Cobie Fair
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Posts posted by Cobie Fair
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Bashir,
Quite right, another can of worms
.But up to the point of sliding, the arc will widen as more throttle is added.
Sliding is entertaining, no doubt.
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I liked the fist on the bar demo...as he said, no way could he pull back.
He's not 100% correct on the below 10k part...it's just harder to notice the countersteering.
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4,
Your signature quote was the exact same one my very first sponsor told me (before a 6 hour endurance race!).
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I'm guessing that you guys didn't know we trained her for short while...
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Seems like you do have this. One thing that sometimes comes up is with the throttle being rolled on, and 40-60 weight bias, there is some widening of the arc. Just to look at one more piece of this, if the rider gives the bike too much throttle, where will the line of the bike go?
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Bashir, that is correct, regarding the line. The term "maintenance throttle" can mean to some, just holding, not continuing the roll on (used more in cars I think). So, like you have done above, good to define it.
There are different levels of throttle needed, for different bikes, and cornering loads. If I recall data I heard from a factory 600 bike, at full lean it required 42% throttle to just get the bike to stop slowing down. That's a pro rider, factory bike, top-level tires (greatest cornering forces). On a liter bike it would be different levels of throttle, on a Ninja 300 it would be different. You are quite right, not so easy, it would take a heck of a simulator to duplicate the effects.
Through the heart of the turn, max lean angle, if one could get a little acceleration...
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I think it was the next article that lead me to believe she had basically retired...doesn't say that specifically:
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/elena-myers-accepts-sales-position-with-mcgraw-powersports/
It is not like in the distant past, the industry really has changed for aspiring young racers...not so easy.
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Even they (Rossi and Lorenzo) need to pay close attention.
I think I stated this in another thread, but they both crashed in the race Marquez won the title (Japan I think). Looks to me that they both added throttle and lean...not sure if one can find that footage or not.
And yes, above when you add throttle the line will widen.
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...and zero hanging off.
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I'd thought Elena had retired...might be in an old RW news piece...never tried to search that, wonder if one can.
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Engine is the primary factor for sure. Used to require 600 miles. I think the suspension can change a bit too.
There are some different approaches to break in, and for full-blown race engines, it might not be exactly the same thinkin. With our bikes, all the data is recorded and the factory is requiring that 350 miles, before they are ridden hard.
CF
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I'd be interested to know where different forum participants are from, how many different countries are up here.
A chance for the lurkers to participate, just need the name of the country.
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Looked like we had a small chance of rain, but that looks to have evaporated, fine by me.
Having a riding plan...even for a low-key event like this, something to consider. Maybe should start a thread on that subject...
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Problem with the training wheels (and depending on how they are adjusted) is it can turn the bike into a tricycle, which can steer like cars.
I've not trained lots of kids at that age, but I did go over countersteering with my young daughter on a bicycle.
I'd leave the training wheels off personally.
CF
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Excellent response Hotfoot.
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In most turns the gas roll on is not begun, until after the steering is completed. That would affect what you have above.
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Trevor and the boys (Ian and Connor I think) are going to be at the bike show in Cleveland.
If any of you re in the area, go by and pester them!
Tell 'em I sent you!
CF
PS: Trevor mentioned it used to be a B-52 factory, said it's big (the convention center).
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Bashir,
In 1 above: it might be needed to roll off...true double apex is in essence 2 turns. Some might just need to pause on the throttle.
In 2 above: have a look at your quote from T2--he's talking about fully and correctly control the throttle at the exit.
Make sense?
CF
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Spaghetti (BTW, love your avatar picture),
If that entry speed goes too high, what's the likely result as far as when the gas can come on? If the brakes carry in too long, too late...gas has to wait. Some turns this has to happen (long, late apex, decreasing radius comes to mind). But in modern racing if you go in too fast, run a little wide, brake too much, too long, a bunch of guys go by. Also, from the traction standpoint, waiting late on the throttle...is that ideal traction distribution, front loaded? (based on tire contact patch, which is bigger?).
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Hi JB,
Yeah, we really try and pay attention to this, as its the single biggest cause of crashes, in the turn.
Did you see the race last year, when Marquez won the title, I think it was Motegi, Japan? In that race, both Rossi and Lorenzo crashed. I think they both added throttle and lean, mid-turn. Maybe you can find that video?
Doesn't really matter when in a turn it's done (although at turn in, it makes the bike run too wide). Normally happens later in the turn, rider keeps increasing the lean, and adding more throttle.
One can certainly lose the front this way, or even both ends. The point is the 2 actions together make it unpredictable and sudden, it overwhelms the tire. Even traction control won't save it all the time. That other thread you and I were on, that had the video link and you saw Stoner sliding the bike (front end turned out). That is the opposite of throttle and lean angle increasing. He was increasing the throttle, but bringing the bike up.
As for what it feels like is one is just down, often wondering WTF? Can be the front or rear or both, maybe even just the rear too.
CF
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Yeah, he really tamed that survival reaction. There are some pictures with his left hand literally open, just resting on the bar.
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Thanks, always great to have the reference.
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In most instances, adding a little more lean angle, can be gotten away with. I say "most." If a rider is already at the limit of lean for that bike/tire, then obviously that won't work--or if the conditions necessary for traction are not there: like is the tire warmed up enough, surface grippy, etc.
If they are, then pausing on the throttle can work.
Would this be similar to how to handle a genuine double apex turn?
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They typically are a load of fun, it's like (for the most part) a calmed down day, and have to really pay attention to things you night not ordinarily. Also, there have been some need "freight trains" of riders and if one guys messes up, the other guys will inch past him.
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How To Countersteer
in Cornering and Techniques
Posted
Here's a point that comes up in conversation now and again (the above one on does countersteering work at slow speeds).
How could a person tell if countersteering was happening, at say less than walking speed, 1-2 mph? Rider is on a bicycle, and it starts tipping over to the right. Which was does the rider turn the bars?