Hotfoot
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Posts posted by Hotfoot
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Thanks Hotfoot. This website will account for tire circumference in calculations
Exactly the one I was thinking of, thank you for finding the link!
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The mesh is standard in all leathers as far as I know but there is also mesh undergear worn inside those leathers. I have not tried those as it's difficult for a woman to go around with see-through undergear lol. We may as well just wear non mesh baselayers.
In all honesty, it's difficult to see men wearing them too. Sometimes you just see things you dont wanna see lol.
AMEN to everything you just said!!!!
And you just hit upon one of the primary reasons I like the Underarmour shirts and shorts, a little more modest than walking around in a weird see-through bodysuit with a zipper all the way up the front.
The Moto-D suits are a lot better because the holes in the mesh are very small and so it isn't as transparent.
When everyone was wearing the older style wide-mesh suits I knew a lot more about where everyone's tattoos and piercings were than I ever really wanted to know....
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Might not be the actual name of the drill (been a long time), but I was wondering if there's a limit to application of the throttle while using the technique? Can I try on my Literbike, coming out of a deep corner, stand it up and go WOT without reservation of becoming stratospheric?
Pickup drill.
No way anyone can answer this for you as it depends on the traction conditions, such as: what tire are you using, what is the tire temperature and surface temp, is there any dust, water or oil on the surface, is it bumpy, does your rear suspension adequately keep the tire in contact with the pavement, are YOU the rider sitting in a position that will not upset the bike, is your throttle application smooth vs abrupt, etc.
Generally speaking as long as you have very good tires and very good traction conditions and reasonably smooth throttle application, a literbike would normally wheelie before losing traction when upright.
But, your timing and throttle control had better be good, because if you slam open the throttle abruptly and are still partially leaned over, or your body is not locked in well, there is potential for a big wobble in back that can pitch you off.
The idea behind pickup drill is to maximize traction under acceleration, but ALSO (and arguably more importantly, from a safety standpoint) to get your body and the motorcycle in a good position to save a slide should you start to lose traction. It's not just about standing the bike up, do you remember the relationship between what your body is doing and what the bike is doing, in Pickup Drill?
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Given no change in throttle position, how much does the RPM increase from vertical to full tilt boogie? Sorry, I'm not yet at the point where I can mind my tachometer on corner entry. And perhaps my hearing isn't as sensitive as I thought, but you must be right cause...it just is! Or maybe the habit of rolling on is well ingrained (thank Gregg) and I'm feeling for traction while verifying trajectory, using up all my available attention units.
I believe it would be difficult to answer this because it depends on tire size, tire profile, the gear you are in, starting RPM, and speed, and how much you can lean over for your given bike (a Harley with sideboards won't crank over as far as an RS125 with a brave 11 year old kid on it). You could probably, with a lot of math effort, identify the increase for your particular bike on your particular tires by measuring the circumference of the tire at the center of the tire versus the circumference at the contact patch when you are fully leaned over (just look at the wear pattern to find where to measure), then calculate the difference and then get into the gear ratio versus engine speed to figure out how much faster the engine would spin on the smaller circumference, or maybe you could make a rough guess just by comparing the % difference of center circumference vs leaned over circumference and relate that the % change of RPM.
From a purely riding standpoint, I'd say it won't be very noticeable UNLESS you are nearly at the rev limiter already and leaning it over might make you HIT the limiter, in which case you need to shift before leaning it over OR change your gearing to better suit the track you are riding. If, for example, you are topped out completely in your highest gear and will hit the rev limiter when you lean over in the turn, you may need to gear the bike higher, or get a more powerful bike!
If you are riding a 2-stroke low HP bike, however, managing the very narrow power band is extremely important and this can be a big issue, a small change in RPM can put you in (or out) of the power band and knowing that the RPM will rise as you lean over is very useful information. Come to think of it, a 2-stroke rider could probably TELL you how to calculate the change in RPM, and maybe one of those gear calculators on the sprocket manufacturers websites would have a calculator that could figure it out for you.
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If you enter a high speed corner off-throttle, then gently crack open the gas, are you, at that point, speeding up, or could you still be slowing down?
Ooh ooh! Ask me! Ask me!
I think the answer is that you could still be slowing down. Just turning the bike slows it, so you would need more throttle in a turn to maintain the same speed as you had before the turn.
Yes, absolutely. It often comes as a surprise to riders - especially in high speed turns where wind resistance is also a factor - just how much throttle it takes to actually INCREASE speed in a turn.
(On the flip side, it sometimes comes as a surprise to ME how much SOME riders are willing to crank OPEN the throttle in the middle of a turn!!
