Hotfoot

When I read this comment above, I realized I did that too. Early in my riding I was worried a lot about front end traction. Quick turn helped me with that - I used less lean, I had less time to worry about front end traction, it reduced the necessity or temptation of dragging the brake way into the turn, kept me from overloading the front end with arm tension, and got to max lean much sooner so I was able to get the bike stood up sooner on the exits which helped rear traction too.

Barber is my favorite, too, you can make the whole trip more of a motorcycling experience by going there and taking in the museum, too, it is AMAZING. The track is gorgeous, it's a great facility and the nearby food and lodging is pretty good, too, for a racetrack. VIR is beautiful, too, and has a nice long straightaway but it's pretty far from an airport. Miller could be a good choice - not too difficult to travel too and it might be cooler than some of the other tracks mentioned. Streets of Willow has good availability, it almost never rains there, and that track is one of the best for coaching (more flexibility on time and more ways for a coach to catch up to a student due to many track cutoffs, etc.) and it is a good technical track for learning... but it isn't the most scenic place, it's a little far from an airport, there is not a good nearby hotel (20-30 minutes away at best) and the classroom facility is pretty basic. A starting point to narrow down the choices might be to call the office first and found out which dates and tracks still have availability, then go from there. If there's any chance you can pull it off, a 2-day camp is a GREAT way to go, especially for you since you are already racing. Some less experienced riders actually get more ride time than they really want in a two day camp but for you I think it would be fantastic and something you really should consider; that would open up the choice of Vegas, which is an easy one for travel and a nice track for the BMW since it gives you a little more room to open it up (compared to Streets of Willow). Plus with a 2-day camp your coach can spend more time with you both on and off the track.

On a cold day on the first session out (when not using warmers) I notice the tires themselves feel stiff and respond differently than normal; on the Dunlop slicks they tend to be a little resistant to turning and seem to want to stand the bike back up out of a lean, I think they are just stiff with cold so the contact patch doesn't flatten to the pavement like normal. That is the most obvious indicator to me that the tire is definitely cold and I need to be cautious. Beyond that, I just try to use very good technique (good throttle control, good body position, loose on the bars, etc.) and gradually increase my lean angle, and braking and acceleration. That way, as Robert says below, you feel SMALL wiggles or slips that warn you, he says it well: If worry about traction is a distraction for you, sometimes you can get more comfortable with it by intentionally riding in some low-traction situations (safely and carefully) to get more familiar with slides and warning signs. A little dirt bike in mud or loose dirt a good way to practice, for example; it's not exactly the same but some of the ideas translate, like feeling and recovering from little front end slips, or feeling the back end squirm when you are on the edge of traction. Riding minis on a go kart track is great too - they handle more like a sport bike but you aren't going so fast so it's less intimidating. There is also the Slide bike at the school, there are some qualifications to ride it but the purpose of it is to experience losing rear wheel traction and learn how to recover without a highside.

