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Toes And Turn 8


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Well just finished lvl 3/4 at Willow Springs and made good progress...but turn 8 continued to be a problem (banked Right turn). Strugled with body position (locking in...relaxing right hand) all day. Finally tried a little faster and tighter and...to my bad surprize my right toe drageed (not the knee). Scared the $#^& out of me. NEVER had that happend before in any turn. Have no idea why or how to fix it...I am sure it has to do with my body position in that turn...Turn 2 (another tight right) got to be good and body position, locking in etc in that turn seemed ok...Any ideas?

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Well just finished lvl 3/4 at Willow Springs and made good progress...but turn 8 continued to be a problem (banked Right turn). Strugled with body position (locking in...relaxing right hand) all day. Finally tried a little faster and tighter and...to my bad surprize my right toe drageed (not the knee). Scared the $#^& out of me. NEVER had that happend before in any turn. Have no idea why or how to fix it...I am sure it has to do with my body position in that turn...Turn 2 (another tight right) got to be good and body position, locking in etc in that turn seemed ok...Any ideas?

 

That happens to me, too, and pretty much only in that turn. The simplest thing to do is just make sure you have your foot tucked up on the peg, with either the ball of your foot, or better yet your toes, on the peg, versus putting the middle of your foot on the peg and leaving your toes hanging out in space. Or, you could work on your quick turn so you snap it over fast and early, that way you have less lean angle in the middle of the turn. Or you could raise your footpegs a little, if you have adjustable ones. Or you could stiffen your suspension a bit (rear compression) so the bike doesn't sink so much at that bump at the beginning of the turn.

 

Where in the turn does it happen? If it happens right at the beginning, at or before the first apex, you probably have to look at foot position or bike setup, but if it happens in the middle of the turn try the quick turn idea. For me, it usually happens in the middle when I am trying to go fast but don't snap it over fast enough at the turn point.

 

For a lot of people it must happen at the dip at the first apex, because there are a LOT of scrape marks there! I think that is a suspension issue, it seems to happen to the SV650s a lot and I hear they are a bit soft in rear compression.

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I first experienced this a few years back at Summit Point's Jefferson Circuit. I was in the Carousel (Turn?) and felt my right boot hit the deck, causing me to spook and stand the bike up a little. Definitely a barrier.

 

I was told that most street riders (and you can observe this) will tend to lock their boot heel on the footpeg. It's comfortable and it provides a measure of consistency by having it there every time.

 

I was advised to try and ride with the balls of my foot on the peg as Hotfoot suggested. It was uncomfortable and felt ... wrong, for so many reasons. But I worked on it for EVERY ride. It's now my preferred foot position and my feet, through muscle memory know where to go. Now, I only change when I'm on the highway and need a little more legroom. No more toe draggin.

 

There's another benefit to it too, but I'll let you discover that on your own.

 

Cheers.

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That happens to me, too, and pretty much only in that turn. The simplest thing to do is just make sure you have your foot tucked up on the peg, with either the ball of your foot, or better yet your toes, on the peg, versus putting the middle of your foot on the peg and leaving your toes hanging out in space. Or, you could work on your quick turn so you snap it over fast and early, that way you have less lean angle in the middle of the turn. Or you could raise your footpegs a little, if you have adjustable ones. Or you could stiffen your suspension a bit (rear compression) so the bike doesn't sink so much at that bump at the beginning of the turn.

 

Where in the turn does it happen? If it happens right at the beginning, at or before the first apex, you probably have to look at foot position or bike setup, but if it happens in the middle of the turn try the quick turn idea. For me, it usually happens in the middle when I am trying to go fast but don't snap it over fast enough at the turn point.

 

For a lot of people it must happen at the dip at the first apex, because there are a LOT of scrape marks there! I think that is a suspension issue, it seems to happen to the SV650s a lot and I hear they are a bit soft in rear compression.

 

Hey Hotfoot thanks for getting back and that is some good info. I was riding school bikes so not sure about suspension and foot pegs but never seemed to have that problem before. My coach did tell me I was on my toes on footpeg and needed to be more on ball of foot...so more foot was sticking out i guess. Maybe the inside foot needs to go back to the toes. It happens mid turn so maybe the quick turn thing would help and I know I need to work on that alot. My basic question though would be why doesn't the knee hit first??

