Hotfoot

Are you, by any chance, riding on dual compound tires now, that have a different compound at the edges versus in the middle? Lots of tires are that way now, and it could make sense that you are feeling the grip change at different lean angles, which would not have been a factor years ago. Also, on one particular dual compound tire that I used to use, there was a very soft aggressive compound at the edges, that was super grippy, but wore out quickly and got very slick once they were worn out. On those when I leaned the bike over and transitioned from the harder compound to the softer once, the tire would abruptly begin sliding. The tires were great until they wore out but I didn't like the unpredictability once they did start to go off, so I stopped using them.

This has been covered pretty well in other threads, you might try searching "clutchless downshifting". Basically you want to blip the throttle to match RPMs and if you can go to clutchless downshifts, most riders find they can do them a lot faster than using the clutch. Once you get used to it, it's very fast and not having to mess with the clutch lever means one less thing to coordinate.

There are so many variables in this, like the type of bike you ride, the characteristics of the power band, what sort of bikes you are racing against, etc., that there's probably no pat answer - you'd just have to use your judgement and/or an electronic timer to decide which ends up faster. A very big issue, though, would be your own comfort level with shifting - how long does it take you, how reliably can you get the downshifts, how certain are you about which gear you ARE in and which gear you WANT to be in, are you comfortable with being leaned over and downshifting, does being on the brakes affect your downshift, etc.. If there is any hesitation at all on shifting, or if it is consuming attention you need for other things like judging entry speed, you might be better off NOT shifting to get that extra horsepower.. As as personal example, I am faced with this decision on one track where I race - I run out of 3rd gear in a short chute between a turn and a chicane. I can either go a little softer on my drive and stay in third, or pick up 4th but then almost immediately downshift going into a quick chicane. In that spot, I was feeling very rushed and sometimes missing the downshift (I use all clutchless downshifting and was not blipping the throttle consistently due to hard braking) so I decided I was better off just staying in third. That is, UNTIL a coach from the school showed me a better way to get the downshift. Once the uncertainty and rushed feeling of the downshift was gone, it became absolutely worth it to go up to 4th even though there wasn't much room. It made a difference in my laptime, and an even bigger difference in my race results because it is a great place to pass if you can get enough of a drive. There is a braking/downshifting drill you can do off-track at the school. It can REALLY reduce the time and attention spent on shifting. You might try watching a video of Will (check the school website for the on board videos showing the tracks) and compare the time spent on a downshift to what you see in most riders' on board video, and you can see how much time it takes some riders to shift compared to pro racers.

I agree with the points made above; mainly that the peak power is around 13,500 rpm and you can feel the engine start to "fall off" somewhat after that, so it makes a lot of sense to keep the bike in the 10k - 13k range, because you get terrific power in that range. Some bikes (not the BMW) "nose over" sharply once you exceed peak power - I have a little 50cc two stroke that has a very narrow power band and drops off dramatically past a certain rpm. Speaking specifically about Level 1 at the school, most riders are on the BMW for the first time, and often whatever they ride at home does not rev as high, have as much power, or go as fast in each gear as the 1000cc BMW. So, if they shift by the sound of the engine, they may shift early because it sounds over revved to them, or if they do it by sense of speed they might think that if they are going 70 mph they should be in 5th not 3rd! Also the BMW has incredible acceleration, so sometimes by the time it hits around 9,000rpm it is pulling hard enought that the rider either assumes that IS peak power or gets intimidated and doesn't want to go any higher. Also... the shift light is set pretty low on the school bikes, I think it comes on around 9-10,000 rpm. That is adjustable but the factory setting is somewhat low, presumably to reduce the wear and tear on the engine. On my MD250, I sometimes short shift intentionally (on race starts, for example) to make SURE I don't hit the rev limiter, because on that bike if you hit the limiter you lose a TON of momentum. It is much better to shift a little too early than to hit that limiter.

I ride a stationary bike, the kind with the arms that move, that works both arms and legs. I do squats, lunges and calf raises for leg strength, pushups for arms and shoulders, and crunches and situps for ab strength. But I still find some other muscles that get sore if I haven't been on track for a while - mostly my neck, from the low riding position and the weight of the helmet, and a small muscle on the side of my calf that I apparently use when I hang off!