It was happening at the end of the back straight coming down from 160-170 mph for turn12. I'm pretty certain I actually felt it a time or two. I have a zip tie around the tube and it kept getting pushed all the way down. On any other track, I've never had it do that. As far as the settings go, if I recall correctly, we tightened it all the way down and then backed it out from 8 clicks to I believe 12 clicks. I may be off a few. I would say somewhere in the middle if I had to guess. I am running an Ohlins fork with a 30mm cartridge. OK this helps, thanks for the info. When you are braking, are you low on the bike with your forearms parallel to the ground? Are you able to keep most of your weight off the bars? When braking really hard on a high HP bike like that, it is very difficult to keep ALL the pressure off the bars, but do the best you can. If you sit upright with stiff arms (I know you aren't doing that at 160 mph, I'm just making a point here) and allow your upper body weight to come down on the bars, you add a lot of extra load on the front suspension. So, anything you can do to minimize pressure on the bars helps - good lock-on with lower body, grip hard with knees, use your core muscles to support your upper body, keep your forearms parallel to the ground, and for sure add StompGrip if you don't have it. It also may help slightly to get as far back in the seat as you can in your tuck. What is your braking technique? Describe as best you can how you come on the brakes and how you come off them - do you brake progressively harder and harder all the way to the turn point, or do you come on the brakes really hard then taper off, do you carry the brakes past the turn point to the apex, etc. Is there a bump, a downhill section, or any other track issue at the point you think you are bottoming out? Example at Auto Club Speedway there is a bump at the bottom of a downhill section at the end of a braking zone. You either have to set your suspension crazy stiff to handle that ONE spot on the track, or you manage it with technique by getting off the brakes and (in that particular case) back on the gas right before the bump to unload the front end and handle it that way. In other words, if the bike feels good everywhere else, you might be better off to manage it by braking more gradually in that spot, or letting off the brakes a bit, or moving your braking zone so you are not hard on the brakes at that point, instead of changing around your suspension. You mentioned it started happening as you got faster... how much faster, and over how long a period? If you got your bike set up a few years ago and were riding in C group and now you are in A group, for example, it is not only reasonable but LIKELY that you need to update your spring rates and valving to match your new pace. A good local suspension guru can usually take your weight, laptime at the local track, and a brief description of your riding style (do you trail brake heavily, are you gentle with the controls or more abrupt, etc.) and make recommendations for spring rate and valving. I assumed from your description of what has been done to the forks that they have been recently serviced... but if not, that would be step one. It's been recommended to me to service the suspension at least once a year, when racing; if I am putting more than about 6 big-track fast-pace weekends on a bike in a season, I service the suspension in the off season. Less than that on any one bike and I might skip it for that bike that year.

Do you know where/when it was bottoming out? Did you feel it bottom out under braking? Are there any track day photos you can look at? Where are you in your compression settings in the front? Somewhere in the middle or already as stiff as possible?

Have you tried closing your eyes and screaming? I don't think I'd be very relaxed if I thought I was riding through a bee swarm - I'd be worried way too much about one getting in under my collar or helmet and stinging me! Good thing you didn't know they were bees until you pitted in! Doesn't sound like it distracted you too much, slowing down a little when things are out of the ordinary is usually a wise thing to do, unless you're in a position where maintaining your pace is a necessity (like in a race) and as long as it isn't so abrupt or dramatic that it could be a hazard for riders behind you. However if you had NOT slowed down but been distracted going into a turn... that could have bigger consequences, like overshooting the corner and running off! I can handle most on track distractions pretty well, I just hate it when stuff hits me. Like when a rock flies up and hits my hand (ouch), or when someone tags a cone in front of me and flips it up in the air. And I can't help but duck when flying through a flock of birds (pun intended).

THIS IS SUCH A COOL TOPIC, I can't believe there is no discussion going on - no one has any opinions on this stuff? Anyone ever made any decisions about how much to hang off? What data or experiences did you use to decide? Do you hang off the same amount in every corner, or vary it by corner or your particular pace on that lap? Speak up, this is a great topic to kick around!

I'll soon be ordering my third Z Custom suit, they do great work and nothing's better than a custom suit.

Any other forum members want to jump in on this discussion? What advantages do you see for hanging off more, or less, in the situation shown? What could the rider that is hanging off LESS gain if he were to hang off MORE? What are some possible negative effects of hanging off more?

Your avatar is very appropriate to your question! Short-shifting (meaning shifting up a gear a bit early, before the bike is fully in the power band) is a common and very workable solution to this problem. A bit of rear brake pressure would work also but requires more attention since you have to monitor how much brake pressure and for how long; if you just short-shift, especially with a quick-shifter, you can just pick a reference point where you want to shift and tap the shifter - which will likely require less judgment and concentration than using the brake. Also I think that shifting would be easier to manage in any adrenaline-charged situation - like racing - where you might be prone to accidentally stomp on the rear brake with too much enthusiasm due to the pressure and excitement of the moment. FWIW I've done some data-logger comparisons of short-shifting versus not on the S1000rr and it has a lot less of an effect on overall acceleration than I expected - I started doing it more often after examining the data. Have you tried either or both solutions to see which works better for you? If you aren't already doing so, getting your upper body as low and forward as possible helps reduce wheelies, as does being loose on the bars. If you are sliding back in the seat consider a back stop on your seat. What kind of bike are you riding? Any on-board traction control or wheelie management?

