Deep Posted March 20, 2012 Report Share Posted March 20, 2012 It happens in some corners that I cannot get my elbows to drop as much as I can can .. In the same corners I feel my lower body is not very stable with the tank .. My outside peg is weighed but I feel I have to stretch a lot just to get the ball of my feet to touch the outside pegs .. I am much more relaxed in fast turns than in maintenance throttle corners or slow corners .. Also I actively have to focus on keeping the weight off the handlebars which I can but it does put more pressure on the lower back and tires me in a longer term Here is pic from a slow corner(I am the guy in front) Would like to add that I feel planted better when I have my footpeg on the arch of the foot .. is that a big a no no? Our instructors here always say stay on the ball of the feet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveRReV Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 you look so tense in that pic bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash106 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 If you feel your lower body is unstable, and you have to struggle to keep your weight off the bars, then your body is definately trying to tell you something. How could you sit and be comfortable and locked in anywhere on the track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I am pretty well locked in here idk I am confused .. I will probably just ask a coach to look more closely .. problem they don't see a problem when I am at the track but once I look at the pictures it looks weird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Posted March 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=501 Looks like I am just sitting high .. that what I exactly feel on the bike too .. hugging the tank adds unrequired lean to the bike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rutter Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Have you got any more photos? In that last one, it looks like you're staring at the ground about 2 feet in front of the bike. Hard to see if you're too far out of the seat, but it doesn't look like it to me. The one thing I found really helped in getting my arms to loosen up through a corner was to rest my outside forearm on the tank, this helped to lock me in further and meant that my inside arm could fall naturally to the inside of the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Have you got any more photos? In that last one, it looks like you're staring at the ground about 2 feet in front of the bike. Hard to see if you're too far out of the seat, but it doesn't look like it to me. The one thing I found really helped in getting my arms to loosen up through a corner was to rest my outside forearm on the tank, this helped to lock me in further and meant that my inside arm could fall naturally to the inside of the corner. I am still playing around with body position so you will find be pretty different is these photos .. but I will try resting the outside arm against the tank next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rutter Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I'm no expert by any means, and hopefully one of the coaches will chip in, but in those top three shots, your inside shoulder looks like it's twisting in towards the bike, rather than being open towards the corner exit. I know what you mean about playing around with BP though, I'm forever doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I'm no expert by any means, and hopefully one of the coaches will chip in, but in those top three shots, your inside shoulder looks like it's twisting in towards the bike, rather than being open towards the corner exit. I know what you mean about playing around with BP though, I'm forever doing that. Just to be clear you are saying I should have my shoulders more like that on the left on the diagram? I was going to not ask this but wth .. when doing the kissing the mirror thing do you feel you are sitting on your wedding tackles? like its almost between you and your seat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozfireblade Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 I'm no expert by any means, and hopefully one of the coaches will chip in, but in those top three shots, your inside shoulder looks like it's twisting in towards the bike, rather than being open towards the corner exit. I know what you mean about playing around with BP though, I'm forever doing that. Just to be clear you are saying I should have my shoulders more like that on the left on the diagram? I was going to not ask this but wth .. when doing the kissing the mirror thing do you feel you are sitting on your wedding tackles? like its almost between you and your seat? Nice!! your wedding tackle is important so take it easy. I find that if I keep a fist or so between me (the takle) and the tank then I can move around the tank without giving the tackle cause for alarm, especially during hard braking. I agree with Mr Rutter that it looks like your looking at your front wheel maybe try looking up a bit more unless its just the way your helmets sitting, should open up your wide view a bit too.Try dropping your elbow towards the corner a bit might help with the upper body twisting too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rutter Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 Just to be clear you are saying I should have my shoulders more like that on the left on the diagram? What I meant is that your torso looks twisted in towards the bike. If you're sat in your chair now, keep your legs where they are and twist your shoulders round to the left and right, now stick one of your knees out and twist in either direction, you'll notice that it feels much less tense if you follow your lower half. Ideally you want to be following the way your knee is going with the top half, not crossing up in the other direction, this also allows your head to point towards your