Above, I mentioned a older post I remembered about when to switch to race tires - I went back and found it, here is the link to the thread: http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=3046 And here is what he said in it (it was tire guy, Dunlop_RTS): "No need to change. You wont get 10 seconds faster lap time by changing to slicks. Better to keep the Q2 and spend some time on the track. When you start to push the Q2 to the limit, or are within 5-10 sec of the track record, then change to race tires." I also found another thread with a lot of good info (also from him) classifying types of tires and when to use them: http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=2538 Hopefully this helps. Another thought I had, was to get with your local trackday tire provider and talk about this - some guys can look at the wear on your current tires and have an idea of whether you need something more aggressive, and he/she might have some race tire take-offs available for a low price that you can use to try out some various tires without spending $500+ per set. They might also have warmers you can rent or borrow for a day when you test out some tires. Also, if you haven't had a suspension person check your setup, you definitely want to do that. Sometimes a $40 suspension adjustment can fix a problem with tire sliding more effectively than more expensive tires. I'm not trying to downplay the importance ofhaving great tires, it's just that in my opinion the current trackday tires have amazing performance and you have to be riding really hard to exceed their actual limits. I think a lot of riders move up to a race tire long before it's entirely necessary, which adds an enormous extra expense to "for-fun" trackdays.

Q2s are pretty darn amazing, I've raced on them. I think there is a thread somewhere on the forum that suggested that if you are within ten seconds of the expert race pace for your bike class you should be on slicks. Personally I always prefer Q2s for track days, they cost SO much less and I don't like messing with tire warmers.

I don't think that using the idea of "approaching the limits of your tires" is going to be a good measure of skill improvement. For one thing, better riding technique will greatly improve the way you USE your tires (better balance of loading front/rear, less abruptness in changes in load, better ability to feel tire feedback, etc.) and will improve the way your suspension works in keeping your tires in connection with the asphalt. So hypothetically as your skills improve, you will be able to optimize the tires better and therefore slide LESS. But of course you will probably also go faster which will load the tires more. So, it's hard to measure by that. Also there are tons of variables with tires and grip on any given day - tire pressure, tire temperature, ambient temp, tire compound, road surface, suspension setup, etc., and many of those things change day to day or even lap to lap. There seem to be too many variables to set a standard to use as a measure of improvement. Additionally, you could possibly move up to a more race-oriented tire (that is expected to have more grip), but end up sliding it MORE, if it does not suit your riding style. The first set of race tires I ever tried scared me half to death - I wasn't using warmers and I couldn't get them warmed up, so they felt stiff and VERY slippery, I rode slower but slid around a LOT, it felt awful. I hated them and went back to a street/race type tire. About a year later, when I had my suspension set up better, was riding a lot faster, and was using warmers AND it was warmer outside, those same race tires felt great and had tons of grip; the first time I tried them, I just wasn't ready for them so they didn't suit my riding style or the conditions but later on they were GREAT. Laptimes seem to be the most reliable way of seeing skill improvements - if you can run a faster laptime and feel MORE comfortable and in control while doing it, THAT is a big win. Or you can compare how your riding changes in relation to other riders - i.e., passing people who used to pass you, or moving up to a faster group at your trackdays.

Ten track days on one set of tires sounds like a lot. I don't have any experience with Pirellis but I don't usually like to do more than about 4-5 full track days on a set of tires, it just seems like they start to get slippery. It would be interesting to ask the Pirelli rep at your track days to see how many days and/or heat cycles he or she thinks you can get and still be within the top performance of the tire.

You will probably want to be in the same riding group so that your track time and classroom time coincide, but whether you request to share the same coach is up to you. As a coach, I'll say that sometimes we see one spouse try to "help" the other with additional coaching, which becomes a distraction and can introduce confusion, etc. That would be the main thing to avoid. From a student perspective (because I took some schools with my husband) I found it to be fun because we could hear each other's interaction with the coach, but also slightly distracting as I was paying a little bit of attention to his riding, in addition to my own. (I can tell you that if my husband had tried to critique my riding that would have upset me.) Anyway, we have done both, shared a coach or had different coaches, and we ultimately ended up with no preference one way or the other, it was fun either way.

Highly recommend that you replace them. The school offers a good price on Dunlops for students, I'm pretty sure once you enroll for the school you can get that discount, and they can ship you the tires or you may be able to arrange to have Will mount them for you on he morning of your school day. Obviously you want good-handling tires and if you have any concerns at all it can be a distraction. Best to just change them.

Great post; it's wonderful that you've gotten such terrific results, and of course we love to hear that the forum is active and useful and appreciated. . Thanks for posting this up.

