aslcbr600

The book arrived today and I am already on page 56, I have to say I love this book so far. Maybe for the more advanced racer/ trackday rider this book so far would be a little more of a refresher but for a novice like me it's starting to fill in some holes that were left after reading the Twist II book. I am taking notes as I read the book and I am honestly not disappointed with the material at all. I will however say that I would still advise Twist II to be read prior to reading this book because the information isn't quite as detailed in other areas such as in Twist II when it comes to handle bar pressure and throttle control, things like that. The throttle control in this book is dedicated more to racing application but still requires the knowledge from Twist II So far I think both books kinda play off each other!

It's a mechanical operated clutch and it already has adjustable levers but since I have smaller hands I have to play with it a little more to try and find that balance between being able to reach the lever with just 2 fingers and not pinch my other fingers as I pull the lever in. I am not sure why other people do it but for me I like to feel that I am in control and if my palm is the only thing on the grip with aggressive braking it's not the most comfortable feeling. No I am not putting my weight on the bars while braking so it's not me locking my elbows and relying on a death grip to keep me on the bike. It's just one less thing you have to worry about if your grip is already established.....for me it's just one less thing to think about and one less step I have to take before setting up for the next turn. Not saying there is a specific advantage to it but it's one of those things that comes down to rider preference, example Rossi uses all 4 fingers on his clutch and brake levers, some riders use 2 or 3 fingers.

The shift pressure was very different from my CBR600 to my Daytona 675, I felt the pressure difference between using the clutch and not using the clutch and the pressure was the same. It feels pretty stiff compared to the CBR but that's not always such a bad thing because it could keep you from going into a lower gear then you wanted to a little easier. One thing I didn't do was fully close the throttle, I knew you laid off the throttle but not to fully close it as this would be engine braking if you didn't downshift right as you closed the throttle so I am sure that didn't help my situation. I think things are starting to be a little more clarified now that HF mentioned to think of the throttle and shifter connected together, it puts the timing in a much better perspective to understand because watching videos and even in the Twist 2 video I still wasn't 100% clear on the timing. I didn't practice it a whole lot just a few trials because I didn't want to risk messing something up if I were to continue practicing this the improper way. By any chance does anyone know how to adjust the clutch lever so you don't have to pull it in as far? I thought I heard there is a way you can do this.

It was a nice warm fall day today of 55* so I decided to take the bike out up and down this back road close to the house. I was practicing the 2 finger clutch method for upshifting/ downshifting just to see how it felt compared to clutchless shifting. Well needless to say pinching your fingers between the lever and the grip gets really old after about 2-3 times of doing it. I was practicing some more clutchless downshifting, I have a quick shifter so I don't need to use the clutch anyway for that so I was just focused on the clutchless downshifting. My timing still seems a little off and I am not very smooth at it, this is how I would describe what I am doing because I don't want to get into the habit of doing it wrong. 1. start to put pressure on the shifter 2. push down 3. blip throttle I am feeling like the timing is off because sometimes on the downshift it doesn't feel crisp, feels more sloppy and other times it feels a little smoother. I kinda get the feeling that I am downshifting and then blipping the throttle but the bike doesn't jerk so maybe it's just a fraction of a second improvement I need on the timing? I am not putting braking into the mix I am only focusing on the downshifting and blipping itself so I am not distracted with brake lever pressure. I have also anticipated the gear change and have jerked the bike with the throttle blip before I actually downshifted but that is just because it feels weird not using the clutch so it's almost like I am hesitating on putting enough force to the shifter to push it down at times. Hence my reason for thinking my timing is off even when I do downshift. Also wanted to add that I was doing this from speeds of 50-60mph going from 3rd to 2nd gear

Yea I wasn't looking for a cornering book so I am glad it's not focused on that, would you say it's worth 25.00? lol

Call me crazy but I'm not sure how the "No Brakes" drill is going to make you better on the brakes, I don't think the issue (at least not for me) has anything to do with setting entry speed or your overall sense of speed, but instead your sense of deceleration. I think the drills Elrick posted would be most helpful, I'm just not sure where I can find a parking lot I can practice braking from 120 mph in. lol yea that is what I was thinking too about the speed.....Elrick must have a drag track in his back yard lol....granted there are some open roads here however it's not the police that scare me it's the chance of a whitetail deer popping out of the woods and paying me a visit.

