GregGorman

Your question makes sense to me. It seems like you've got the right ideas with this. Let me reword your question a bit and see if that helps... A rider enters a turn using hard braking, flicks the bike over at a precise turnpoint, has the entry speed he wanted, gets on throttle as early as possible and disappears down the next straight. In other words, no discernible errors. Did he charge the turn? Another rider enters the same turn at the same speed using hard braking, gets a little scared of his speed, loses the reference of his turnpoint, turns in too early, has to ride the brakes while leaned over to get slowed down enough to get the bike pointed, ends up going too slow mid-corner, and gasses it hard to make up for it on the exit resulting in slides. In other words there's errors there. Did he charge the turn? That help?

Well... just riders having fun. As you post more it will change.

Welcome to the board! 250 to 675... Wow! That will wake you up in the morning!

My answer is yes a perfect bike can become a bad bike and it can work the other way too. At a track I ride I get front end chatter. The front wheel is skipping along the pavement on corner entry and mid-corner. One track and one speed range. If I go 2 seconds a lap faster it goes away. That is, doing a 1:24-26 lap I get bad chatter. A 1:22 and under lap is just fine.

Above post 1 there's an "Options" button. Click on it and the "Switch to Standard."

Honestly for a while I didn't worry about it as long as I fit into leathers - that was questionable on a few occasions I'm sorry to say. I didn't feel riding relaxed at a 75% pace required more - even for 15 sessions a day. Last year racing, I just rode more to build my leg strength. Now that I want to do better than I did last year, I'm dieting (high protein, low carb), running, and cycling. I prefer running because it burns calories per unit of time and when done with a minimalist shoe http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/, builds strength in the arch, calf as well as the quads. That makes it real easy to get stable on the bike and not use energy elsewhere.

Are those curbs triangles? I paused the video at 1:12 and they look like dangerous, cut you up, spit you out, saw teeth! Oh, some are, some aren't. Do you have a bit of attention on not getting too close to them? Plus points: Quick turn is pretty good and you turn the bike once for a turn. Like the others have said, gotta hit the apexes. I'm working on that too. It's easy at 75-85% but at 100% race mode... well, that's why we look, learn and practice. I remember you saying you did level one at Losail, right?

Here's some pics of the event posted on another forum - you may have to join... hope not. A crew shot showing off everyone in the new BLACK???? leathers. Keith, Dylan, Cobie, Pete, Lonnie, Stuman, James (I think) and 2 others I can't recognize. http://www.soflasportbikes.com/forum/gener...-pbir-pics.html

Very cool Stu. How'd you like the track?

My favorite, most memorable student was 74 years old and had a total of 4, yes FOUR, months riding experience on his BMW K75. Believe me when I say he was the slowest rider I've ever worked with. Over the course of three days he essentially doubled his speed, dropping a minute+ off his lap times. But what was more memorable than that were the HUGE smiles that could easily be seen through his full face helmet as he recognized his own gains. That's what was so memorable about him, his joy at winning! Yeah, coaches like riding fast. But everyone of them likes it even more when you succeed. If you're starting fresh, slow, with a lot of problems, we just have more opportunity to help you. It's a win, win situation.

Very nice job keeping your head about, finding the hole and managing to get through with that deep gravel then big rocks. That was not an easy task just keeping the bike upright.

Great questions, Stu. On my FZ-1 it went like this, I was slightly leaned to the left and the front turned to the left. I wasn't really locked into the bike with my knees and when the bars turned, I almost fell off the bike. I got off the brakes just in time for the bike to stabilize. It was a reactive action as opposed to a thought action. Since then I've locked up/slide the front a few more times, mostly at Daytona - must be the hard tires. Sliding when braking, it's really hard braking and I'm feeling everything then the it just gets vague and I'm decelerating a bit less - the weight on the front lightens up just a bit. In turns, the front slides before I get on the gas. The front turns sharply into the turn and the bike just falls away. Allowing the front to turn like that and getting on the gas saves it. Sometimes I feel the slides before they happen, most times I don't. It's just traction, traction, traction, WHOA! what was that? I think being loose enough on the bars and allowing the front to turn in is the only thing giving me enough time to get on the gas. It's happening enough, especially when I push on older tires, that I'm starting to get a feel of the braking forces and lean angles. Ah, feel is the wrong word. I have an idea of what lean angles and speed will cause the slide and can predict it.

I'm sure it will be worth it!