I'm not sure if that is a fact, it is just what I personally experienced on my own bike. It makes logical sense to me that adding more braking-while-leaned-over would increase wear on the sides of your front tire. Doing most braking while upright might increase wear on the middle, but wearing out the middle has never been a problem for me - but maybe a commuter rider would feel differently! I'd be interested to hear other opinions on this! Should we post up a question in the tire forum?

Welcome! Thanks for joining us, lots of nice people here and great info to be had, post up your questions. Glad to hear you are an enthusiast and we look forward to seeing you at a school!

Foam might be lighter, if you are trying to reduce weight, and you can buy foam that is thicker or thinner, or shape it however you want, and you can shop for foam that is more, or less, grippy. But I think the main consideration is the tail piece itself and how you want it to look. I think with some race fairings the "race tail" that used the foam seat was more suitable for putting on race numbers, and may also have been easier to put on and take off. On my bike I bought a thicker foam seat and sanded it down in the middle so it was a little higher at the front, in an attempt to keep me from sliding forward so much. That helped a little, but not as much as I had hoped. Someone also told me that if you rough up the foam occasionally with sandpaper it helps keep it more grippy, that with wear it gets a little polished and more slippery.

Looks like WERA allows it- C-class bike requirements for WERA, from current rulebook: C SUPERSTOCK EXPERT & NOVICE and C SUPERBIKE EXPERT & NOVICE Up to 650cc 4-stroke multis Up to 675cc 4-stroke triples Up to 1200cc 4-stroke air-cooled twins Up to 850cc 4-stroke water-cooled twins Up to 550cc 2-stroke multis Unlimited singles Vintage 5 machines *Aprilia Tuono, KTM SuperDuke, Honda VTR1000F and Suzuki SV1000 are allowed in C Superstock and Superbike

For those who may be interested, here is a nice article on basics of how front forks work - it talks about progressive springs and different types of damping (high/low speed, shim stacks, etc.): http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tech/fork_suspension_technology/index.html And a very interesting read from some people who were toying around with suspension on a cruiser, with some data collection. It's a lot different from a sport bike but does cover some cool info: http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tech/improve_ride_suspension_performance/index.html

With trail braking, you can typically get on the brakes later allowing you to carry more speed deeper into the turn, but can't get on them as hard so the braking distance is increased. The turn rate is slower because the front tire is loaded and can't handle as quick a turn. Resulting in more time at lean angle or needing a greater lean angle. Can't get back on the gas till the apex vs as soon as the turning action is complete. The bike is less stable in a turn with the balance forward than when it is 60/40 to the rear. Bumps in the early part of a turn can get very scary when going over them leaned over and on the brakes with so much weight on the front tire; quick turn and get back on the gas makes it handle over rough spots (turn 10 at Streets is a good example). Some turns are so short to the apex getting back on the gas is not practical (first part of Turn 7 chicane at Fontana is a possible example) Trail braking is good for: Passing going INTO a turn - great for passing a slower rider but a faster rider can pass you back on the exit. Passing going in, on the brakes, makes you slower mid-turn and/or makes you run wide so you are vulnerable to be passed right back. Significant danger of "overcooking" the turn and running wide or losing the front. Short turns with slow exits, especially if there is a fast straight before the turn (fast in slow out) Good for light braking in high speed turns Decreasing radius turns, where your "real" turn point is very late in the turn - use trail braking to keep slowing down through the first apex to the "real" turn point, then quick turn and drive out. Quick turn is good for: Turns that don't require any braking Turns with fast exits Turns before a straight Chicanes Fastest possible overall pace through ANY turn except decreasing radius turns Conclusion: Trail braking is most useful for passing a slower rider on turn entry, or for decreasing radius turns that have a fast entry, or any turn (or any situation) where ENTRY speed is more important than EXIT speed. Great post, well thought-out and informative! Thanks for taking the time to write this. I suppose "thinking it through" like this may have contributed to RogerThat's two WERA championships last year...