next RP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonzilla Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 The two "The SBimage.com" photos are really cool looking. My first tip is to get off your butt... issue. The most simple way to fix this is to get one cheek off the bike and go with that. There shouldn't be any issues with your upper body in relation to your butt position, unless you're hanging all the way off. Unwrap your head from the "kiss the mirror" saying. It's not measurable while you're riding, and is no way to assess where you're at in regards to improvement. Instead, you can see where you should be by propping your bike up and getting your butt off the seat to the left or right. Now lean forward, putting your chest on the tank. If you're used to getting farther off, lean a little over off the bike. Bob's your uncle. You've just put yourself in a fine body position. Find something on the tank (I use the gas cap) to gauge where you're at. When my shoulder is on the gas cap, I'm where I want to be. Do the exact same thing on the other side. Using the "kiss the mirror"... technique we'll call it, you don't know if you're in the same position on both sides. If you have a set object to check this with, you'll be successful on the left and right sides. You're not Larry Pegram; consistency is key for you. I learned from watching the up and comers in our sport during race weekends and trackdays. They pay a lot of attention to getting into their body position while in the pits. Get on the bike, get in a tucked position, they shift side to side, adjust their foot, and hold a position for a couple to a few seconds. It's muscle memory. The Ray Bradbury quote "If you want to be good, you have to practice, practice, practice," rings true here. You don't HAVE TO lean all the way forward and scrape your chin on the ground. If you watch race 2 of Daytona, where the top 2 riders are with each other all the way through, Blake Young is hanging off the bike in the corners, but Josh Hayes is just leaning forward a bit. Get down, don't sit up, and have your weight to the inside, but hanging way off is just nice for photos. There's no benefit to it. As a matter of fact, at a certain point you're going to be too far off and need something to hold on to (the bars). Don't worry about relaxing your outside arm on the tank. If you're relaxing your arms, it should fall on the tank. If they lay on the tank, good. If not, so be it. If you're working on relaxing your arms AND laying your outside arm on the tank, you're doubling your efforts to do the same thing. Everyone who reads TOTW remembers the $10 worth of attention, but fail to apply it when assessing their riding. Just work on relaxing your arms, and that will suffice. You seem to be average in height. I'm 6'2, and am built like a sasquatch, so my butt is all the way to the back of the seat. If you're average in height, you should be somewhere in the middle of the seat. I don't feel my gentleman sausage being under me. I honestly don't pay attention to it. I'd notice it if it were an issue. If you're having a problem with being too tense on the bars in low speed corners, it's because you're not comfortable in them. I use my shoulders to gauge how relaxed I am in corners. I just let my shoulders drop when I'm done with my steering input, and I know I'm totally relaxed on the bars. Whatever you do, you know you have that deficit, so you are one step closer to fixing the problem. It sounds like a lot, but the things I work on in relation to body position are small. I don't want to spend too much time on it. I have a simple, comfortable body position that allows the bike to function well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 ^ I know exactly what you are talking about .. I know for sure that my body position however horrible it looks in the picture helps me keep the bike more upright. I have seem that some guys I am running with will use all the rear tire but I am at the same pace but not fully leaned over but they look "cooler" in the picture. Like I mentioned earlier my whole concern is me not being completely comfortable on the bike. I was re watching the video's from last year's motogp and looked like a lot of top riders have their arch of the outside foot on the foot peg .. I am going to do this from the next trackday since I know this makes me feel much more relaxed on the bike inspite of it being frowned upon by our coaches .. this might help me getting my inner arm more relaxed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonzilla Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 I was re watching the video's from last year's motogp and looked like a lot of top riders have their arch of the outside foot on the foot peg .. I am going to do this from the next trackday since I know this makes me feel much more relaxed on the bike inspite of it being frowned upon by our coaches .. this might help me getting my inner arm more relaxed Although you can learn a lot from watching GP riders, this isn't one of those things. Their bikes are prototypes, and are taller and thinner, which allows them to do that. If you have your outside foot in a bad position, you may have to transition to the other side and that could be potentially catastrophic. Have you tried raising your rearsets or getting stomp-grip? They could both allow you to lock in better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Posted March 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 I was re watching the video's from last year's motogp and looked like a lot of top riders have their arch of the outside foot on the foot peg .. I am going to do this from the next trackday since I know this makes me feel much more relaxed on the bike inspite of it being frowned upon by our coaches .. this might help me getting my inner arm more relaxed Although you can learn a lot from watching GP riders, this isn't one of those things. Their bikes are prototypes, and