Nice, they don't give you much help, do they. I look at their rulebook and found this: 1.4 A WMRC Racing License will not be issued to a new competitor unless he has passed a WMRC accredited race school in the past 24 months. See www.wmrc.ca for current accredited schools. So I go look at the site for accredited schools - NONE are listed. Even their link for "Learn to Race" doesn't list approved schools - it does imply by association that WRSS is approved but it doesn't say so anywhere. It also gives bad information in saying that race schools give out licenses, the don't. Only the sanctioning organization gives out licenses; in this case WMRC. Also, their membership application - this is HOW you get a license - states: If you did NOT hold a WMRC license last year include proof of previous track experience such as a previous license, race school certificate, etc. So here's how this works. You go to a school, CSS, WRSS, any school, complete it and you get a certificate. You fill out a Membership Application and give that to WMRC with a copy of your school certificate. WMRC determines if the school is good enough to grant you a license. Generally forums are a bad place to get answers to race organization rules. There's a lot of answers that don't matter. Only one answer counts and it has to be the official that's in charge of enforcing the rule for it to mean anything. The BEST way to get that answer is to call the race organization directly. Really, call WMRC.

Only the race organization issues race licenses. The best thing you can do to get a real answer to your question is to call the race organization and ask them. I wouldn't expect a problem regardless of what their website says or doesn't say. Most likely they'll want you to demonstrate your knowledge of their flag usage as that is different from the Superbike School.

Congratulations to both of you!

Don't know where you live but in the US, the two main race series are WERA and CCS. For WERA, the requirements are: B. Successfully completing a WERA approved rider’s school. WERA recognizes the following motorcycle ROADRACING schools as the requirement for obtaining a Provisional Novice License: WERA New Riders’ School, Jason Pridmores STAR School, Fast Track Riders school, Ed Bargy’s Rider School, Kevin Schwantz Suzuki School, Corner Speed, Team Chicago School, F.A.S.T. (Canadian), CLASS, Team Hammer Advanced Riders’ School, Track Riders, MARRC, Freddie Spencer, Viking Race School, California Superbike (must take the classroom part of WERA’s school), RPM Track School, Ty Howards Racing School 35, Sportbike Track Time Pro School., Champion Sportbike Club, Wizard Racing School, & Penguin School. For CCS: 2.2 CCS LICENSE REQUIREMENT - New applicants must provide proof of current racing experience, or a certifcate indicating completion of an approved Riders School or Licensing Clinic within the previous 12-month period. A list of approved schools for CCS is here: http://ccsracing.us/schools.html. Oddly the California Superbike School is not on the list for CCS.

This seems to be the culprit to me. Does turning in earlier make your exit tighter or wider?

OK, you're a racer now and you're approaching the dogleg at Daytona at 105mph. You stay full throttle and flick the bike into the turn and it takes a bit of effort. Now you approach the west horseshoe at 115mph and get on the brakes and flick the bike in. You notice less effort is required than the previous turn but the west horseshoe is a 45mph turn. Your conclusion - bikes like to turn with the brakes on. Here's some more examples of no brakes turns. Turn 9 at Road Atlanta - 160mph. Start Finish turn at VIR - 140mph. Turn 1 at Laguna - 140mph. See the pattern here? Now do a similar speed comparison like the last 3 turns at Assen. Hard braking right turn, no brakes left, no brakes right, front straight. Where do the riders actually turn the bike faster? Do they turn fast when braking for the first turn, or are the last two flicks faster?

