fossilfuel

I'm sure it's in T2 (don't have mine with me at work to find Chapter/ Verse), but I thought I read that it causes the RPM to go down a bit. When the bike goes from upright to turned in--RPM doesn't go down. Anyone find it yet? CF The rpm should go up because one should be on the throttle.

Keith, Thanks for the post. You are so right. I do not mind being at the rev limiter in some situations. The one thing that drives me in this endeavor is to be smooth but with maximum power. I am trying to be efficient with the use of gearing and power to maximize speed in places that can make a difference, where throttle control comes in to play. My goal this year is to cut two seconds off my current fastest lap time. On the track and in many other sports youth masks mistakes. I am at the age where the margin of error is much smaller. I have to be better prepared. An example of my perspective on this subject might be the drive out of a corner. The gearing calculator I found would prove this to be true. Say the bikes were the same, a CBR1000RR, there is a 60 mph turn and one has stock sprockets 16/42 this is 6000 rpm in second gear. if ones sprockets have been changed to 15/46 the rpm is 7000 in second gear. If the rear sprocket is increased to 48 the rpm at 60 mph is 8000 rpm. From apex to corner exit the 8000 rpm setting should be the fastest? I'm in the power baby! I don't care that the bike will not go 180 mph if the fastest straight is 140 mph. But one corner does not make a track. This is just an example. I would think that evaluating the track, corner speed, and picking the right gearing would be a big advantage. I am no expert and for the accomplished racer this may be a mute point but for me this means making up time in a safe controlled manner. This thread has really helped. Thanks to all of you for posting.

I found a web sight that has a gearing calculator for CBR1000RR 04-07. One puts in the sproket sizes and wheel diameter and it spits out a chart with speed and rpm range for each gear. This was what I was looking for.

I friend let me take his CBR600RR to the track. I road my CBR1000RR and his. After the day was over I wanted a 600. If the economy wasn't in such a free fall I would already have one. The energy it took to ride his 600 was so much less than trying to pull my 1000 through the corners. I would not be nearly as tired after a two day event on a 600. The other thing is I love to work a motorcycle so the upshifting and down shifting on the track is a treat for me.

YoYoDyne "All CNC machined in aluminum, the new push-pull throttle kit is a required accessory for racers that want only the best for their motorcycle. Thanks to the ability to change the cams inside that modify the speed of the push-pull throttle, everybody can find the right combination of speed and control. The new design with bigger rotors can be installed on each bike with any problems with the 2 cables that are include in the kit that fit. The push-pull throttle kit can be installed with Run/Stop-Start switch for bikes that originally come with this control integrated in the throttle housing." http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=E80061

Hey Cobie, I am using the clutchless upshift so this is not a problem. You taught me this as well as blipping the throttle. Thanks. I am going to research the gearing more and in the mean time go faster!!!

Thanks Guys! Great information. I appreciate all the feedback. This just gives me more of an excuse to sign up for more track days so I can experiment with set up.

I have a tendancy to use sarcasm sometime so please forget about the Nicky Hayden analogy! I do not or will I ever shift mid corner.......I have been to many Keith Code schools and wouldn't want my coaches to think I wasn't paying attention so if you are a coach and reading this, don't panic. I'm not suggesting anything stupid. I am actually talking about the shift before the turn. What I have noticed is that I have been running out of gear close to the end of the straight ( two of these at Barber between 4 and 5 and 6 and 7) with no time for the needed next shift so instead of trying to gear from a 3.0 to something higher and make another shift nearer the middle of the straight I should go down to a 2.9 to stretch out the gear for the end of the straight? I'm going next weekend and was thinking about changing my current set up. Somethings are easy to understand and somethings raise more questions for me like primary and final drive gearing. I feel like Forrest Gump.