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Not sure if anything was purged but the format has been changed a couple of times, the headings are not all the same as they used to be, so something you posted in one section might be in a different section now than it was before.
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They were good in that you can often pick them up despite elevation changes, but not as good as a big encircled X on the track surface for defining a specific 2-dimensional point in space/time to perform an action. There is some terrain that hides the exit cone for T8 until you get close enough. But hey, even a "bad" RP is better than no RP, right? (need a dubious smilie here).
The result is that my lines were vague. I'm not sure if the cones helped or hurt, but immediately I saw the value of the "Circle X" that CSS uses at The Streets for example. I guess it must be a "this isn't our track to vandalize" sentiment. I do think I missed out on the value of really finding MY OWN RP's and tried to work within the confines of what was spoon fed and expected of me.
There were 3 cones setup for each corner to establish "the line". Cones don't tell you lateral displacement from track edge where "the line" exists, so I found myself experimenting with this too. I found that using all the track (extreme lateral edges) all the time isn't always a good idea. The exit cone for 5 (long left) and the apex cone for T6 I found troubling and it was....(Aha! moment) here I now think that the lines for T8 were heavily influenced!
I think if I visit this track in the future I will instead look at it as a section or series of turns.
OK! This sounds like an excellent plan. I totally agree that a cone at the edge of the track does not give you enough info about where to be on the track from left to right, and on a, say, 20 ft wide track there is a huge difference in using a turn point on one side versus the other versus somewhere in the middle.
I also very much like your idea to look at the SERIES of turns next time, to make a plan to find a line that gets you through the whole section efficiently. Well done on thinking that through!!
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I start with Underarmor and moved my way up from there. Just being able to don my leathers easier was a massive deal.
I use Underarmour and have been REALLY happy with it - but when you say moved your way up from there, what did you move up to, specifically? The MotoD undersuits are really nice but I like (for myself) the flexibility of separate shorts/pants and shirt, so I can mix and match warm or cool layers, and wear underneath regular clothes for quick changes back and forth between regular clothes and leathers. I'm due for some new stuff though, if you found something even better than Underarmour, I'm interested to hear about it.
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From a convenience perspective, I cook out of my toyhauler ..... you can leave the ingredients your trailer for a long time without refrigeration, along with canned tuna, garlic, and onions.
Sounds like your toyhauler has it's own unique bouquet!
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I was usually looking for the exit cone (zone actually). The Org I was with had established cones on TP, Apex, Exit but I often find they only work at certain speeds and if I'm not there yet, it doesn't work well (for me). But I use them as a general guide until I find my own points.
OK, good, with those three points (turn point, apex, and exit) you can establish an arc through the corner, a plan for where you want to be.
Here is a question I'll throw out to EVERYONE, let's hear your answers:
If you CHANGE your turn point, what else changes in that turn?
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Welcome, and I love your "interests" listed - especially "toyhaulering".
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My experience is hydration is more important than the kind of food I consume at the track. I had episodes of dizziness and fatigue after I forgot to drink water after each session. pH 9.5 water and potassium pills (you will have to eat a lot of bananas to intake the same quantity of potassium than some of those pills) have the best impact on my performances.
This has been my experience too - water and salt/potassium are most important for me, especially on a hot day, but I do need to eat enough to maintain my energy level, and sometimes I find that difficult.
My husband has been experimenting with some Hammer Nutrition products made for bicyclists that are all powders and gels and are each formulated specifically for before, during and after heavy exertion. I don't have the discipline for that myself but I do notice that at the end of a very fatiguing race day/race weekend, he has more energy at the end than I do. He also can take in some weird gel substance instead of a meal mid-day and is less affected by that during his next race than if he had some sort of heavy or filling food (like, say, a racetrack cheeseburger). I certainly can't eat much before a race and that is why I have to carefully manage a good breakfast (tough on a race morning) and some small snacks through the day, otherwise I tend to eat very little and then start feeling a bit drained about mid-afternoon.
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It was convincing my wrist that I was in the right place on the track and that my reference point would appear if I continued.
OK, good observation. Which reference point was that, that you were waiting to appear? (As in, what did that reference point mean to you? I don't need to know what the point actually was - curb, mark on the pavement, etc. - I am curious about how you were USING it.)
What is the minimum number of reference points you need to have in a corner?
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If you turn every corner into a max lean endeavor, that only means that, for the entry speed that you have selected, the bike will be describing a circular trajectory with the smallest radius possible.
For turns that require less speed/lean angle combination or that are less tight, you will overturn the curve or proper line.