Thanks for the link. Looks really nice - but also rather expensive. I also like the idea of a totally self-contained unit. JTNYC, I think we're pretty aligned here Video specs: I've taken a look at the specs for the GoPro HD and the ContourHD 1080p, and it definitely looks like they are using the same sensor and encoding hardware: they have the same sensor size (5Mpix), can record in the same modes (1080p, 960p "Tall-HD" 4:3 format, 720p, 720p@60fps, etc), use the same codec (H.264 aka .mov/.mp4), and the videos consume the same amount of GB/hour. Audio: GoPro claims to have worked a lot on the audio side - a good thing, because you easily end up with a video that just has wind-noise as sound. VholdR says they have improved the audio side on the 1080p over the old 720p. The sound on the car videos at GoPro's homepage sounds very good. The sound on this YouTube video is OK, but it isn't track pace so it's a little hard to judge. Storage: VholdR uses microSDHC cards (max 16GB), whereas GoPro uses SDHC cards (max 32GB). VholdR is narrower and deeper, whereas GoPro is wider (has a bigger frontal area) but not as deep. Personally, I like the design of the VholdR better. GoPro can take still pictures (5Mpix). I'm not sure the VholdR software can do that. Mounting/alignment: A trackday friend of mine has the "old" 720p ContourHD cam, and he says that adjusting the ContourHD can be annoying, because it A) doesn't have a built-in screen and doesn't have a "webcam" feature so you can see where it's pointing. That means you need to take a small clip, stop the cam, plug in USB cable, review it on a laptop, unplug USB, adjust cam direction, repeat ad nauseum. Don't know about the GoPro. Stevo, can you get your trackday buddy to chime in on this? If others have info to share, please do. I'm not rushing out of the door to buy a cam next week. Thanks, Kai I have the ContourHD and have used the GoPro. I like that the waterproof container of the GoPro but I don't like how much it sticks out when mounted. Having said that, it seems easier to just mount and go with the GoPro than it is with the ContourHD. The ContourHD seems to require a bit more thought in mounting. Knowing when the batteries are dead appears to be a problem as the owner of th GoPro has checked it several times before I go out yet it only recorded 10-15 seconds because the batteries were dead. The ContourHD (first gen 720p version) is small in non-obtrusive wherever you mount it but it has a finicky battery connection which can make it lose power midway through a run. Until I reinforced the battery retention method this was a big problem but now it's not a problem at all - it just works. As for aligning it, it's the easiest camera I've ever worked with for alignment (since 2003.) The lasers are great, just line them up to a straight edge and go. The trick is the straight edge can be 2 inches away or 30 feet a way - in other words, dont' over complicate it. Their methods of creating video files are decidedly different. Video editing programs react differently to files from each and they're both equally hard to work with with Sony's Vegas editing software but in different ways. The supplied editing program with the ContourHD is lousy in that it crashes many times and is very slow. I have no experience with any supplied software from GoPro. Personally, I like the ContourHD better. Either one will be fine and the end quality will depend more on your knowledge of post production editing and compression techniques. My videos can be found at http://youtube.com/gkgorman

Agreed that this is a good question and I'm sure I'm not the only one who is unsure of low-speed countersteering. I recall reading something Keith wrote about stability speed, etc but I don't have my books (in storage-arghhhhghh). What am I missing here? Toss me a bone man. Well, I don't have a bone to toss you. I think it's down to your own observation now. You can try it with 1/10th scale model motorcycles and feel how the motorcycle moves in your fingers, you can try it on your bicycle, you can try it on your motorcycle. Does anything happen prior to the front wheel turning in the direction of the turn? You could also get the Twist II DVD, it shows counter-steering in detail there.

OK, the question is; Does counter-steering work at any speed? That video and many others like it show that it does. All we're talking about is looking for the counter steer motion, the turn of the front tire in the opposite direction just prior to the bike leaning. That weave is a counter-steer and there's a semi-valid reason for why it's so big that has to do with cop bike training and testing, not important here really. Here's a simple test of counter-steering at slow speed. Push your bike in a straight line, keep it vertical, and turn the bars to the left, which way does it go? I suggest having a friend on the right side to catch it if goes too far out of balance.

check this out. notice the counter steer prior to the bike falling to the left. disclaimer: I did not listen to the audio so I have no idea what he's saying. This is for observation only.

Greg- I see your point, but what happens when we do a slow-speed U-turn a-la MSF parking lot? We weigh the outside of the bike (but I don't recall them teaching to weigh either peg). The counter-steer is very fast and you're seeing how a motorcycle maintains balance when going around a corner, the front wheel turns in. Steering a motorcycle is a two step process - get the bike leaned(counter-steer) and then let the front tire track and balance the bike (stop counter-steering.) The MSF U-Turn is Trials Riding technique to use the body to counter the weight of the bike so you can balance the bike when it's leaned over further than it can balance itself at that speed. Because the bike is so unstable at those speeds, the counter-steer motion to get the bike LEANED is very quick and light - the bike just falls over. If flying is the art of throwing yourself at the ground and missing, steering an inline two-wheeled vehicle is the art of crashing and failing.

Really? How about a 4 year old child riding a bicycle on training wheels, training wheels raised, do they experience counter steer? What about this, when balancing a bicycle or motorcycle, while completely stopped, if the bike starts falling to the left which way do you turn the bars? To the left or the right?