Kevin, I understand calculating ratios but I guess I am confused about what information is out there from different sources. If I was smart enough to understand this problem I would'nt be stairing at a B.A. in Liberal Arts diploma right now. What is perplexing is this. Say Nicki Hayden runs around the track never getting out of fourth gear running stock sprockets, lets say 16/42 = 2.625 but the transmission gear ratios for fourth gear on his bike is 1.381:1. I on the other hand am running the same track with a 15/46 = 3.06 arrangement topping out in 6th gear transmission ratio of 1.160:1. Wouldn't I have a lower gear ratio but at maximum rpm and be shifting in a tighter pattern between 4th, 5th, and 6th vs his shifting between 2nd, 3rd and 4th? What this all boils down to in my mind is keeping the engine in the power band, a smooth transition from shift to turn, maintaining stability in the close tall gear ratios and not missing shifts. Wouldn't it be better to be shifting in to 4th in a curve than 2nd? Just curious....And no I haven't read Keiths article yet but I will.

Gentlemen, I have a question that pertains to gearing and flow around a track. I have gone to different race schools and read many articles on gearing. One thing that I have not heard about is flow yet many guys that go fast talk about flow around a track. I was asking the question about gearing yesterday. I called two guys that I consider to be at the upper tier of riding. I'm sure both could line up on an AMA starting grid. I asked both of them about there gearing for my home track (Barber). Both stated that they run the track hardly ever getting out of fourth gear. Most articles I have read and at least one school I have attended talk about being in the top three gears when on the track. Being as close to red line in the gears that give one the closest ratios. At some point on the longest straight on the track one should be close to red line in sixth gear. The taller gears make it easier to shift and easier to predict exit speed by where one is shifting at exit of turns. One of the guys asked me what sprockets I was running and I told him 15 tooth front 45 rear. He said that Barber has a flow and rhythm that I wouldn't get into by using a 15 tooth sprocket on the front. I am having trying to understand what the difference is in the logic of one method vs the apparent speed of the guys I talked to on the track and their gearing.

Amen to that Brother! Kevin Last year two friends and I went. We flew into LAX then drove up the Pacific Coast Highway to Malibu. We stopped at Marina Del Rey, Santa Monica, and ate at a really nice Italian restauraunt in Malibu. The Restaurant was next to a canyon road that ran right in to interstate 5. We headed South to interstate 405 then to highway 14 to Lancaster. That was when they had the huge wreck under the 405 and stopped traffic for a long time. We went through there just before it happened. We stayed in Lancaster but we saw a little motel in Rosemond next to a Mexican restaurant that looked pretty good. We made a big mistake waiting to get a hotel room in down town L.A. the night before we left...what a pain in the Butt.

Bones's explanation is a good technic for setting up the entry and exit. A racer friend of mine told me long ago, the most important turn of a series of turns to set up for is the one leading in to a long straight. So if one has a chicane made up of two 90 degree turns, what good does it do to go in to the first hot and miss the entry in to the second? The entry in to the second is critical for getting on the throttle quickly...Right? what about it Bones?

Are you riding at Donnington Park? The only time I have experienced this problem is on my MotoGP 08 playstation three at Donnington park......Seriously a good question...I would approach this as I do any 90 degree turn...there is just so much throttle between the exit and entry of the two turns, right? I think the Streets Of Willow has this at turn 13 and 14 but you don;t have time to think about throttle there...It is right knee down...left knee down and it may not be full 90 degree but a lot of fun..

Quick Throttle! Wonderful gizmo. I need to put a different cam in mine to make it even quicker. I think I will look in to that this afternoon....Thanks for reminding me.

I think the key to improving doesn't mean you have to ride multiple tracks to go faster but to implement the training and experience to a track or to changing conditions. If I ride at VIR for example and I want to go three seconds faster around the track, do my references points change? Do I apply brakes at a different marker? Do I shift at different points? Does it really matter that I am on the same track layout? I reported in a thread not long ago about riding two different bikes at Barber, a 600rr and 1000rr. My times were almost identical. Why? the same reference points, the same braking markers, the same entry speed, the same exit speed. I have to change these to go faster. Its not the track that needs to be different, it's me.