Then, in the best case, you may be hitting an excessively early apex and subsequently running wide in your way out the turn.
Easy solution to an early apex is a later turn-in. Consequently, wouldn't the solution to a too small turn radius be to go faster?
What if it is a long turn that tightens up at the end? Going in faster might not be an option; you'd need to slow down for the later part of the corner but if you are at max lean for the bike/tires you would not be able to brake effectively.
I referred to the "plan versus idea" concept in Soft Science because you need to make a PLAN for each corner, based on the characteristics of the corner and the specific RESULT you want to achieve. If you try to apply a particular IDEA to every corner, such as "getting the bike over on the sidewall for every corner" you can get frustrated by poor results because corners are different! You can also run into multiple ideas that might conflict with each other ("brake as late as possible for every corner", "get on the throttle before the apex") or conflict with what you are observing is actually happening to you in the corner. I can't possibly explain it as clearly or hit it from as many different angles as Keith Code does in the book, it really is worth a read if you can get your hands on a copy.
Back to your original question - you were looking for the thing to standardize. Well, for the particular turn you used an as example, you said that once you had the line figured out, you were happy with the result. So what did you need to find, and then consistently hit, to get that same line every lap in that corner?
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Hmmm...thank you for spelling that out. I had a hunch that was where you were going and I'm glad that you went there. I will remember that next outing to try to walk the track in the wee hours.
Any thoughts on getting the bike over on the sidewall for every corner?
This is a good question for the group. Can you think of any types of corners or situations where it would NOT be productive to take the bike all the way to it's maximum possible lean angle? What advantages could be potentially be gained by using less lean angle?
I think the exceptions would be slow corners and quick-change chicanes.
Do you think there is any one item that is Primary to standardize to help one to nail any particular corner?
Quick change chicanes are an excellent example of a place where leaning the bike over to its max possible angle might not be optimum, yes.
To answer your question, I think you should take a look at "The Soft Science of Motorcycle Racing" by Keith Code. In Chapter Three there is an explanation of the difference between an idea and a plan. I suppose if there IS any one item that is "primary to standardize to help one nail any particular corner" it would be having a PLAN for THAT corner, as opposed to an IDEA (or possibly a set of conflicting ideas) that you attempt to apply to EVERY corner.
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Hmmm...thank you for spelling that out. I had a hunch that was where you were going and I'm glad that you went there. I will remember that next outing to try to walk the track in the wee hours.
Any thoughts on getting the bike over on the sidewall for every corner?
My thought is this: getting the bike to its absolute max lean angle for every corner would be a good strategy for maximizing your chances of getting a rad photo when you don't know which corner the photographer is going to be in.
Generally I'd consider lean angle to be a means to and end so I would work backwards - first question, what are you trying to accomplish in a particular corner, then what lean angle would be necessary to achieve that? I don't personally see lean angle as goal, in and of itself; rather like braking, it is nice to have the skillset to maximize it when needed, but there are only some places/situations where absolute maximum possible braking force is needed.
This is a good question for the group. Can you think of any types of corners or situations where it would NOT be productive to take the bike all the way to it's maximum possible lean angle? What advantages could be potentially be gained by using less lean angle?
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Thanks. And yes...Brainard is my local track. I've done probably 15 track days there.
One of my big geekiest thrills was talking to Colin Edwards years ago at Indy. He asked where I was from, then proceeded to tell me his fond memories of racing there.
One question for the instuctors. Just your first thought:
What do you feel are some of the tracks that you seem to have the most successes with instructing at?
Which ones do you seem to have the best results at?
Cobie or Dylan would have the best data on this question, but Streets of Willow in Lancaster, CA is a terrific track for training - it is a great technical track for learning, has a good skidpad area for the off-track training bikes, rain there is very rare, and the track is more flexible on operating hours than some of the other tracks we use (no mandatory lunch hour, for example). Streets of Willow also has easy access on and off the track for coaches with various cutoffs and "turnouts" that allow us to get to students more quickly and/or stop them for a quick instruction without losing track time, so we have more overall time (one and off the track) with students. Also Keith had input on the design of the track and built in a really fantastic banked turn there that is a blast to ride.
Other tracks have other advantages, of course - Barber is gorgeous and has a wonderful flow to the track, and Vegas is easy to get to and has some fun fast straights, etc., but Streets is really great from a training standpoint.
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What does all this mean? Spend less time comparing numbers and spend more time enjoying your bike. That's really the only thing that means anything.
Hee hee, I like this.
