aslcbr600

Yea I have just been fighting with the maintenance on this bike since day one......I didn't have anyone to come look at the bike with me and say yes or no on it. All of my friends left the state when we all got out of the military so I was on my own. The bike has 29.6k miles on it.....the fork oil has probably never been changed, it took me a couple hours to flush out the coolant system with distilled water and add water wetter. Cleaning the reseviore took me an hour alone......It probably needs new spark plugs, valve adjustment, the fork oil and seals need to be replaced, brakes need to be flushed out......I just got to the point with this bike where I feel like I bought a nightmare! It runs great in my opinion but with how long the last owner neglected maintenance makes me wonder how long it's going to last. On the 06 CBR600RRs the stock brake lines aren't good for the track, they expand with prolonged brake use and reduces your braking power until you slap steel braided lines in......so as you can see the list just keeps on growing and I haven't even been able to add a suspension upgrade or even a freaking full exhaust yet until all of that money is spent getting it up to snuff. I am just annoyed with it on some aspects.

Well right now my 600RR currently has a RS5 slip on and PCIII dynojet tune. I am a wrench turner myself, now when it comes to valve adjustment I will leave that to the experts but I don't even mind pulling off the valve cover just to see what the clearances are. It's just been a tough road getting this bike up to snuff.

Thanks for the input everyone, just a couple days ago I found out about the WERA classifieds although I will check out the NESBA one as well. I guess it wouldn't hurt to keep riding a 600, as mentioned above in the school you aren't pinning the throttle anyway. I have seen some 1000 race bikes but they are still about 1500-2000.00 more then a race built 600. Now when looking to purchase a used race bike what are some questions I should be asking? I expect the person has most likely gone down but as long as everything structurally is sound then cool with me. How many track miles would you say is a lot? I see bikes posted with 4,100mi but not all of them are track miles.....I see other listings where people are more picky about the motor and have it refreshed after every year. Thanks for the tip on the 08, I heard that was the model to go with but never caught the details on why! At this point brand doesn't really matter to me other then suzuki......sorry just not a fan of how they look! I am sure all of the 600's are great bikes.

This would just be a track bike only, I plan on going through all 4 levels at CSS and then most likely doing the race school after the 4 levels.......don't we all want to be pro racers? lol Only reason I brought up the R6 is because of how easy they are to find already track built for 1 and 2 because parts are easy to find for when you try to push that corner but you didn't quite make the turn. I know the R6 is on the side of no power until a million RPMs lol which is why I would prefer to have an 07 CBR600RR, they are great bikes but very tricky to find already race built. A lot of them are 04 or 06 models, mine is an 06 but the 07 they made some changes to the engine for a pretty decent boost in power, lighter bike and from what I read handles even smoother then my 06 as well. Even the radiator is bigger lol Ideally the 07 CBR600RR is what I would want for a 600 but yea.....hard to find track built and ready to go!

That is true, another thing mentioned in another forum that I didn't take into consideration was R6's are great track bikes and you can find parts for them very easily because it's a more common bike. I am really a Honda guy more then anything but I am not racing AMA or anything so the minor differences between the bikes probably wont even hit me very much until I am riding it to it's full potential. I have seen 06 R6's in full race ready condition going for 6k so being that parts are easier to find and the bike itself is cheaper I guess I am overlooking the total package per say.

Yes and no......time period wise I am probably very much a rookie in a lot of eyes......mileage and time on the bike on the other hand is totally different. I started riding out in CA and before I even bought my bike I was constantly watching videos on countersteering, braking, the very basics for the first time in the saddle. Long story short after 2 weeks of riding my buddy and I went up in some twisties and he had me lead and would watch me, pull me over if I was doing something wrong and correct it. After that about two weeks later I started watching TOWTII, took my self down Mulholland canyon (yup the famous one) and went at my own safe pace, if riders were coming up on me I moved over and let them pass which was usually the more seasoned guys in suits. Once I left CA I had about 2k miles under my belt, rode the bike whenever I could always finding ways to improve myself. I took a cross country trip of 2200mi from CA to the midwest in 2.5 days only riding from sun up to the start of sunset, being on the bike that long forced me to become more comfortable then ever with just regular riding alone! Since that trip I have racked up another 2600mi. I bought my bike in either March or April so my miles have racked up quick. After repeatedly watching TWOTII, reading the book and going out and recording myself with the gopro to see my body positioning, throttle control, my speedo to see how my mph is through the turns, how well I am holding a line and ect. Sorry for the long story but that is pretty much the gist of it, I am very comfortable on my bike and confident through the turns and everyone I ride with is always surprised to know I have only been riding a sportbike for about 5 months when they see me ride. I know with time comes expierence but you can do all the wrong things for 5yrs and build worse habits then a person like myself especially being so eager to learn! Yea I talked to a local racer around here, he just entered the advanced class this year and trying to get his race license. He has a 1000 and a 600, he said he was 3 seconds slower on the same track with the 1000 then his 600, yea I understand the 600 is more nimble and makes other riders feel more confident but just my thoughts is there are a lot of people that race liter bikes. Some are better then others just as with 600s but every time I sit on a liter bike I don't feel overwhelmed.....I know riding one is different but just saying. Unless it's one of the older ZX10R's those I would not feel right on......2008+ CBR1000RR for example doesn't feel like something I couldn't handle. I just don't want to learn everything on a S1000 and then go back to a 600 and end up craving more.

