YellowDuck

Thanks everyone for the input. This is developing quickly. I actually realized that I have enough air miles to fly the entire Prairie Dog Racing team to any of the locations, so there is a good chance that all three of us will be coming. How cool is that? Barber looks awesome, both the track and the museum, but unfortunately those dates conflict with one of our race weekends. VIR in August is a possibility. Watched some video of the track and the surface looks wonderful...maybe a bit guard-raily in places... I really don't think a 2-day camp can happen this year. I am sure it would be ideal but it is just too expensive in Canuckistan currency.

Hey, thanks for that reply. I got kind of excited about the Vegas option after reading your post, but checking the schedule I see that there are only 2-day camps there this year. I can't shell out that kind of cash - money's a little tight this year, plus I am paying in 75-cent Canadian dollars which really doesn't help. Willow might be the right option. Actually I have enough air miles to get myself there plus my two racing team mates...this could be fun.

This is a bit of a tangent from this thread (sorry) but I just wanted to add that, when I first started track riding, my biggest limitation was an inability to trust in the amount of traction available. There is a long thread about this called "Learning to Trust the Tires" or something like that. I eventually got over it by adopting more of a quick turn steering approach where I screwed up my courage and just chucked it over hard, as opposing to sort of easing into a turn. I am way past that now on dry, warm pavement - my corner speeds aren't really limited by my faith in the tires, and in a race situation even when I am turning relatively slowly while trail braking I can still eventually get it over to my normal full lean angle. And yet, in low traction situations I am still a chicken. Meaning I can still be super cautious to the point where I am not using all of the traction available, or even close to it. Best example last season was the final inter-series round where we had had rain and there were damp patches all over the place and, right at a corner exit, a little tiny "river" running right across the track. I was on slicks (it was too dry for rains) and could never bring myself to ride through that water at anything more than a snail's pace, even though I saw my competitors doing it much more quickly. Just couldn't get my head around it. I got lapped that race.... Which is all just a long-winded way of saying, psychology weighs into all of this very heavily, at least for me.

If it is a clean hot track and I am going out on hot tires I don't even think about it. When traction is suspect (e.g., very cold track in the morning) all I do is work up gradually to my normal cornering speeds and braking effort. It's usually the front wheel that gives it away, with a little slide on braking or a loose feel while cornering. When it is REALLY cold (like, first track day of the year around here, maybe early May, when the track in the morning is cold to the touch even in full sunlight) it is more about being wary of the *loss* of traction as the tires cool over the course of the session. Coming right off the warmers I might get only 3 or 4 laps before spooky stuff starts to happen to the front, or maybe the rear spins up a bit on corner exit. It's pretty easy to sense - not mysterious at all.

COTA is awesome. Can't wait for this weekend... Honestly, I don't find his body position particularly extreme. Probably a full cheek off the seat, which is kind of a lot but not unusual. Outside elbow still has lots of bend, sternum maybe 6" inside of the steering head.... It's always hard to get a good perspective on body position from a rear mount camera, but from what I'm seeing this is pretty standard.

So I am thinking that I might do a CSS Level 1 day this year (assuming there are still any openings - if not it could be next year). My question: I have enough air miles to get to any of the US school locations. All things considered, which would be the ideal track? I am leaning towards Willow but that is based on nothing at all.

I could be missing something, but this doesn't make sense to me. Adding throttle causes the bike to widen its arc but I don't think tire slip comes into this, unless you are drifting both tires (!). I think it is just the increase in speed increasing the centripetal force (lateral acceleration) that moves the bike to the outside, or else requires more lean angle or more weight to the inside to maintain the same turn radius.

This ^^^^ Been there, done that. And as the rider I was SURE I wasn't doing the thing that I was, in fact, doing (applying rear brake under heavy braking at the end of the straight, causing violent rear wheel hop...misdiagnosed by the numb skull rider as a front suspension issue).

So....what's everyone got planned for 2016? I'm in a bit of a rut. Got separated this fall, had to buy a new house, immediately spent cubic dollars renovating the main floor...so now there is not a lot of cash lying around. Actually, I think technically I have negative money. So maybe I'll just blow the drywall dust off the Ducati and try to defend my BOTT LW title. Still need new leathers and tire warmers though ($$). My plan before my life got all overturned was to build the motor on that bike and race it against the 600s in 2016, but that's not happening now ($$$$). Maybe next year. Prairie Dogs Endurance will be back, but it's not clear on what bike. We are currently outgunned in our class because we have to compete against all Lost Era (> 12 year old) bikes, even litre bikes. There is a 929 that eats our lunch every race. So, we now have a 929 of our own, being disassembled for inspection deep in the bowels of PDR's secret headquarters...but it's kind of a piece of ...not clear yet if we will get it race ready for 2016. Plus, I am now the department head at work. Man are they going to get a surprise when they tell me there is some super-mission-critical Saturday meeting that happens to coincide with a race weekend...