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One of the purposes of the Change Lines drill is to pick a corner and really discover the shape/character of that corner. Riding through it on various lines at a pace where you can really observe it can reveal the real shape of the corner (does it tighten up? it is visually deceiving on the entrance?) and the camber, which can change from the beginning to end of the corner or from inside to outside, and if we always ride the corner on roughly the same line (especially when trying to 'go fast') we might not have the opportunity to gain that sort of information.
If you had the chance to REALLY look at the shape of the corner, would that allow you to choose an apex that would give you your desired exit line? And once you have that apex, could you work backwards to a good turn point? If the corner is somewhat blind, would a Change Lines exercise give you the opportunity to pick up reference points that would give you certainty on where you want to be at the beginning of the corner, even if you can't see the exit (or even the apex) of the corner?
If you have the chance to walk the track sometime, maybe before or after the start of a track day, that can REALLY be enlightening, especially when it comes to camber changes.
While we're talking about it, anyone remember some of the other benefits that can be gained from the Change Lines drill?
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Good responses, folks. When riding closely behind a student, there are lots of things the coach can see, I won't attempt to try to list anywhere near all of them (and riders are endlessly creative so sometimes something totally new pops out at you when following someone), but here are a couple of very common ones you can see, that could cause a bike to run wide and could SEEM to the rider like a suspension problem causing the bike to not hold its line:
1) Rider is tense and/or stiff-arming the bars - you can see this in the how the rider's body reacts over bumps (bouncing stiffly versus visibly relaxed and going with the motion) and sometimes in their general position (braced elbow, for example), but you can also see it in how the bike handles. Tension on the bars can affect how the bike reacts under braking, how it turns in, and what happens to the line throughout the whole corner.
2) Throttle control - a rider could be applying the throttle too early - before he/she is finished steering, before the bike is on the desired line, or too MUCH, rolling on too much too soon and driving the bike wide.
There is a lot more detail that could be discussed in each of these areas as to the exact cause, exact effect on the bike, and exact solution, but to get back to your original question: coaches can see a LOT when leading and following a student, so bike handling and setup is something that we would discuss if there were no obvious rider errors occurring and the student was running noticeably wider than the coach on corner exits even when taking the same line and using similar throttle control, AND if both coach and rider are confident that there is no unwanted bar pressure. Fortunately at CSS we have an excellent mechanic (often two) on site and we can take the bike right over to have him take a look at the setup, checking suspension, tires, and forks, etc., and can often address the problem right there on the spot. The mechanics are well versed in suspension setup and can check the setup on any type of bike.
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Thinking about T8 at NCBike as an example. It's a normal, generic, run of the mill left hander - and my nemesis. I always felt like I could go faster through there but the feeling always came after I'd already turned in. Did I forget to mention that from the exit of T7 the exit of T8 isn't visible? You can't see it until you're within about 2 seconds from the T8 Turn point, and THEN it becomes a standard outside-inside-outside flat turn.
Every time I went through there, I think I unfortunately changed something until day2 was nearly done and I had the line figured out and then it became more like a bend than a corner. Eureka!
Now I'm thinking 'what can I standardize'? I've got speed, lean angle (and rate of speed of change of lean angle), braking point, turn point, apex...you know the list to choose from.
Is it practical to turn every corner into a max lean endeavor and thereby getting one step closer to finding the right combo of other variables until getting that corner right?
Do you recall the Change Lines drill from Level 2?
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Cobie,,,,The avatar looks great. I was in Vegas( Nov 9th and 10th ) during the great weather to finish off the year, and had an absolute great time. I learned a lot from everyone, including my track coaches Josh and Laura. I'm still shocked by my progression thanks to you and the school. I can't wait to return in 2017 to learn even more.
Thanks
Bob Hyde
Bob! Welcome to the forum. I didn't get to see you ride on the first day but by golly you were getting around GREAT on the second day, especially in the second half of the day, very quick pace and really good technique, you were a very good student.
What are you going to do moving forward, are you going to buy a sport bike and go race it?
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Welcome! What a great list of bikes. Look forward to seeing you at Laguna Seca!!
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Thinking....but feel free to toss a underhand slow-pitch hint my way. It's late in the day.
How would the rider look different over the bump if he/she was relaxed and going with the bike versus tense, braced, or fighting it?
What effect would tense or braced arms have on the line the bike holds, and why?
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Base Layers For 1-Piece Suits
in School Questions/General Discussion
Posted
Probably I should have said "the material is more tightly woven" and less see-through. It doesn't look like mesh but I imagine if you look closely enough it is - but that is probably technically true of any woven fabric.