Hotfoot

What problem are you trying to solve - do you want to get more comfortable with the higher entry speed, or more accurate with your braking? If you make an increase in entry speed, you can certainly trigger SRs! What exactly is your attention on, are you concerned about: Running wide? Running out of room getting the bike slowed before your turn point? Not being able to get the bike turned? Front wheel traction? Something else? Does it "feel too fast" when you enter the turn, but later in the turn feel like everything is fine and you could have gone faster, or does it feel ok on entry but fall part later in the turn? Answering some of these questions might help us sort out what is going on and how to handle it.

Wow! How bizarre! If there was nothing on the road surface and nothing wrong with the bike - do you suppose you hit an animal? Ground squirrel or something, that ran under your wheel and somehow survived enough to get out of the road?

Regarding a rider "coming under you", he will necessarily still be slowing down and taking a tighter line; you could get on the throttle much sooner, why wouldn't you just quick turn the bike and drive right up the inside? It sure seems to happen a lot on TV , especially in AMA and WSBK. Plus it's REALLY satisfying to do; my favorite moments EVER in races are the ones when someone passes me on turn entry and I pass 'em right back on the exit.

Sure, no problem, go for it! The Twist of the Wrist II DVD is a great way to do a quick and easy review of techniques if you want a refresher.

I agree, I want it to GO when I open the throttle. But, tuning (and gearing) can have a big impact on this. I've had a good mechanic take a couple of my bikes from crappy to snappy. My little 250 (carbureted engine), when, tuned properly, feels very crisp with an immediate response, and on my 600 a power commander made a WORLD of difference. Even my YSR50 will wheelie when shifting to second gear... but on that one, to get a quick start from a standstill requires significant rider participation, a la Fred Flinstone.

+1 on looking in the WERA classifieds. Before making a firm decision on 600cc vs 1000cc, I'd take a look at what's out there first - sometimes you can find a REALLY tricked out race bike on those forums, so you can get LOTS of extras at a fraction of the cost of adding them yourself. Race fairings, exhausts, upgraded suspension, power commander, rearsets, etc., and sometimes stands, warmers, spare parts, and other stuff is available too. I'd take a newer, fully tricked out 600cc bike over an older stock 1000cc in a heartbeat. And as others have said, a newer 600 with all the goodies can often get around quicker than an older or difficult to ride 1000cc bike. Plus with most organizations there are more race classes available for the 600s. Of course, once you have ridden the BMW S1000rr at the school, you're gonna want one of those. They are truly awesome, easy to ride, terrific handling, and phenomenal power.

Wow, those are some pretty amazing gains, great job on experimenting and observing the results and really seeing and using the benefits! Well done! Thanks for sharing, this was really cool to read.

I suggest you call the office and let them know, they might be able to accommodate a request to ride the same bike both days.

The answer is simple: they're faster everywhere What I've found is that watching an on-board video makes it look slower and more relaxed than if you're riding yourself. You go "hey, I could do that" - only you can't in real life. Hey! . . . Looking forward to seeing your CodeRace video - you'll post it up, right?

Maybe we also need to look at why those racers LOOK slower on TV, even though they aren't. Do you suppose they are less "busy" on the bike, so their motions are less rushed and it makes everything look calmer? Or maybe the regular trackday riders use more lean angle than they really need to (not making enough use of quickturn, or poor body position, or bad turnpoints) and that makes them APPEAR to be going faster than they really are? I know I've seen school/trackday photos of riders that are going the same speed but look radically different; if you didn't KNOW they were riding at the same pace you'd swear the one that was leaned way over, or hanging way off, was going a lot faster. But, in general, if you get a really good answer on WHERE the really, really fast guys make up the time, please let us know, I'm sure we'd ALL like to use that info!! :)

Something to consider is that the bike's geometry is affected, too - compressing or extending the forks or rear shock towards the ends of their travel can change the handling characteristics of the bike. Presumably (and this is an assumption on my part) the bike is initially set up so that the best handling DURING a corner is with the suspension in the middle, and the farther away from that you get the less compliant the bike will feel. Also there is the obvious fact that if the suspension is in the middle of its stroke you have the most available travel in both directions to absorb bumps in the road.