I am not sure if this would fit here or not but since it has to deal with handling the bike and techniques figured it somewhat fits here. Anyway, My 06 600RR maybe getting totaled (got swiped) and so instead of buying a stock bike and modifying it I would rather just buy a flat out track bike. I am attending the level 1 class on Oct 27th SOW and I am signed up to use the S1000 bike. I figure since I am learning on a S1000 why couldn't I just buy a race liter bike instead of buying a race 600 and then have to sell it later and buy a liter bike? My thoughts is will I be super competitive.....no......but just because I am on a liter bike doesn't mean I have to push anymore out of my comfort zone of what I would on a 600. I would rather grow into the bike and progress with my skill then do that with a 600 and then end up selling it and losing more money to buy a 1000. Just wanted to hear some perspectives on this.

Interesting! ^

The other thing TC does do well, is it protects tyres well too. Stopping a litre bike sliding too much (you want some slide if you can get it, ala nice darkies), but you don't want the bike destorying the tyre too quickly. Especially with tyres as expensive as they are. Bullet Ah that I did not know!

Yea that is the point I was getting at, when they advertise it as "it makes slower riders faster" then it isn't really benefiting the rider by learning how to control and feel bike without it first!

I always wondered what made handlebars push like that and cause people to lowside, I see it all of the time in the Mulholland videos! I just thought it was due to over countersteering.

Yea the "off the gas results" were what lead me to think with proper throttle control your suspension will pretty much be in it's compliant range. I will have to do some more reading on what would happen or what you would feel if you overloaded the front forks. I know tires can show how well your suspension is setup, for example if you are getting too much rebound your trailing edges or leading edges on your tread will be different heights which means you rebound settings need to be adjusted. That's about all I know.

Sorry for the lag - thanks for bumping the thread to get it back on top. (And hey, Bullet, you can jump in any time!! No worries on that!) OK, good job thinking this through. These answers are somewhat bike dependent - for example if your bike is a fire breathing dragon and hard to control in its powerband, you might intentionally enter a turn in a low RPM range, to keep you from being in the max power range while at full lean, to prevent you from spinning up the rear, or to help you be smooth on throttle application. On the other hand, if you ride a low HP bike, you migh have to be at a high RPM in your peak powerband just to get enough acceleration to stabilize the bike through the turn! Exactly right on your second point, if you are hitting the rev limiter mid-turn and it is making you hesitate on the gas or have to shift mid-turn, you would likely want to try entering the turn in a higher gear/lower RPM the next time to avoid that situation. If you are in too HIGH a gear, you can sometimes feel that the bike is not accelerating much... or you might just notice that other bikes are pulling away from you. Usually the ideal for racing would be to be have to MOST power available to you during your exit drive - at the point where you are standing the bike up and can do anything you want with the throttle. NOW - what about suspension compliance? What might the bike do, or what might you feel, that would let you know that you might NOT be in the ideal suspension range? (Hint - you may want to review Chapter 5 in Twist II for some help on this one.) I just read chapter 5, the things I saw in there that would let you know your suspension is out of range is reduced rear tire traction and the bike not holding a line. The other stuff I saw was more directly of throttle control......unless you are saying that with proper throttle control your suspension will always be in a compliant range?

I haven't been on a bike with traction control but not sure if I want it......seems like it takes the skill building out of the rider and relying more on the technology to make up for your mistakes which I don't think is right.

Sorry for the lag - thanks for bumping the thread to get it back on top. (And hey, Bullet, you can jump in any time!! No worries on that!) OK, good job thinking this through. These answers are somewhat bike dependent - for example if your bike is a fire breathing dragon and hard to control in its powerband, you might intentionally enter a turn in a low RPM range, to keep you from being in the max power range while at full lean, to prevent you from spinning up the rear, or to help you be smooth on throttle application. On the other hand, if you ride a low HP bike, you migh have to be at a high RPM in your peak powerband just to get enough acceleration to stabilize the bike through the turn! Exactly right on your second point, if you are hitting the rev limiter mid-turn and it is making you hesitate on the gas or have to shift mid-turn, you would likely want to try entering the turn in a higher gear/lower RPM the next time to avoid that situation. If you are in too HIGH a gear, you can sometimes feel that the bike is not accelerating much... or you might just notice that other bikes are pulling away from you. Usually the ideal for racing would be to be have to MOST power available to you during your exit drive - at the point where you are standing the bike up and can do anything you want with the throttle. NOW - what about suspension compliance? What might the bike do, or what might you feel, that would let you know that you might NOT be in the ideal suspension range? (Hint - you may want to review Chapter 5 in Twist II for some help on this one.) Will do thanks for your input!