Mugget, I'm with you on most of what you said above! I don't particularly enjoy trail-braking, it takes a lot of my attention because it is a little dicey; and if your front tire starts to get worn and a little slick it gets REALLY tricky to keep it upright, and habitual trail braking will wear that front tire out a lot faster. (I tried it for a while, set up my bike to handle better with trail braking, and I was trail braking in lots of places - but ultimately went back to setting it up for super-fast quick turns and now I rely much more on THAT skill.) I much prefer doing most of my braking while upright, and I only trail brake in a few turns at certain tracks, much like you described above - it just makes sense, in certain places. As a specific example, I was discussing this with my husband (who also races) and something interested came up. At Streets of Willow there is a long banked turn, Turn 8. I mentioned to him that I trail brake into Turn 8 when we run it backwards, because it is a decreasing radius turn in that direction. But he was surprised to hear that I DON'T trail brake into it going the other (normal, CW) direction. Discussing it more, it turns out that he drives hard (but very briefly) between Turn 7 and Turn 8, and then trail brakes into 8. In contrast, I don't drive as hard, and use little or no brakes into 8, and quick turn it. The result? He can pass me BETWEEN 7 and 8, get on my inside and trail brake, but I can enter turn 8 on his outside with a MUCH higher entry speed and smoke him mid-turn. It's an interesting trade off - but there is a long straight after turn 8 so I think being able to pass in 8 is much more important than being able to pass in 7. The bad news? Now he knows my secret, I might have given up my advantage on that track. PS - you mentioned maybe using trail braking to pass slower riders on the inside, entering a turn - that certainly can be done but be aware that most track day providers aren't too keen on that (except in the Race group). It can be dangerous in that it can scare the slower rider, or the trail-braking rider can come in too hot and run wide, potentially running the slower rider off the track in the process. Or, worst, case, the trail-braking rider can lose the front, and slide across the track from the inside to the outside, crossing the path of the passed rider.

I don't recall seeing that in the Twist materials, but do remember seeing that tip on Simon Crafar's DVD... It's definitely in there somewhere, I'm just not sure whether it's book one or two. It's in a section where Keith is talking about the tyres having an effect on the gearing of the bike when cranked over. It's in A Twist of the Wrist II, in Chapter 4, in a section called "Fine Point". Too long to type here but VERY useful to read - it covers a lot of info about what gear/RPM range to be in, and why. Thanks, Steve, your comment reminded me exactly where to look for it.

If you can find a track map (look on the web - if the track has a website sometimes they post a map), that helps a lot. For one thing, it makes watching someone's on-board video a lot more useful since you can watch where they are on the map. The track map can help you get familiar with the turns, learn the turn numbers (very helpful if talking with another rider) and have an idea of which way the turns all go so you don't spend your first session trying to figure THAT out. One thing taht has helped me, is watching on-board video with a track map in front of me, making notes about elevation changes (hard to see those on a map) and noticing where the rider chose to turn in and where they apex. You can also watch for where they can drive hard, where they let off the gas, where they change gears (you have to listen for that), etc. It's nothing like riding it but it can make learning that track a lot quicker, and the first few laps less confusing.

Sorry if that last paragraph gave anyone the wrong idea... just to clarify, I do think it's important to have a strong quick turn ability. Very important! Those points that you mentioned Hotfoot especially show just how important and useful a strong quick turn ability is. OK, got it, good. This does bring up some interesting questions, though - when would you want to trail brake, and when wouldn't you? Let's get out of the world of pro racers on gazillion dollar bikes and talk about track day or club level racing on "normal" sportbikes. How do you decide, for each turn, whether to use trail braking, or not? It's a interesting discussion and I'd like to hear your opinions as you think it through. So... What are the advantages of trail braking to the apex vs getting most of your braking done when vertical? What types of turns or situations lend themselves more to trail braking, and what types of turns or situations favor releasing or being off the brakes at your turnpoint, to maximize your quickturn?

From Keith: "It was a complete success, being able to get everyone through to Level III was great but the best part was there were quite a few repeat students and we wound up with mostly Level IV's on the third day. That was perfect though, because the way it worked out Dylan and I rotated with some of the Level IV guys so they had some variety in that aspect of their programs. Getting the 3 days at Laguna wasn't a usual thing. 3 days straight is pretty rare to grab at that place so there is no guarantee we'll be able to do another one in '13. For sure we'd do another one at Laguna if we get the days offered to us."

Think back to one of the turns where you felt fast going in - at the moment that it felt fast, where were you looking, or what were you looking at?

Mugget said "if trail braking is a valid technique... why learn quick turn at all?" Is every turn a braking turn? Can you think of turns where you are NOT braking, or where you would not want to trail brake? How about surprises - what if a rider crashes in front of you, would you trail brake around him? Have you ever seen anyone turn in too early and get hung up on the brakes, too scared to let off? What skill could correct that?