are taller and thinner, which allows them to do that. If you have your outside foot in a bad position, you may have to transition to the other side and that could be potentially catastrophic. Have you tried raising your rearsets or getting stomp-grip? They could both allow you to lock in better. Yes I have stomp grip and rear sets are raised and all the way back .. maybe I could bring them forward and get better feel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Posted March 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 I was re watching the video's from last year's motogp and looked like a lot of top riders have their arch of the outside foot on the foot peg .. I am going to do this from the next trackday since I know this makes me feel much more relaxed on the bike inspite of it being frowned upon by our coaches .. this might help me getting my inner arm more relaxed Although you can learn a lot from watching GP riders, this isn't one of those things. Their bikes are prototypes, and are taller and thinner, which allows them to do that. If you have your outside foot in a bad position, you may have to transition to the other side and that could be potentially catastrophic. Have you tried raising your rearsets or getting stomp-grip? They could both allow you to lock in better. well here is Kiyonari using the arch of his foot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotfoot Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 I was re watching the video's from last year's motogp and looked like a lot of top riders have their arch of the outside foot on the foot peg .. I am going to do this from the next trackday since I know this makes me feel much more relaxed on the bike inspite of it being frowned upon by our coaches .. this might help me getting my inner arm more relaxed Although you can learn a lot from watching GP riders, this isn't one of those things. Their bikes are prototypes, and are taller and thinner, which allows them to do that. If you have your outside foot in a bad position, you may have to transition to the other side and that could be potentially catastrophic. Have you tried raising your rearsets or getting stomp-grip? They could both allow you to lock in better. well here is Kiyonari using the arch of his foot I normally ride with the ball of my foot on the peg - however, if you took a photo of me in a right hand turn, you would often see my left foot with the arch on the peg - because I moved my foot forward to reach the shift lever for a downshift prior to the corner but haven't bothered to move it back to normal position yet. Since the left foot is on the outside I don't have to worry about dragging my toe, so I have no reason to try to re-situate my foot in the middle of the turn. That could be what you are seeing in this photo. Incidentally, it does look like he is using his heel against the bike to help hang on, sometimes that works great if you have a good spot on your bike; I didn't really realize I was using my heel until I put on new rearsets that came with bling carbon-fiber heel guards - they were slippery and I lost my grip point! I ended up going back to the stock metal guards. The reason we tell students at the school to put the ball of their foot on the peg instead of the arch, is to keep them from dragging their toes in corners, which can be startling, and hard on your boots, too. If you watch riders on the street (most of whom ride with their arch on the peg) you can clearly see how much the foot hangs down compared to if they were to scoot the foot back to be on the peg. I rode a small bike recently that had slippery pegs and my feet kept sliding up to the arch, I couldn't get enough grip to keep the peg at the ball of my foot. So I kept hitting my toes in the turns, which was annoying AND limited my lean angle. So then I was trying to scoot my inside foot back before each turn - it was very busy and very distracting! I learned two lessons - one, that grippy pegs are really important, and two, that having to move your toes out of the way for turns can be a real distraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Posted March 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 ^ True it does add to already long list of stuff you are doing .. plus in a chicane the switch has to be performed fast and smoothly .. I checked a bunch of his and other pro rider images and it looks pretty universal .. here is Kiyo on a left hand turn with the same thing .. arch of the foot for outside peg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogogusgus Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Deep CSS comes to your neighborhood in May. If you choose to go, I'll be curious to see how this thread looks to you afterwards. Ago hambones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Posted March 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Deep CSS comes to your neighborhood in May. If you choose to go, I'll be curious to see how this thread looks to you afterwards. Ago hambones I believe they came to NJMP thunderbolt(some of the above pics are from there) and the guys who did it were really happy with the results .. I wanna take the class when I hit a wall and am not improving anymore! Till then TOTW FTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogogusgus Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 see next post ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogogusgus Posted April 3, 2012 Report Share Posted April 3, 2012 hambones I believe they came to NJMP thunderbolt(some of the above pics are from there) and the guys who did it were really happy with the results .. I wanna take the class when I hit a wall and am not improving anymore! Till then TOTW FTW ------------------- Deep I counted 9 symptoms and 5 bandaids. Dude, go to school next month. It's in your backyard. Get the whole-body scan. Ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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