Is this why I see people in MotoGP or WSBK their rear tire get a little squiggly after coming out of a turn and hitting a straight?

Hi mate, I don't want to jump into this as Hotfoot has already started a direction with you. She's pretty nusy at the mo, and I know she is struggling for time, so you might need to just bare with her a little mate. Bullet Oh I understand, I am open to anyones input which is the reason I bumped it that's all.

bump?

Assuming you are going for max overall speed, what factors can YOU think of that would help you decide what gear to use? At what point in the turn do you MOST need to be in the bike's powerband? How woud you know if you entered a turn at too HIGH an RPM? What would you feel on your exit drive if your RPM was too low? Regarding your second question: The Twist II book gives you a lot of things that will tell you when you are NOT in the most compliant suspension range - what indicators can you think of, that would let you know you are OUT of the most compliant suspension range? In deciding what gear to use you would want a gear that keeps you towards the bottom of your RPM range so you are not risking the bike coming from under you and you can have a better drive coming out of the corner instead of hitting your exit point and then shifting shortly after because you ran out of RPM right after the turn? As far as what point in the turn you most need to be in the powerband I would have to say the apex. As for knowing if you came into the turn at too high of an RPM would be if you found yourself chopping the throttle to avoid shifting mid turn or shifting mid turn because you ran out of RPM mid turn. Without doing any reading this what I think the answers are.

I like how you respond with questions, makes me think about it.....I will do some thinking/reading and report back lol

In the twist 2 video it mentioned that anything 600CC's and over 4000-6000RPM in 4th gear seems to be the most compliant range as far as being in the turn for suspension compression. Now 600's are higher revving bikes then a 1000 and generally from what I understand with a 600 you want to keep it in the higher RPM range so on the drive out of the corner you are in the power band. On my 600RR the power doesn't even come on until about 7500RPM I would say. 1. Do you really want to be that low in the RPM's in a turn with a 600? In a 1000 I could see because too much throttle would be a lot easier to lose traction. 2. How do you know when the suspension is in it's most compliant range when you are in mid turn? 3. One other question, I noticed in other videos I have watched they say "you should be in this gear at this turn" what justifies this? My only knowledge is you should be in whatever gear is best for your turn entry speed. What good is being in say 3rd gear if my turn in speed is putting me at 3000RPM into the corner?

I had good success at LOW RPM (maybe 30-40mph?) going from 4th to 3rd, acclerating a little in 4th then letting off the throttle and clicking the shift lever at the SAME INSTANT I let off the gas (no blip). At low RPM you are VERY unlikely to lock up your rear wheel, in fact in my experience if you are using clutchless downshifts is is VERY hard to lock up the rear ever because if there is that much load on the tranny it won't shift at all - personally I have never had the rear wheel ever lock up on a clutchless downshift. After you are comfortable getting the shift with just throttle-off action, then go to a little higher RPM, let off the gas and let the RPMs fall a little, then do a small blip and downshift. I think you'll be surprised how smooth and easy it is, once you get the feel of it. Once you get the timing figured out you can try it faster and at higher RPMs. If you blip too MUCH you can get a forward surge, too LITTLE or bad timing and it usually just won't change gears. If the timing is right the lever should click easily into gear - so DON'T put extra pressure on it to try to force it. It's easiest at higher gears and lower RPMs. It's by far the hardest to do in first gear, most riders I know that use clutchless downshifts WILL use the clutch to go down to first gear. Of course you would want to do this in a safe area (like a track or parking lot) since you will be thinking about your shifting instead of traffic! Keep in mind you can get coached on this at the school, it is available as an off-track drill. Cool thanks for the advice!

That makes sense to me, so what speed/gear range would be good to practice this in that would offer some forgiveness to get used to the timing and the feel of it before risking locking up the rear wheel at say 50mph-60mph? Thanks for the explanation!

The only guess I have is so you still have control over the bike and downshifting without blipping the throttle could jerk you forward transferring weight where it shouldn't go......kinda like going from half throttle to just completely letting off. Only thing I can think of!

Ok makes sense, now when it comes to doing it are you blipping the throttle and then upshifting or are you doing both at the same time?