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I first experienced this a few years back at Summit Point's Jefferson Circuit. I was in the Carousel (Turn?) and felt my right boot hit the deck, causing me to spook and stand the bike up a little. Definitely a barrier.

 

I was told that most street riders (and you can observe this) will tend to lock their boot heel on the footpeg. It's comfortable and it provides a measure of consistency by having it there every time.

 

I was advised to try and ride with the balls of my foot on the peg as Hotfoot suggested. It was uncomfortable and felt ... wrong, for so many reasons. But I worked on it for EVERY ride. It's now my preferred foot position and my feet, through muscle memory know where to go. Now, I only change when I'm on the highway and need a little more legroom. No more toe draggin.

 

There's another benefit to it too, but I'll let you discover that on your own.

 

Cheers.

 

Hey Jay

Well as u can see from above...my problem was that my toes were on footpeg...so my coach had me move my foot forward to the balls of feet on footpegs, so more foot was sticking out. I guess maybe i have to move that inside foot back to the toes. My basic question still is ..why doesn't the knee hit first?? Seems like my bodyposition still isnt right.

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I first experienced this a few years back at Summit Point's Jefferson Circuit. I was in the Carousel (Turn?) and felt my right boot hit the deck, causing me to spook and stand the bike up a little. Definitely a barrier.

 

I was told that most street riders (and you can observe this) will tend to lock their boot heel on the footpeg. It's comfortable and it provides a measure of consistency by having it there every time.

 

I was advised to try and ride with the balls of my foot on the peg as Hotfoot suggested. It was uncomfortable and felt ... wrong, for so many reasons. But I worked on it for EVERY ride. It's now my preferred foot position and my feet, through muscle memory know where to go. Now, I only change when I'm on the highway and need a little more legroom. No more toe draggin.

 

There's another benefit to it too, but I'll let you discover that on your own.

 

Cheers.

 

Hey Jay

Well as u can see from above...my problem was that my toes were on footpeg...so my coach had me move my foot forward to the balls of feet on footpegs, so more foot was sticking out. I guess maybe i have to move that inside foot back to the toes. My basic question still is ..why doesn't the knee hit first?? Seems like my bodyposition still isnt right.

 

 

Pigeon toes? (LOL) No, just kidding.

 

I don't know if it's your BP (I'm sure you're dropping the knee out) or suspension bottoming out (how much weight is it supporting) or some other issue. Ride height will determine which will drop first (knee or toe) during the turn. FWIW, Troy Bayliss routinely dragged titanium toe sliders.

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I apologize if this is threadjacking, but Hotfoot brought out another question:

 

Where in the turn does it happen? If it happens right at the beginning, at or before the first apex...

 

Cobie mentioned to me that this turn had 2 apexes. I think my first 2 sessions, I instictively ran 2 apexes and then...I dunno...for some reason I tried to make this one sweeping turn with one apex. Do you have a photo? Possibly something drawn out for slowcoaches like me?

 

 

For a lot of people it must happen at the dip at the first apex, because there are a LOT of scrape marks there!

 

A photo would really be helpful.

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How about a video instead?

 

 

Austin was there the same weekend we were at the school, Jay. You'll see Apex #1 pretty clearly...apex #2 is a little less obvious. Hope this helps.

 

 

-r.

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How about a video instead?

 

 

Austin was there the same weekend we were at the school, Jay. You'll see Apex #1 pretty clearly...apex #2 is a little less obvious. Hope this helps.

 

 

-r.

 

 

Video is hard to follow...it's pretty hacked up.

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How about a video instead?

 

 

Austin was there the same weekend we were at the school, Jay. You'll see Apex #1 pretty clearly...apex #2 is a little less obvious. Hope this helps.

 

 

-r.

 

 

Video is hard to follow...it's pretty hacked up.

