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Hanginoff


Mcshin
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Something's buggin me. I ride both a sport bike and a supermoto bike. I just finished the Level 2 at CSS and learned how to properly lean off a bike on their 'lean bike'(amazing tool by the way) Now thats on a Kawi 636. With a 'standard' type bike with bars wouldn't you hang off the same or is there some inherent difference to the sitting position, or bars etc...?

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It was interesting watching the Supermoto race at Sears Point this past weekend. Some guys would ride roadrace style and hang off, others were riding motocross style and pushing the bike under them. Seemed like the faster guys were riding motocross style. Although I think in slower corners the motocross style woudl work best, while in faster corners the hang off road race style might give you an advantage.

 

Just my opinion as an outside observer, I haven't tried supermoto yet but I'm dying to.

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I just watched Doug Henry do some serious tire shredding at Loudon. He was pushing the bike under motocross style. He was shredding tires so fast it was unreal. He would step it out in the breaking zone, and never bring it back in line until he was going straight again.

 

Some fast locals were right on his tail using the roadrace style hanging off. Their tires were in decent shape after the race and they were mostly in line through the turns.

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Hi Guys,

 

Well, with the Super Moto School here in the UK we teach this:

 

Body position should not be either road race or Motorcross but Super Moto!

 

Road Race has you hanging off too far and with those big wide bars it's hard not to put too much input into the bars.

 

Motorcross uses too much lean angle when it's not needed and it destroys tyres and limits grip.

 

Super Moto uses a body position where you are up on the bike but not pushing it under as your body is to the inside slightly. This allows the bike to be a little more upright but more importantly it puts you in a better position if the bike tries to highside. You should be pivoting at the hip.

See www.supermotoschool.co.uk for piccys.

 

All the best

 

Andy Ibbott

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okay so heres my findings. On turns where the turn in speed is slow, such as a haripin, it really benefits to "back it in" because you are doing a lot of the turning in a more upright position, thus avoiding tucking the front wheel going into the turn(bigger contact patch). However on fast turns, it seemed a lot more stable to be knee down and using a more road race style(brake,turn,roll on the gas) There's a great turn at Grange which is a double apex that really can be fast when you pick a roadrace line.

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okay so heres my findings. On turns where the turn in speed is slow, such as a haripin, it really benefits to "back it in" because you are doing a lot of the turning in a more upright position, thus avoiding tucking the front wheel going into the turn(bigger contact patch). However on fast turns, it seemed a lot more stable to be knee down and using a more road race style(brake,turn,roll on the gas) There's a great turn at Grange which is a double apex that really can be fast when you pick a roadrace line.

I know just the corner you're talking about... ;)

 

Personally, I belive ridning style is a lot about personal preference. I race a MiniMotard CR-80 in the CMRRA and I just can't ride it Motocross or SuperMotard Style. I hang off that thing like a monkey with my knee on the ground nearly every corner. It's how I feel most comfortable and how I personally get around the track the fastest... Doesn't make it right for everyone but for now, it's definately right for me. :P

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  • 5 years later...

hello all

saw these posts and read with interest as i,ve been meaning to add a similair question . ( maybe i should have added as a whole new post )

body position on a flat track (short track in u.k) bike .

i did a 1 day experience day at the end of last year this is similair to a supermoto bike ( no front brake )and tyres on a cinder oval surface ( rye house speedway track in the u.k ) and for all those in the u.s.a a short track .

i was surprised at the differences in body position taught to road race style . they had us sitting forward on the tanks and top half of body hanging off to the right for going left ! this was real awkward for me initially and dead opposite of how i try to ride on a race circuit .

also raising the right hand elbow high in the air on the straights so that when bike is leant over left with your left leg outstretched and steel shoe on the floor you have a good hand position for throttle control .

also after backing the bike into the turns we were told to push the bike down (not steering input) i guess this is like a push it under you style .

anyway great fun and certain areas vey different to what i,m used to .

 

but getting back to my main query i,m assuming the backing in and push it under is a lot to do with the relative speeds and grip of the tyres as opposed to in a roadrace tarmac situation on a quick steering sports bike .

your thoughts ???

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Backing it in was a bit of a fad a few years ago, but not much of that happening now in road racing. I think it takes a bit of attention off of aspects that are more important, like maybe front wheel traction at turn in, and also how quickly can you turn a bike in if you are backing it in. Not at area I'm expert at, haven't done any Supermoto to speak of.

 

CF

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i,m assuming the backing in and push it under is a lot to do with the relative speeds and grip of the tyres as opposed to in a roadrace tarmac situation on a quick steering sports bike .

your thoughts ???

 

Hey Teg,

 

I did a flat track school and raced flat track a couple times last year and your right the riding position is very different from what you do on a road race bike. I think this is mostly due to the lack of traction and the rough surface.

 

When you push the bike down under you flat track style, it is easier to allow the bike to move around under you. When you're going though a corner on a flat track bike and the front and rear are sliding then hooking up and the bike is moving all over the place, if is way easier to allow the bike to move under you if your sitting on top.

 

Another reason for this riding position on the flat track bike is that you can pick the bike up coming off the corner way better.

 

It is also easier to recover from front slides in this position. At the flat track school I did they taught you NOT to lean into the corner! This is pretty much the exact opposite of what we do on a road race bike. The instructors would actually beat you with a stick as you came by them if they saw you leaning in, not joking! And as I quickly found out, if you are leaning in roadrace style on a flat track bike and the front slides (which it does pretty much all the time) you end up on you face quite quickly (which I did many times before they broke me of this bad habit).

 

 

I hope that helps.

 

 

 

Anyway, I love riding all different forms of motorcycles. I ride Roadrace, Trials, Flat Track, Supermoto, Motocross, Trail Rides in the desert, and casual rides on the street. One thing I find really interesting is how some things you do on one bike don't work at all on another bike. Some things translate really well to all bikes. The trick is figuring out what to do on each type of bike.

 

Lately I have been riding more Supermoto and Motocross more then anything else. Well, I do ride my street bike to work every day. But anyway, It is funny how when you switch between different disciplines how much you have to change the way you ride. All the hacking the bike sideways and pushing the bike down underneath me that I do on my supermoto bike doesn't work at all when I jump on the S1000RR and ride a nice track. The way I use the front brake and use nice sweeping lines on my road race bike won't work so well on the MX track....

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interestin stuff all

firstly cobie if i could back in a super sport street bike on track at will i wouldn,t be complaining ! when its happened to me its not been real deliberate and its been at slow speed .

Also i agrre this would take up more than a bit of my attention , ha,ha .

 

stumans comments are also interesting as i was going at the flat track experience from a road race perspective , so as stu man i kept gettin told that my hanging off learned at the school was wrong for flat track and this annoyed them no end !!

but i can see why now with the vey different surfaces tyres speeds etc .

interestingly enough i lost the front on about 3 different occasions on the flat track at mid turn but with my steel boot on iwas able to just push out with my foot and up she came .

 

i assume thas this won,t be too easy on a tarmac track on a 600 r6 , ha , ha

was good fun though and believe it or not a lot of the main school basic skills still transfered else i wouldn,t have been able to lap as quick as some of the amateur supermoto and moto x riders that were present .

 

sounds like stu mans done it all , interesting stuff . thanks for input people .

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