aslcbr600

I was overlooking the race track map for the local track here and saw that from T7 to T8 on the black course (short course) where it has that horseshoe looking part of the track. Now how would you take a turn like that with either a qualifying line or racing line? I don't know if this will make any sense but just from looking at the track map this is how I would interpret the turn: from T7 to T8 I would be more towards the outside of the track and follow that into the black portion of the track and try to go as straight and upright as possible and then into a quick turn and take the inside of the line once the turn decreases. I would do it this way because I would spend less time leaned over, more traction, more throttle and carry more speed throughout the whole turn. http://www.cra-mn.com/wordpress/wp-content/themes/greyzed/images/downloads/BIR_TrackMap.pdf

Just curious to know if there is any possibility of CSS going to other tracks in the midwest or northern states? I see the schedule shows mostly the west coast and very few locations on the east coast but nothing in the middle....any chance of schools being held in new locations?

It's really interesting watching pro racers, especially those guys in GP. While it does show what is possible at the highest level, it does not necessarily mean that it is something that is beneficial to us "regular" riders, or that it's something we should even try to imitate. If I recall correctly, someone on the forum here (was that you, T-McKeen?) mentioned that Crutchlow rides that way simply to overcome setup limitations of the bike. He has said that he is too short to have his outside foot on the 'peg when cornering (since he leans so far off the inside I suppose). So we can guess that he would actually prefer to have his foot on both 'pegs, that surely would give him more control. What it does show is those riders amazing ability to ride around those kind of setup limitations... While it may not be a good idea to try and imitate having your outside foot off the 'peg mid-corner, I think it is very beneficial to be able to imitate the kind of adaptability that those riders show. What I mean is, if you can persist in trying to find a good body position on your current bike, and you eventually find it, that will give you great confidence knowing that you can get on any bike and be able to solve any body position issues. I have never been in that situation myself, I can only imagine that it must be very frustrating... the only thing I can suggest is to think about the exact differences between your bike and the CBR600. What do you need to achieve the same feel or body position on your own bike? Whether it be bike modifications or dramatic body position changes. I would look at all the geometry like footpeg-seat distance, seat-to-handlebar, handlebar-to-seat etc. Although you have probably already done all of that... it's a tough one, I don't know what else to suggest! Would a different seat not work? I am curious because I am thinking of trying it myself.

I know what you mean about being locked into the tank. I had a 06 CBR600 and now I have a 07 675 race bike. It felt really different then my CBR, the CBR felt very natural for me to lock into but the Triumph is taking a little bit of extra effort. However every bike has it's pros and cons. For me the adjustment to getting used to the 675 totally outweighs going back to a CBR. Although my CBR had vortex adjustable rear sets and the Triumph has fixed position GP rear sets so that makes a big difference too. Seems like you either need a custom tank (which I have heard of people doing) or consider a different bike. In the end it doesn't matter how fast the bike is, it's how fast the rider can be on the bike. If your not confident in your positioning on the bike you wont be able to push all the way. One thing I didn't see mentioned was a different seat? What kind of seat is on the bike? Maybe a thinner seat will allow you to keep your legs lower and grip more on the tank? Not sure if this would really help or not but just an idea because I know on my 675 the seat sits up a good 1/2 inch then my CBR did because the seat is thicker plus in the back the seat is actually raised off of the rear subframe.

That's a good point, I didn't think about it that way! When you say it like that I would much rather have the drive out of the corners rather then maximum corner entry speed and very little throttle roll on.

I am not tightening up on the bars, I just give it a little slight push on the bars (not downward) to counteract the wind pushing the bike. I am not getting all tensed up or scared just threw me off how much more this bike is pushed around more then I am used to. Of course it is always possible that since it's new to me I could be a little more weary about it causing either a mental SR or physical like being tighter on the bars then I am suspecting but I wasn't riding real hard just cruising around on some back roads by the house.

Oh, I don't know about that. It's just that they cannot go 100% like on a track, since the conditions can vary considerably from one lap to the next and because a lap is so long that nobody can remember the texture of the track down inch by inch like on a typical closed track. However, it's not like they just sit there idle. But hanging off to the extreme over bumps like these may not be the greatest idea for retaining control? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBi9IwjapQo&feature=related This is true, their bikes wiggle a lot in those surfaces without a lot of lean angle. They still manage to carry a lot of speed though, you think they are being reserved on those bikes, or being reserved to the conditions? Even with my sarcastic comment of lean angle I still think being their average speed of 127mph riding pretty hard through closed off roads lol.

which do you think is most important? Fastest in the middle of the turn? Or fastest at the end of the next straight? thinking about these points, is it possible to define? Bullet I would think more speed through the turn is most important, you can always brake a little deeper at the end of the next straight instead of relying on how much ground to make up pinning the throttle on the drive out of the corner? I think the other factor would be the layout of the track, if you have really tight turns you can only carry so much speed before running wide or off track so that would make you want to be faster at the end of the next straight.

Thanks for the input, I like Lorenzo's style better because it's smooth but still fast riding. It just brought up the question while watching IOM, I know it would be a culture shock if they had to actually get their body off the bike to make a turn lol I respect the guys but it's more a race of balls then skill it seems to me.

