aslcbr600

Oh wow thanks for the tip! Didn't know that!

Oh wow, I will look into those brands. I figured some of them would short out but never thought they would catch fire!

I could be over thinking this as well, again I have never ran on race tires before just higher performance street tires such as the Michellin Power Pure. Would it be safe to say that even though one side of the race tire may be a little colder then the other based on the track that it would still grip harder then a street compound tire? I guess I feel like you guys are talking percentage limits and I am talking general grip limitations and don't want to go down because my race tires were as slick as ice.

Yea that's exactly what I was referring to! I am assuming the only way to get to know the limit is in practice and slowly progress on that cold side of the tire and see how fast you can go without losing grip?

Ah ok, that makes sense. A little off topic but when it comes to choosing tire warmers, what should you be looking for? There are different brands and different prices.

So basically if you have tire warmers you can just go all out once the flag drops and if you don't have tire warmers then you have to work the tires in each lap and build up the heat. This brings to mind when Rossi hit a chicane and the left side of the tire wasn't as hot and he ended up lowsiding. That brings me to another question, let's say the track has more right hand turns then left hand turns. Do you have to work your way into the left hand turns to build up heat on that side of the tire before pushing deeper lean angles? I know track conditions will play a factor as well, such as if the track is surface is cold, or wet would determine how you ride but this is just in general considering the track was at optimum temperature. Close on the tire temperature, for the D675 it's 31 front and 23 rear. The previous owner told me that and it stuck with me like glue lol. Brad, thanks for the links!

2 days ago I bought a track bike with all kinds of goodies, I bought an 07 Triumph 675. Ohlins rear shock, GP internals, ect ect list goes on! This bike is the first bike I have ever rode with Dunlop UK racing slicks, since the bike is so new to me and completely different then my mildly modified CBR600RR I wanted to do some riding up and down some back roads just to get a feel for it. I know that with racing tires you need tire warmers and get a good solid lap or so in until you really start pushing them, I wasn't trying to drag a knee or anything I just wanted to get some seat/familiar time with it briefly. I got the tires somewhat warm, for sure they were warmer then any street tire even after a spirited ride but I still didn't want to risk them not having proper grip.....my question is how do you know when your tires have reached enough temperature to start leaning into turns? All I did was just slowly work into the turn but as we all know, without confidence in your tire grip the less confidence you will have in the turn. Without tire warmers and hearing even after tire warmers you still need a solid warm up lap I knew I wasn't going to reach proper tire heat for any substantial grip. This question is for track purposes, not street use with racing tires. Just after this brief ride today it brought this question up. Also I am used to car racing slicks where it has the holes in it so you know how much rubber you have left, on these tires I don't see that so what is it your looking for to know how much tire life you have on these slicks?

1. Yes the track bike I just bought has pads 2. Stomp grip pads, bike just came with it 3. I never had tank grips before so it's hard for me to say how good they are compared to others but having them vs not.....amazing difference!

Now that makes perfect sense, it's better to sacrifice a little bit of each gear to get yourself setup before the turn point faster and get back to the throttle faster for better drive out of the corner! Thanks for the explanation that put it into perspective for me.

Man I am just itching to get back on a bike......I am currently bikeless until next Tuesday when I pick up a 675 race bike. I have only been without a bike for about a week now and it feels like forever!

Makes sense, thanks!

I am not sure if I am following your question here but in the middle of the turn you should already be locked in following your line so I would have to say very little? Awesome, thanks for the link. It's starting to make more sense now!

A racing gearbox eh? So the trans gear ratios are different is what you are saying correct?

Just got done reading chapter 19 about pivot steering and pivot points. Currently what I do is put more weight on the inside peg rather then the outside, I was told from a track coach that weighting the inside peg allows the front tire to bite more for traction. I tried this and I have to admit it gave me a lot more confidence in the turn. Now after reading this I also see where Keith is coming from as well, if I am at a steep lean angle I personally don't think putting too much weight on the inside peg would be a good idea. I just imagine that if there was a bump on the track that it would just push the bike from under you because so much is resting on that one side? On the other note, I remember when Crutchlow had his injury and his left leg (outside leg in a right turn) was just almost dangling off the peg. I also see it being hard to use the outside peg as a pivot point in a steep lean angle, how much weight can you really put on the outside peg when you are leaned over that far? Just doesn't seem like at that point you would have much if any leverage at all. Can someone please explain this to me?