Fossil is a pretty decent rider too, have seen him ride. 53, you are kid! Ask an 80 year old Cobie, I appreciate the comment. My buddies at the track are always asking me to go get coffee at Mcdonalds because I get a senoir citizen discount? Last year at Jennings I went to get a drink out of the cooler and they had put "Ensure" on top. No respect for the old man.....I will be seeing you at Leguna Seca in April.....any senior citizen discount?

Thanks Man...I have a new goal for '09, go faster.

I am 53 and find that if I am going to ride with you young guys, I have to work out 4 to 5 times a week. For me the most important thing is to work the lower body and abs. One hour of spin class burns more calories than any other exercise in a sports gym plus it increases leg strength. I do spin class twice a week. Then I do abductors, squats, and calve raises. I work my upper body with pulleys because you have to use more core muscles to stabilize your position. My wanting to ride to the best of my ability fuels my need for exercise and keeps me feeling young.

Which Club? Kevin Kevin, I belong to NESBA....Southeast Region

Sometime you don't have a choice? But for me I like to take the opportunity to see where one is braking, turning in, lines and where I am slower. I think to get faster, following sometimes helps build confidence. I have been in my track organizatiions advanced class for two track days now and the opportunity to be in front is short lived. It is just incredible how fast some of these guys are.

'08 CBR600RR

No dought King Kenny was fun to watch! But my favorite is Dick Mann. He would road race, flat track AND ride motocross.....all on a Triumph!! I watched him race the Sacrameno Mile with a broken foot! Then I watch him race against Roger DeCoster at Carnagie MotoCross, on a Triumph single. He got smoked, but the sound of that thumper going around a motocross track was way cool!!. Never did see Dick Mann racing. Troy Bayliss

I cant believe that you could lap a borrowed 600 at nearly the same times as your 1000, Imagine how much faster you could go if it was your own bike! You know, I never had any doubt in my mind that I could ride my friends bike without trashing it because of the lessons I have learned at CSS. One applies the same technics and lessons learned on all bikes. I will tell you though, I would love to go out right now and buy a 600 because I have ridden the 600 and 1000 at two different tracks and had the same results. Unfortunatley, we here in the U.S. are in somewhat of a financial crisis so I will be riding the old girl (1000RR) for another year. P.S. The only thing that bothered me about the 600 was the tight area of power and the fact that I felt a loss of power near red line. My friend has a power commander on it so I am sure it just needs tuning.

LOL Your mother wears Army boots. For what it is worth, Troy Bayliss was the only 1000cc superbike rider to lap faster than the supersport 600's at the World Superbike round in Portugal this year. My 1000 is getting a little long in the tooth and a close friend trusted me with his 600 to try. I really liked it. It took less effort and was a lot of fun running around the track. I probably could have gone faster but didn't want to have to pay for damage. I just noticed that the times were the same and thought...I know I need to go faster, no question about that but I was wondering about throttle control and corner speed. It seems logical to believe that since the 1000 has more power, I might be losing time on the drive out or on corner entry speed. I would think that the 600 has no advantage on the straight away with a 1000 so the corners were where I was making the time up on the 1000. Hey Racer...I figured that you would be the one to mention my mother! Took you long enough to respond D.

Hi Guy's, It has been a while since I have posted. It seems that I have missed several philosophical discussions and thankfully no one has said anything about ones mother? I have been enjoying my MotoGP 08 game since finishing my last track day a few weeks back at Barber. The question I have is about my riding. I took two motorcycles to Barber, 1000cc and 600cc and had almost identical lap times on both motorcycles. If I am 6 to 8 seconds slower (1:42.00 - 1:43.00) than the fastest riders in the advanced class of which I am in, what can this say about where I can improve. Does it reveal anything? P.S. I hope that all of you have a great and safe Holiday.