FWIW, my husband bought the BMW lever guard for his S1000rr. He had the same concern, but his logic was that BMW designed the lever guard FOR that bike FOR racing, and therefore (being BMW) they presumably engineered and tested it for that purpose. Ergo, either it is the right weight that it won't cause any problem OR the difference doesn't matter, since there was no recommendation to change the other bar end. I don't know if that logic is correct but it sounded good and it made him feel better. It's on my list to get one, I think it's a good idea to have one, especially for racing.

OK, first let me just say, that is a REALLY COOL idea and great job with the overlay, it's terrific!! And you pose a great question, too. There are many factors that come into play here - the two of you are on different bikes, for one thing, so the ergonomics of each bike (and probably the weight) are different. What are some possible disadvantages of trying to hang off that much on your own bike? Why is the weight of the bike potentially a factor when making this comparison? From the appearance of this photo, you are not running out of lean angle or ground clearance. Assuming good traction conditions, good suspension and tires, and good throttle control, I wouldn't think an SV650 would be running out of traction on the rear wheel at the shown lean angle. So what COULD be a benefit of using a more aggressive body position, in this case and in this corner? What about in other corners? What about if traction was NOT very good, or your tires were getting worn out?

This is written up well in other places, so if you don't mind, I'm just going to send you to some complete descriptions so you can see the differences for yourself, as there are many: Description of 2 day camp: http://www.superbikeschool.com/curriculum/two-day-camps.php Info on CodeRace: http://www.coderace.com/ If this does not fully answer it for you , or you have follow-up questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Great photo! Thanks for posting that up.

I have been very happy with AlpineStars that I've used for coaching and racing. Admittedly, being female with small hands, the choices of gloves available to fit me is limited, but I have used some other brands and been happiest with the AlpineStars. I am also happy to support them because they are one of the few manufacturers to make full-protection road racing gloves for women. Mine have lasted for YEARS. I crash tested one pair and they held up beautifully, not so much as a scratch or bruise on my hands, and I still wear that pair. I have also heard that Held gloves are extremely well-made and comfortable; I'd be tempted to try them but can never find them for sale anywhere where I can try them on, and I just don't want to order gloves online without trying them first; being comfortable and being able to move my hands properly is important so I really want them to fit. If they are even a little bit too big they fold under my palm on the throttle hand and create blisters, that's the biggest problem I had with brands other than the AlpineStars. I think the AlpineStars sell a lot more gloves by making them available to try on in so many more retail shops.

That's fantastic, I love to see father-son students come to school together. 30 year CSS anniversary, that is so cool! Where did you do your 1986 school?

For a 2-day camp, there are two groups of students - while one group is on track, the other is in the classroom, and it rotates back and forth like that all day. Each coach has only two students in each group. Coaches do not select students, they are assigned prior to the school by CSS staff; and if there are special requests those are taken into consideration and accommodated wherever possible. Every coach is trained to coach every level, and often coach a mix of levels on any given day. First time students are asked to fill out a survey about their riding experience and that can be helpful with the assignment process. Repeat students sometimes request a particular coach and those requests are honored whenever possible. Are you thinking of doing a 2 day camp? They are really fun, lots of ride time and personal attention.

OMG isn't that infuriating? And of course you don't know if it will come back so you just keep waiting, or checking back in, and there really isn't any other place to look for info, except maybe at live timing for laptimes and position, but THAT'S a far cry from watching the action... ugh.

I'm sure you will find it MUCH MUCH easier to find the 190/55 than the 50s. The school has great prices on Q3s for students. I am REALLY impressed with the Q3s, I love the handling and the grip is tremendous and they seem to last a long time. I'd almost always choose the Q3 over anything else - including racing slicks - for anything short of all-out sprint races.