So how do you organize all of the information? Did you draft some excel template or something?

Do you guys use the race day records that are in the back of the twist 2 book or do you have your own style of notes keeping? I am thinking about getting a binder and printing off some sheets to keep track of my progress and how different setups give different results. What about note keeping during/after a CSS level? I haven't attended a class yet, I was supposed to attend the one this month on the 27th at willow but I can't take the time off work so I had to reschedule. I think notes comparisons really help keep track of everything but organizing it in a way that it all makes sense helps too!

It's nice to see what the coaches want to work on as well. I really like that no brakes practice! Good luck!

If you haven't already read the orgininal Twist of the Wrist, there is some very interesting material on braking. It up-ends the whole idea of having a specific starting point for your braking. I haven't read the original just the twist 2 book, I will have to take a look at the original and check it out!

I am glad it's still based on his principles, I just like what other techniques the book goes over that Twist 2 doesn't like different racing lines, crashing and ect. After this book there is another I want to checkout as well but going to keep it one book at a time and make sure I understand the material in each book before frying my brain! lol. What exactly do you mean by a due review? Did you think there was conflicting information in the book? It wont get here for another 4 stupid days!! Of course none of my local book stores had it either!

I am only posting this because Keith has his own training inputs also within the book otherwise I wouldn't post this here. I recently purchased "The technology of riding MotoGP skills" book wrote by Andy Ibbott and pieces from Keith Code, I am still waiting for the book in the mail but from the reviews I read Keith does a really good job of going over how to understand your suspension settings and how to dial in your suspension with a 10 step process. The reviews looked promising but the bigger picture of why I purchased the book was because it goes into more of the racing part of riding. Has anyone else read this book yet? Seems like people were skeptical of it and once they cracked it open they considered it just as helpful as the Twist books.

Yea I believe that would be a better drill as well. I don't want to lead you astray but I think you should practice the "no brakes" drill. Set your entry speed using only the throttle (obviously use the brakes if you must to avoid blowing the corner). This drill helps you develop your sense of speed. As you better understand what speed you want to enter a given corner it then should help you better understand where/when/how much braking must take place. Yup already been doing this, just need to understand braking points and procedures better.

Unfortunately riding season is over here so I will have to practice at a CSS class or wait until winter is done. I will keep this drill in mind though! I think that is what's messing me up is I am setting my braking points as if I am coming to a stop when I only need to set my entry speed.

My goal is to complete at least L1 and L2 before next race season, from there continue doing trackdays in between race weekends. As far as what I want to work on specifically is braking, braking, braking and more braking! This is my weakest point right now, I always feel like I got on the brakes too early and have this dead space of time where I could have been on the gas longer and end up in neutral throttle (not rolling on or off) before the turn entry point making me realize I could have been on the gas that much longer. I have been working on just carrying out my throttle without using brakes and that's good but going from drive out to braking to turn entry is where I am lacking, a small portion of it is I am on a different bike now with a much more aggressive braking setup so I need to realize I can comfortably brake later! I went from stock lines, tokico brakes, OEM pads to steel braided lines, better master cylinder, nisin brakes with EBC race pads so quite the drastic change in braking performance!

Here is an example and it's already setup: http://weraclassifieds.com/ads/2005-e350-diesel-ext-cargo-van/

1. Diesel van- this way you can still tow a small trailer if you wanted to. 2. Ramp and pushing, unless it's a tall van you wont be able to clear it if your on the bike. 3. If you install a wheel clamp and some side bracing so you can tie the bike down really solid then it should be good. This is not my personal experience but from people I know who have done it.

at the risk of sounding snobby... did you even go thru one complete screening of the TOTW2 DVD? because all the answers you asked is in there ... I have watched it many times, it specifically says "gradually trailing the brake off is the accurate way to find your entry speed" then it says "despite it's drawbacks trail braking is also a useful tool". I don't know how this turned into the proper way to brake.....all I was asking is how often do you find yourself trail braking? I don't see anywhere in the video where it says it's best to trail brake like I asked. I apologize if I sound flustered but this has been taken out of context and seems like people are taking it as me asking when to brake, how to brake and ect.....that is not what I asked. Sorry if I spoke in an intrusive way, I do trail brake alot downhill imho , esp on 180 degree positive banking downhill corners, the gravitational , incline and bank angle makes it fun and imho far safer than leveled roads where i adhere to TOTW2's brake markers and pre-corner procedures. the rear sus still is in the mid stroke while i do that so i cant be far off the mark i guess Now that's what I am talking about lol.....nothing against you I guess maybe I didn't explain well enough exactly what I was looking for in my previous posts. So your basically saying that the gravitational pull makes it less risky for the front tire to slide?