Good on ya for reading up on it! YES, one of the primary benefits of good throttle control is that it keeps your bike's suspension in the best range. Excellent observation. First sentence in Ch 5: "...good throttle control is responsible for good cornering control (i.e., suspension in best range, tires delivering optimum tracion, line predictable, etc.)..." Yes, you named some things that could tell you that your suspension is out of its best range: reduced rear tire traction, bike not holding a line - those are great ones! But there are more... If you look at the list of "Off-Gas Results", I see some other items that address bike handling, if you overweight the front end (front suspension out of ideal range, compressed too much): Bike overreacts to pavement irregularities Steering can get twitchy (steering angle steepens due to fork compression) Ground clearance is reduced These are things you can feel, that can give you info about your suspension - the bike feels twitchy or can feel like the front end gets chattery over bumps, or chopping the gas can compress both front and rear suspension and make you suddenly scrape a peg on the ground in a corner. What about under braking - if you overload the front so much that you bottom out the forks, what would you feel? Other folks out there, jump in! What specific things have you noticed that told you that you might be over- or under-loading your suspension, or possibly that your suspension is not set up correctly?

Wow, brakes are getting good! So, the braking time and distance are shorter. So that means they get ON the brakes later - but do you suppose it also means they RELEASE the brakes earlier? I'd like to see the actual brake pressure graphs to see how they are trailing off and where; even better if it showed lean angle and G force, too!! One of the coolest things for me about doing CodeRace was getting to see an actual measured chart of my braking, and how I was trailing off the brakes entering a turn.

I agree with you on this, hence my comment about "using grip to go as fast as possible around the track". I consider quick-turn to be turning as quickly as you can under ideal conditions. Whenever you cannot use all effort to turn but must hold back because you're braking or the road is slippery, you are no longer quick-turning. Instead, you are modulating. AH! Now this is getting very interesting. That is two riders that feel that "steer as quickly as possible in every turn" does NOT define "quick turn". I took that from Twist II, I feel that it does define it. But, I'm absolutely open to more data, so let's take a look - what other definitions of quick turn can you find? Let's limit the search to Keith's materials, though, since he is the originator of the technique.

Sorry for the lag - thanks for bumping the thread to get it back on top. (And hey, Bullet, you can jump in any time!! No worries on that!) OK, good job thinking this through. These answers are somewhat bike dependent - for example if your bike is a fire breathing dragon and hard to control in its powerband, you might intentionally enter a turn in a low RPM range, to keep you from being in the max power range while at full lean, to prevent you from spinning up the rear, or to help you be smooth on throttle application. On the other hand, if you ride a low HP bike, you migh have to be at a high RPM in your peak powerband just to get enough acceleration to stabilize the bike through the turn! Exactly right on your second point, if you are hitting the rev limiter mid-turn and it is making you hesitate on the gas or have to shift mid-turn, you would likely want to try entering the turn in a higher gear/lower RPM the next time to avoid that situation. If you are in too HIGH a gear, you can sometimes feel that the bike is not accelerating much... or you might just notice that other bikes are pulling away from you. Usually the ideal for racing would be to be have to MOST power available to you during your exit drive - at the point where you are standing the bike up and can do anything you want with the throttle. NOW - what about suspension compliance? What might the bike do, or what might you feel, that would let you know that you might NOT be in the ideal suspension range? (Hint - you may want to review Chapter 5 in Twist II for some help on this one.)

Devonshire Inn is closest, but I stayed there once some years ago and I wouldn't recommend it; it's very basic and the security is poor. The Inn of Lancaster is nice, and the Holiday Inn Express or Comfort Inn near Ave K in Lancaster are both great and have ample parking for trailers if anyone is hauling bikes. All three of those are about 20 min from the track.