Yeah, right there with you on that. I'm sure they are trying; I really hope they get something put together soon! Were you able to successfully watch races on the fanschoice website? I tried watching some streaming video of Joe Roberts' races last year but found it difficult to locate the schedule and when there were delays it got really confusing because there were no updates to tell you what was happening. I'd really like to find a good way to know the MotoAmerica broadcasting schedule and links for where & when to watch.

Johnno down under - I'm wondering where you saw or read about the hip flick technique? I'd like to take a look at it and see if it comes across unclear on the point of staying on the seat, but not being firmly planted on it when you are trying to move; maybe the info could be made more clear.

You mentioned trail braking "eating up the front tire." Certainly that can happen; is that something you are running into?

Anybody going to the 2016 BMW RRFest in Fontana at Auto Club Speedway on April 24th? I've gone the last few years and it has been fun.

OK, help me out here. It seems to have gotten a lot more difficult to watch racing, especially MotoAmerica. How are you doing it? Are you streaming it from somewhere, and if so, is it working well? Post up links and instructions, please, if you can! Or, do you have cable/satellite channels that are showing MotoGP and other events? Which networks and what cable/satellite provider? Did you have to get a special package to get the right channel(s)?

Whew! That is a lot of questions and might be more info than can easily be communicated here, but I'll take a shot at it and maybe you can ask follow up questions as needed. Trail braking (as you describe it above, meaning carrying some braking through your turn-in and towards the apex) does have the effects you describe above and is most appropriately used when carrying speed INTO the turn is more important than maximizing speed on the EXIT, such as: a wide-entry and/or decreasing radius corner at the end of a fast straight, OR a situation where you want a pass another rider on the entry, or you want to enter a turn on the inside to "close the door" to prevent another rider from passing YOU on entry. Conversely, what you describe as "finish braking on straight" is very useful where EXIT speed is most important, such as the last turn before coming onto a straight, or possibly in a qualifying situation where you want to achieve a best-possible laptime by getting on the gas as quickly as possible in every turn; generally it is easier to 'make up time' on the throttle with more acceleration than it is to try to lower laptimes via harder and later braking. Plus it is a much safer approach, since it can be relatively easy to crash when trying to trail brake up to the limits of traction; for one thing, it fires off a lot of SRs that can result in errors that can lead to a crash (tightening up on the bars, using a little too much brake pressure, etc.) These are, of course, broad generalizations; there are many variations in corner situations (shape of turn, what turns are connected before and after, banking, available traction, etc.), and rider skillset, and quality of equipment (tires, suspension, etc.) that can affect a rider's decisions on what technique to use. As far as what the school teaches, the "finish braking on the straight" technique you describe would be taught so that ideally, you are tapering off the brake right as you are turning in the bike, so that the front forks stay partially compressed as cornering forces take over for braking forces. That avoids the situation where the brakes are released, allowing the forks to extend, then the bike is turned, compressing them again. We want to time the brake release to 'keep the front down' as the cornering forces come into play. The steering rule from Twist II is "Steer as quickly as possible in every turn" and directly underneath there is a description of what is meant by "as quickly as possible" and how that is tailored to the turn. Reference Chapter 16 "Steering" for more info. On a modern sport bike with properly set up suspension in normal working condition and good tires it is unlikely that a rider would turn the bike so hard that it would flex the forks enough to create a see-saw effect, or bottom out the suspension - but Keith does mention in Twist II that it would not be desirable to attempt a quick turn over the top of a big bump, as that could overload the suspension and cause a loss of traction. However, on a very old, heavy bike or one not made for spirited cornering, flexing the forks or even the chassis can happen and it can be an unnerving sensation. Sliding the front tire in a quick-turn could be possible in low traction conditions like ice, wet pavement, or gravel, if the bike is leaned over too far for the conditions. (I can't think why the wheel would actually LOCK unless you were on the brakes, though.) An aggressive quick turn would not be appropriate in low traction conditions or on a bike with bad tires or suspension problems. Does that help?