Did I just hear a choppy throttle at 4:26? lol jk, so from what I can tell from the video you kept your RPM's pretty low (although your on a twin motor) less aggressive throttle while leaned over but still rolling on the throttle. When you hit the "S" I noticed it was smooth, not a real hard side to side flick but not lazy either. Pretty much seems to me when it's wet just be a little more on the conservative side with throttle and make sure your steering and movements are smooth and more progressive vs quick aggressive movements you would perform on a nice dry track. Thanks for posting the video!

I found my clarification just now when I was doing some more reading in the twist 2 book, this comes from chapter 16 second page: Steering Rule Number Two What's the rule? Steer as-quickly-as-possible in every turn. As-quickly-as-possible means: According to the turn's demands. Obviously, you wouldn't give it a snap-over at 10 mph in a parking lot, because you will fall. On the high end, (say, coming up to a 120-mph turn), you're not going to get it turned that quickly. You won't necessarily fall, but you just can't snap a bike at 120 mph because the gyro effect is too strong. So, the as-quickly-as-possible is tailored* to the turn but it's always A.Q.A.P .

Sorry about the delay in this. So, the biggest difference is of course the tyres are different, and have a different compound to deal with the rain (they're very soft), and get warm even in the rain. The applilcation of the brakes is more gradual, but still very hard braking in the rain is definitely possible. I generally use exactly the same braking markers when racing in the dry as the rain, though of course you approach the turns a litle slower in terminal velocity. Trail braking, all other usual braking techniques are still available, but the margins for error and feel are definitely reduced. If you want to see some video of it in the rain, let me know, I'll post some up. Bullet X2 I would also like to see some videos also!

It was almost like he was barely pulling the clutch in to downshift......pulled lever more like a quick pump then anything. Is there a reason why to even use the clutch at that point?

Ah I was reading something on that earlier, I just haven't been practicing it yet because I am waiting to get my new race bike. It has a quick shifter so I can upshift quickly, just have to learn the clutchless downshifting method as well.

Those were pretty quick downshifts, what exactly is the drill or method? I am comfortable upshifting mid turn but I haven't done much downshifting mid turn because I feel there is a greater risk in upsetting the handling on a downshift rather then an upshift.

Good point! I didn't really think of that too much, I rode my 600RR from CA to MN which is 2200mi in a little over 2 days. I spent from roughly 7am to 7pm on the bike only stopping for gas, snack and water. Of course that is just averaging a 90mph speed and occasional turns but I have spent a lot of time on the seat of a bike. It was just a thought, merely more for bang for your buck on track time and experience rather then worrying about winning an endurance race.

That's a good point, maybe I will have to try 3 fingers and see how that differs from using 2......I used to use 4 and then felt that I didn't have control of the throttle the way I wanted to and with 2 fingers I do feel like I am putting more weight on the bars but that's just casual riding. If I am on a more spirited ride I use the proper body technique of squeezing the tank with my legs to avoid unwanted forward weight on the bars while braking.

I understand the power band aspect of it, I guess my question is this. In a racing application is it better to waste time shifting up 2 gears when you have RPM left just to downshift back down 2 maybe 3 gears before the turn or even with the lack of upper RPM having to spend less time downshifting and still more time on the throttle before the turn. Just seems to me like if you are spending more time on the shifting when you could be on the throttle longer would outweigh say the 10hp drop in peak RPM. In other words wouldn't I be faster if I spent 3 more seconds on the throttle and 1 second on the downshift before the turn rather then 3 seconds on the downshift and then hitting your turn in point, lean angle set, back on the throttle.

Here is the video I am referring to, starts at 2:08 on the straight

I was just watching some youtube videos of the level 1 class and granted it's the level 1 class so it's not the more veteran CSS students. However I see this on other on bike videos too during races. Why do people short shift 3-4k rpms before redline? I also see them bringing in the power but then shifting at say 13k rpms out of 16k from 3rd to 4th then go up another 1-2k rpms and then shift again to 5th just to downshift 2 gears before the next turn......seems like a whole lot of wasted movement and time. I also see GP guys shift mid corner but even pros make mistakes or have to adjust something on the spot mid turn to get the drive they need coming out of the exit. Although GP guys don't shift up 2 gears and waste 6k-7k rpms in the process either.