I wonder if you are using too narrow a definition of quick turn. Take a look at Twist II: The rule is "Steer as quickly as possible in every turn." "... the as-quickly-as-possible is tailored to the turn..." I interpret that to mean if you are in a turn or racing situation that demands trail-braking (such as keeping an competitor from passing you on entry) you would have to turn at a rate that would not overload your front tire; you'd still turn as quickly as possible, but that steering rate would be necessarily slower than if you were completely off the brakes. Quick turn technique is used to overcome the rider SRs that can cause the rider to turn in way too early, putting them on a line that runs them wide, or fear of leaning the bike quickly, which causes a slow tentative turn-in that ALSO makes them run wide. It also allows the rider to use less lean angle and get on the throttle sooner, all big advantages in stabilizing the bike. I'll wager that the pro-racers are NOT allowing their SRs to control their turn rate; they are turning as quickly as possible for the situation. Regarding trail-braking, here is a quote from Keith from another thread, below is a snippet but it is WELL worth reading the whole thing: http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=3208 As we watch world competitors we see brake trailing but not everywhere and not all the time. In addition, the idea of trailing the brakes 'to the apex' has almost completely been abandoned in favor of earlier and earlier releasing of the front brake lever. Why? So they can get back to gas. One of the reasons James Toseland couldn't cut it in MotoGP was that he was taking advantage of the ultra high tech handling, brakes and tires and trailing the brakes in late. Later than everyone else. At Laguna Seca, for example, he was on the brakes 2 to 3 meters longer than Rossi, Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa. That put him in about 15th place, from my observations. Just a tiny bit of time, really just hundredths of a second per turn, was enough to do it. His drives off the turn were as good as anyone elses.

Right, the BMW shift assist is only for upshifts. It totally cool, too, I love it. As far as I know you can do clutchless downshifts on any bike. I use clutchless downshifts on all my bikes, including my old 1988 YSR50, my cruiser, and my dirtbikes. I've never had to replace a clutch, and never had any transmission issues. Will recommends NOT pre-loading the lever, sounds like that can be hard on components, and on the BMW it can confuse the sensors.

I'll have to go back and listen to exactly what he says in the video but I suspect there is a misunderstanding here - in the book (Twist II) on Page 7 in a section called "Light Touch" there is a description of how MUCH acceleration you need through a turn to get the optimum weight transfer (10-20% of the weight rearwards) to optimize traction. It is 0.1 to 0.2G, but that measurement might not be meaningful to everyone, so he specifically equates it to "the force generated by a smooth fifth-gear roll-on in the 4000 to 6000 rpm range on pretty much anything over 600cc". A fifth gear roll-on at 4000 rpm is not going to give you a very strong drive. This is NOT a recommendation to ride all your turns in 5th gear at 4000-6000rpm! It is just a way to illustrate how much acceleration is required to get the optimum weight transfer, the idea being that once you have an idea of how much acceleration you need for standard throttle control, you can control the rate of your roll-on as needed, in whatever gear you are in, to achieve that. So, if you are in second gear at 11,000 rpm, your roll-on would have to be much more gentle and careful than if you were in 4th gear at 5,000 rpm; it would be easy to overdo it or lurch the bike in the lower gear at high RPM. However, on the exit there would be a real advantage to being up in the power band, to maximize your drive. Assuming you are going for max overall speed, what factors can YOU think of that would help you decide what gear to use? At what point in the turn do you MOST need to be in the bike's powerband? How woud you know if you entered a turn at too HIGH an RPM? What would you feel on your exit drive if your RPM was too low? Regarding your second question: The Twist II book gives you a lot of things that will tell you when you are NOT in the most compliant suspension range - what indicators can you think of, that would let you know you are OUT of the most compliant suspension range?

WELCOME! You will love the S1000rr, it's a pleasure to ride - surprisingly mellow and easy to control. I was VERY surprised to find it easier and friendlier than my 600 was. On the other hand, when you are ready to REALLY get going it is a rocket!