 

This is a url for gps map of track don't know whether it helps or not

http://www.sundaymorningrides.com/circuits/streetsofwillow/

You can zoom in on turn 8 (top turn). What it doesnt show is that it is sharply banked

 

It is a double apex and I didn't (don't) really understand it i guess. I always took it as one sweeping turn.

 

steve d

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Hi Steve,

 

The question was why doesn't your knee hit: please refresh me on what levels you have done, and if you did level 2, did you get on the lean bike?

 

CF

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Just finished two day lvl 3/4 and WS and Mike P was my instructor (awesome) and we worked for two days on this turn...lol///..yes did the lean bike first two day..then this time around also

This toe thing though scared the ###### out of me lol...My question was..in that turn (turn 8 WS) why does my toe hit before my knee?

Happened when Mike had me move my feet up more...maybe he didnt mean inside foot lol..

anyway...I think i just need to work on my body position in right hand turns...i am pretty sure that is it..just thought that the toe thing might mean something in particular

 

steve

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Just finished two day lvl 3/4 and WS and Mike P was my instructor (awesome) and we worked for two days on this turn...lol///..yes did the lean bike first two day..then this time around also

This toe thing though scared the ###### out of me lol...My question was..in that turn (turn 8 WS) why does my toe hit before my knee?

Happened when Mike had me move my feet up more...maybe he didnt mean inside foot lol..

anyway...I think i just need to work on my body position in right hand turns...i am pretty sure that is it..just thought that the toe thing might mean something in particular

 

steve

 

This is a bit hard to do w/out you in front of us on a bike--but take a look at where your foot is placed on the peg. Is it on the outside of the peg? Some riders put their foot right on the edge, and then the toe hits first. Check that and let us know.

 

CF

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ok will do

Have some track days this weekend at NJMP :rolleyes:

Will work on it and let u know

 

steve

 

Yeah, like to know if that fixes it.

 

CF

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It's hard to diagnose the problem without seeing what you're doing. If you've gotten far enough that you've done level 3 and 4 you're probably close to scraping hard parts. I'd guess leaning, your foot position, and how you're angling the bike all would need to be looked into. If it's just that corner, you could possibly just need to adjust in that one. Maybe if you adjusted your apex you'd be in a different position.

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It's hard to diagnose the problem without seeing what you're doing. If you've gotten far enough that you've done level 3 and 4 you're probably close to scraping hard parts. I'd guess leaning, your foot position, and how you're angling the bike all would need to be looked into. If it's just that corner, you could possibly just need to adjust in that one. Maybe if you adjusted your apex you'd be in a different position.

 

Hey Hub...thnks for input...yea..it really only was that turn 8 and I don't think i ever got that turn right..i think though that my body position still isn't right...i know that another student "locked in" the inside foot (heal back and into the bike) and he said that really helped...who knows...right now I am so confused lol...I have kind of gotten addicted to watching Colin Edwards ride after watching his save (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9TxqSttQHM) and it just is amazing at how he is so quite on the bike in turning...the leg goes out he turns the bike and there is like NO movement of his body..and literally none above the handle bars (head etc)...the only thing that changes in the turn seems to be bending the inner elbow...just don't know...

Anyway thats what makes this so fun..trying to figure all this out lol !!! :rolleyes:

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I have "wings" on my '05 ZX6R that I plant my heels on, and it's perfect for every corner. I know my feet are in perfect position. I'm at work, so I can't watch it, but if it's the Jerez save, it's wicked.

 

There seem to be a million things i need to get set perfect every time in a turn...lol..but I am going to work on the feet this time out I think...

And yes it is the Jerez save...truely amazing...I really like watching Edwards ride!

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Just a follow up...had a couple of track days..and worked mainly on foots

Took everyone's advice and really concentrated on that..

Basically I had the ball of foot, centered on peg, but I really concentrated on locking the inside (turn side) heal in..basically fitting it into the swingarm (seems to go there naturally on my bike). This had the advantage of naturally rotating the hip and knee out...felt very natural after awhile and worked will with getting the BP set for the turn...Hubb..it kind of feels like you said with your "wings"...the foot seems to go same spot all the time now...

Anyway...thnks for help...

Cobie...hope to see u at CSS at NJMP in May

 

Steve D

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