinct pieces to it! Glad we had Keith around to figure them out for us!

 

CF

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Hi folks, interesting discussion here and concerns some of my current uncertainties while steering the bike into a curve.

 

Currently, if I were approaching a right handed curve, I'd get the braking and gear changing sorted before entry point.

I've identified my entry point, I can pretty much tell where the apex should be and the exit point I either can or cannot see depending on the road ahead.

When I arrive toward entry point, I push right (counter steeing) to go right, simultaneously weighting the inner peg.

The bike tips into the turn......inside knee is outward and inner peg unweighted with weight now shifted to outer peg, to leverage the outside knee against the tank(left side of tank).

 

Should I be weighting the inner peg on entry then transferring weight to outer peg as leverage ou should I be weight the outside peg only, forgetting the whole weight the inside peg?

 

Rgds/Ridiculefr35

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I think what Nick was getting at was moving your weight to the inside of the turn so the bike can remain more upright. If you are sitting at your computer, try this:

 


  1.  
  2. Put your feet flat on the floor (they might need to be outside the legs of your chair--a hard chair might work better too)
  3. Leave your hands on the keyboard/bars, then lift your butt off your seat and "hang off" toward the right side of your chair
  4. Now try the left side
  5. Now try and get "crossed up," with your butt one way and your shoulders the other way

 

So, that was fun. Right? But what is your butt telling you?

 


  •  
  • Where is the tension in your legs?
  • If you are hanging off the right side, which quad gets tired first, right leg or left leg?
  • In order to move without putting weight on your arms, what do you have to do with your upper body?
  • If you keep your legs still, how much can you shift your weight, just by leaning forward and onto one butt cheek?
  • Is it more comfortable to tense your back, or your abs?

 

Granted, centrifugal force changes this dynamic a bit by holding you down in the seat. At the same time, you can still feel interesting things happening that you might not notice with everything else happening on your bike.

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How can you lean to the inside of the bike and not have weight on the inside peg?

 

I'm not sure you got a full answer on this.

 

When we are talking about hanging-off, there will be some weight on the inside peg; it's pretty much unavoidable. There is a difference between someone "weighting" the peg and having weight on the peg. Weighting the peg by putting forcing on it is unnecessary, and will not steer the bike effectively. Having a little bit of weight to help support some mass (like your leg) is okay. Most of the body weight should be held onto the bike via the lock-on (by pivoting off the outside peg and wedging the knee/thigh into the tank).

 

Make sense?

 

Thanks Pete. My question was rhetorical :) You are correct there is a difference in weighting the peg and putting weight on the peg. I have not found any benefit in "weighting pegs" unless it comes as a product of shifting position otherwise it is just a waste of energy. Most racers I know use their inside peg as a pivot for their foot pointing out towards the corner and also as an anchor to get off the bike and leaned in.

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Oops. I missed the rhetorical part. :blink: I would agree with you on using the peg to swing out your knee.

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