I'm with Kevin - I was going to post the same thing. An old RC51 with the right pipes sounds positively bad ass. I'm also kind of partial to the 675. Other triples might sound just as raunchy, I don't know - the Triumph is the only one I've heard.

Super tight layout - not really about hp is it? Cool bike and nice riding, but helmet cam videos make me kinda seasick...

Wait, let's not jump to conclusions....let's talk this through....

Yes...14 seconds...wow. The biggest lap time improvement you will ever make in a single day, guaranteed. You should mail the guy a check for, like, $2000. You would have spent 5 times that finding 14 s with go-fast parts, "normal" training and track days. Just watched a video of that track. That place is just purpose-designed for puck scraping, isn't it? Long long corner after long long corner.

That is super cool. I'd like to think that I don't look at the bike right in front of me quite that much, but in reality I know I do (probably quite a bit more!).

rchase, I wish there were more riders like you at our race practice weekends. I am forever showing guys on 600s my front wheel, only to have them peg it on the straight. The communication there is Me: "Hi. You are slowing me up in the infield. I am seconds faster than you per lap, or else how did I get here behind you? If you let me by, within half a lap I won't be affecting you at all". Them: "Me fast. Watch me go!".

I'm sure you will get better advice from the others...but I just wanted to say, I think you are on to something when you say you have a lot more line options in longer corners. I guess I can understand how that could be disorienting...but honestly, in terms of lap times it probably doesn't matter much that you get the exact same line every time through those corners. Sure, you want to avoid running off the inside and such, but it's probably only your positioning as you approach the exit that really matters. Usually the entry to a long sweeper has multiple effective line options, and once you are turned in and at maximum lean for all of those long seconds, you can kind of drive around on different lines as you like until you approach the exit. Then you need to be in the right place to get on the throttle as soon and hard as possible as you stand the bike up. Think about it. Your entry line on a short, quick corner pretty much determines where your exit is going to end up. On a long corner that's not true because once you are in the corner just circling around it you have all kinds of time to put the bike wherever you want on the track.

Hotfoot is no gentleman...

Wait....what? I got one right? What do I win, what do I win?!?!

Your body position isn't bad at all. Personally I'd say maybe a little more bum off the seat but yes, upper body lower and more to the inside. That will help to get your outside arm straighter and closer to the tank but probably just as important in that regard is rotating your hips more in towards the corner - your upper body will follow. In the final picture it almost looks like your body is rotated a bit *away* from the corner. Open it up towards the corner more (your whole body, hips included). That will also get your leg into a position where you can stick your knee out a bit more perpendicular to the bike and eventually get your puck down.

Great thread. csmith12, awesome photos. I especially like your upper body / head position. Nice. Another reaction I had to those photos though is that the handle bars seem to be a bit high, so that your hands are more elevated than they need be. Do you agree with that? Is there any opportunity to lower the clip ons or would that lead to clearance issues?

Your leathers are so new and shiny. Not like mine

Welcome to the addiction. Say goodbye to whatever extra disposable income you thought you had. Sounds like a great first outing and honestly, the way you recount how helpful other people were - that's pretty much standard in my experience. Something about the track environment just makes people friendly and generous. I really enjoyed your write up! Regarding the overcooked corner...why let it win for the rest of the day? How about working on establishing a braking marker and a turn-in point, then adjusting those if you discover they are too conservative? You probably had plenty on your plate already since it was your first day, but when you have the mental space available being methodical like that is really useful for enhancing consistency and optimizing your entry speeds. Q3s - awesome tires. I am winning club level races at this point in my track riding progression, and I still don't think there is much I do on the racing slicks + warmers that I couldn't pull off just fine on the Q3s with a couple of laps of heat in them. Maybe there is a small difference with the amount of throttle I can use exiting corners, but mid corner speed is the same I think. Great tire choice, great bike choice - it really just sounds like you are doing everything right. Thanks for sharing your experience.

I'd agree that it looks pretty good. I'd say the last two photos look better than the first two. Not sure what the difference is. Maybe in the last two you have you hips rotated more outwards, towards the corner? It also looks like you are crowding the tank a bit, which is affecting your arm bend. Could you scooch back in the seat a little? Just my two cents - definitely not an expert.

Here is the blog post for Round 5 http://prairiedogracing282.blogspot.ca/2015/09/and-thats-wrap.html

Hey, I have not gone silent. I am just sitting here waiting for Round 5 to happen. Sept. 12 - 13.