at the risk of sounding snobby... did you even go thru one complete screening of the TOTW2 DVD? because all the answers you asked is in there ... I have watched it many times, it specifically says "gradually trailing the brake off is the accurate way to find your entry speed" then it says "despite it's drawbacks trail braking is also a useful tool". I don't know how this turned into the proper way to brake.....all I was asking is how often do you find yourself trail braking? I don't see anywhere in the video where it says it's best to trail brake like I asked. I apologize if I sound flustered but this has been taken out of context and seems like people are taking it as me asking when to brake, how to brake and ect.....that is not what I asked.

Did you read Rea's comments about how the MotoGP tyres allowed hard braking even when leaned over 50 degrees? No I can't say I remember seeing that, although that would make sense how they can do some of the things they can without losing the front end. I am not saying I want to use it all of the time, I think it's great to have different skills in your toolbox. If everyone rode the same then there wouldn't be much of a competition it would just come down to bike technology. Certainly I will not argue with it's better to be slow in and fast out however I am sure there are times when you can misjudge your late braking and have too much speed into the corner so that is where the trail braking skill would come in handy because being slightly faster in and slower out I would imagine being better then running too wide off of your line and allowing people to pass you and then making up for time loss or even running off track.

Interesting, I will go search the forum and find some other information about trail braking and hopefully find when and where it could be a better choice. Not that it could be used all of the time but would it be safe to say there are areas when racing that trail braking could come in handy? The reason I brought this up was because if memory serves me right I was watching Lorenzo trail braking in the middle of a chicane, I figured he may have done this to shed a little speed before the next turn?

How often would you say you trail brake into a corner? I didn't really understand trail braking until I just watched the TWOT2 again, it's so true that every time you watch it you learn something new or it clarifies something as well. I always thought trail braking was when you used the rear brake and slid the rear tire into the turn or is that just another form of trail braking? After watching the video I realized it's using the front brake and easing off into the turn once you have reached your turn entry speed. I know trail braking when the track is wet is generally not ideal but I am sure with practice it could be done precision. Or would you avoid trail braking at all when the track is wet? If I am not mistaken in the video it says trail braking into the turn is the preferred method of braking.

Let me ask you this, Are you keeping a solid line or are you finding yourself adjusting mid corner? Are you quick turning or being lazy? Is your upper body in line with your lower body? From my understanding deep lean angles are cool for pictures but adding increased lean angle when it is not needed for the turn makes your body positioning awkward and the turn isn't as smooth or fast. Saying your corner speed is 40-50mph doesn't really help much, it's kinda like saying "in T7 I don't know if I can go faster or not" without a video or picture of the turn it's hard to say if that speed is even sufficient for a deeper lean angle. You may be taking the turn properly but just because your knee isn't on the ground doesn't mean you didn't do it right. Hope this helps.

I am sorry man I am kinda lost on your question, I am having a hard time understanding what the straight after the horseshoe affects the horseshoe itself. Am I misreading something? OK, let me be less Socratic and more direct, then: Would you say that there are multiple good lines that you could take through the turn? Would it be likely that some of these lines would sacrifice drive out of the turn (ie exit speed and acceleration) in favor of spending shorter time in the turn itself? How would the length of the following straight affect your choice of line in the turn, if you're trying to lower your laptimes? HTH, Kai I was also thinking if the track is wide enough you could almost treat it like a double apex turn, take the inside line and exit wide on the straight and then turn back in to the inside line on the other part of the horseshoe. I suppose if you can't add enough throttle through the turn on the outside line it might not make up for the added distance you have to go vs someone taking the inside line. As far as the straight would be how much speed you can gather up, if there isn't much speed to gain then taking a tighter line could be better. That's more along the lines of what I was thinking but you just explained it 10X better lol.

It's difficult to judge distances/turn radii from the map, so allow me to ask back: would the length of the straight after the horseshoe affect how you would attach the horseshoe itself? I am sorry man I am kinda lost on your question, I am having a hard time understanding what the straight after the horseshoe affects the horseshoe itself. Am I misreading something?