I had good success at LOW RPM (maybe 30-40mph?) going from 4th to 3rd, acclerating a little in 4th then letting off the throttle and clicking the shift lever at the SAME INSTANT I let off the gas (no blip). At low RPM you are VERY unlikely to lock up your rear wheel, in fact in my experience if you are using clutchless downshifts is is VERY hard to lock up the rear ever because if there is that much load on the tranny it won't shift at all - personally I have never had the rear wheel ever lock up on a clutchless downshift. After you are comfortable getting the shift with just throttle-off action, then go to a little higher RPM, let off the gas and let the RPMs fall a little, then do a small blip and downshift. I think you'll be surprised how smooth and easy it is, once you get the feel of it. Once you get the timing figured out you can try it faster and at higher RPMs. If you blip too MUCH you can get a forward surge, too LITTLE or bad timing and it usually just won't change gears. If the timing is right the lever should click easily into gear - so DON'T put extra pressure on it to try to force it. It's easiest at higher gears and lower RPMs. It's by far the hardest to do in first gear, most riders I know that use clutchless downshifts WILL use the clutch to go down to first gear. Of course you would want to do this in a safe area (like a track or parking lot) since you will be thinking about your shifting instead of traffic! Keep in mind you can get coached on this at the school, it is available as an off-track drill.

Blipping the throttle is used to match the engine RPM from one gear to another. Due to the difference in gear ratios, when you shift from a higher gear to a lower gear, the engine RPMs have to be higher to maintain the rear wheel speed. Let's say you try to downshift (at a reasonably high RPM), using the clutch, WITHOUT doing a throttle blip -if you let the clutch out very quickly the engine speed in the new gear will not match the speed the rear wheel is traveling so you can get the rear tire chattering, chirping, or sliding as it is abruptly slowed down, and this also puts a heavy load on the tranmission, in the direction it is NOT designed to handle (slowing versus accelerating - you should use the BRAKES to slow the bike, not the transmission!). If you let the clutch out slowly the rear wheel will still slow down but not as quickly and you can eliminate the rear tire chatter; but it is still wear and tear on both clutch and transmission as they have to absorb the forces involved in matching engine RPMs to the new gear. Most street riders tend to do a very slow downshift, holding in the clutch a relatively long time, so that makes the problem worse, as they are off the throttle and the engine RPM drops EVEN MORE while they have the clutch held in and the throttle off. If you blip the throttle the correct amount to match the RPM you can smoothly downshift; so smoothly, in fact, that it will easily change gears without using the clutch at all, because you are taking the load off the transmission and it can click happily into the new gear. It is also easy to get a clutchless downshift if you accelerate, then let off the throttle and click the shift lever at the same time you let off (before the engine RPM drops and the bike starts slowing down) - that unloads the tranny and makes for an easy shift. Per your post above, if you blip the throttle too MUCH, you can make the bike jerk forward a bit. In my experience with my own bikes, for clutchless downshifts if you don't get the blip right, the bike simply won't downshift; but using a little bit of clutch (partially held in) and getting the blip wrong can result in grinding of gears. Here is an article from Keith (in this forum, under Articles) about braking and downshifting: http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=258 And here are some past threads about clutchless downshifting: http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=2115 http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=3097 http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=2522

Same time; I try to think of my foot being connected to my hand so I move them both together. Do you know WHY we need to blip the throttle to get a clutchless downshift? Anybody want to tackle that explanation, for the benefit of any readers that are unsure?

So - you're saying that if you decide to HIT a boulder with a sportbike, you ought to have a better plan for jumping it, and sticking the landing, is that about right? I'm grinning as I write this because I can totally picture you doing exactly that, and laughing about it afterwards! Seriously, though, the lesson in that for me, is "Don't give up!", because maybe you can still save it... even when it seems to be going badly... What does "whiskey throttled it" mean? Also when you say cross up and push the bike down - you're talking about when he's already in the dirt, right?

+1, I think this is the approach I'd try, too. Question- what are you gaining by going out to the left where you've marked your first turn point? I'm assuming that your prior turn ends you up on the right side of the track, so you have to cross to the left - what is the advantage of that left entrance, versus a mid-track entrance - do you get better visibility, or better pavement, or a more favorable camber, etc.? (I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just asking you for your reasons.) Also, what sort of bike are you riding? Is it high or low horsepower? Sharp handling or not? These are factors to consider when making a plan - what are the strengths and weaknesses of YOUR bike and YOUR riding, and how can you make best use of those?