I just thought of something while watching isle of man TT, is it more ideal to carry a higher turn entry speed with more lean angle or slower turn entry speed with less lean angle but more throttle being applied through the turn because you have more contact patch on the tire? Myself personally I think it depends on the turn, tighter turns would result better from slower entry but more drive and faster turns would result better with a higher turn entry speed. Now what about a double apex turn? I think something like that could go either way? What if you are trying to pass someone in a race, which one would be more preferred?

I noticed not too long ago that even while wearing a 1pc suit and not sitting straight up but somewhat upright this bike is way more affected by the wind then my CBR was. I know my 675 race bike is going to be a lot lighter but I didn't expect the wind to have such a drastic affect on it. I am not tightening up on the bars making it worse, just crosswind really seems to push the bike around. The faster your going the more minute movements become amplified, my question is when riding these race bikes in more windy days how do keep from either SR's triggering or having the wind push you around too much? When I rode my CBR from CA to MN I did experience a pretty heavy crosswind that literally threw me off, my left foot slipped off the peg and I lost my balance a little bit but recovered quickly. It only affected me so much because I was riding upright in chill mode one handed and it just came out of nowhere. I am used to gusty winds but not on such a lighter bike.

I also think focus is a big part of it, every time I go out and ride the instructions are in my head....knee against tank, outside arm resting on tank, light on the bars, smooth throttle roll on, ect ect.....the more turns you take with focus the more muscle memory it becomes. For example I don't even have to think "look through the turn" or "throttle control" so when I am out there riding those are natural and now I can focus on the other things like where my knee is on the tank, the gap between myself and the tank, light on the seat ect ect..... It's just like any other sport, the more time you spend doing anything the better you become. Nobody wakes up one morning and goes to every riding level at CSS and 2 months later is in AMA lol. I haven't been riding very long (about 7 months now) however I am taking the time to learn the proper way to ride fast instead of doing all the wrong things for years and call myself an experienced rider. It's not how long you do something but the quality of the time spent. I also believe that some people are always going to be more natural at things then others, unfortunately no matter how hard we work on something you may never get to that point when the next guy got there with half the effort. This is why my 5'5" body is sticking with road racing and not basketball lol....

interesting read, even the studies of it helping depression and sleep.

Awesome thanks for the info, well I am going to have all winter to get my stuff in line and go from there.

Yea with it getting colder out here average of 50-55* degrees I look at reduced traction as well, the roads here don't require too much lean angle to begin with so I am not terribly worried. However if the turns were as tight as Mulholland would be a much different story lol.

Agreed. In fact, you should practice setting your corner speed using no brakes. Even when I start to pick up my pace, I am VERY light on the brakes. I have done this before but not on purpose, it all comes back to consistently practicing something and when it comes to braking points, pressure, entry speed all of that varies with me and that needs to change. Can't improve if you are always doing something different right?

Yea but the insurance isn't going to look at it that way....that rider is screwed if he thinks it's not his fault.

It's the bikers fault, at best the driver will get 30% maybe 40% fault due to improper lane change without signals and crossing the double yellow. The reason the biker will be at fault is because the car assumed control of that lane and was proceeding forward in that lane. The person in front of you is your responsibility not the person behind you. It's one of those crappy situations but I ran into something very similar to this and its basically the same thing. It will be ruled as the biker attempted emergency braking however he plowed his bike into the car which cause the accident. The driver didn't swerve into the biker and clip his tire, the car was in the lane and had control of the lane.

No I don't get off the brakes during downshifts completely but I do let off some pressure. Actually I have caught myself getting off the brakes because I try to add a little throttle when going down into the next gear and that makes me get off the brakes.

I would practice the turn at speeds I am relatively comfortable with so I am not thinking about what could go wrong instead focusing on how the bike is reacting to my body position. The time when SR's kick in for me is quick braking, I haven't had much of an opportunity to practice deep braking before turns. I don't freeze or lock up but it's a little nerve racking at times and I find myself focusing too much on what lies ahead instead of continous downshifts and braking. Example, turn is coming up I start on the brakes, downshift, brakes................downshift, brakes..........down down, brakes damn I messed up that turn preperation lol I know why this is happening though. I am not setting brake markers for myself so my braking points are not consistent. Just something I need to work on.

Ah I see so are you still keeping a gap between you and the tank (fist distance) or when going in for a hook turn are you shifting right up to the tank? In the video he was explaining how difference in body position on the seat affects where the weight is placed on the bike, wasn't sure if he was implying that you want to be as forward as possible on the tank or not. In the video he wasn't up against the tank but when the bike is on stands you don't get the full feel for the position you just get an idea.

Oh wow I didn't know the GP bikes had that kind of technology! Does anyone have a picture of this body position? It kinda makes sense but of course visual is always better, the video didn't show a whole lot.

To make sure I am understanding this, would a hook turn be used for a decreasing radius turn? For example in GP I see the riders coming into a very tight turn and they keep a very tight line without increasing the lean angle. However I don't see much change in their body position, like the body position shows in this video: Now I know there is no single way to ride a bike around the corners and different schools teach different things but I find it interesting to see how they take such a tight turn and not run wide or have to increase lean angle to make the turn. Sure you could counter steer more but as we all know that also increases lean angle and eventually you run out of tire so there has to be ways to make that decreasing radius turn. I know this is considered a more advanced body position skill but I am just trying to grasp the knowledge of it and understand how it's applied and used properly.

Yea I will stick to recovery drinks and stretching........lol I am not being paid millions of dollars like top athletes to sit in a ice cold bath after a workout.

This is a good idea for a thread!