khp Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 I noticed in the just-released on-board videos from Jerez (most likely a practice session) that there is quite some difference between the three bikes. The captions don't say who the riders are, so I'll just call them by the bikes. If you listen carefully to the rpms (I had to turn up volume a lot to hear it), the Ducati has falling RPMs almost all the way through the turns until the bike is stood up and gunned. The Honda driver seems to take a more 'classic' CSS approach with the throttle being added sooner in the turn (I wouldn't call it "immediately after the steering action has completed", though). The Yamaha rider seems to run with a neutral throttle through mid-corner, but less pronounced than the Ducati. (Seems I cannot post three videos at the same time) Anyone willing to go out on a limb explaining this? Kai Edit: fixed link to Honda video. Sorry 'bout that, Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faffi Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 One theory is that sound/picture can be out of sync. Another is that the bikes demand different techniques. A third is that riders have different styles and preferences. Finally, the Honda rider could be Stoner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fajita Dave Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 The sound definitely did not match up on the Ducati video. Even from the start the sound was slightly behind the video and it just got worse as the video went on. The Honda link was a video of the Yamaha. I am kind of surprised by the throttle usage in the yamaha video. They had some maintenance throttle than simply stood the bike up and grabbed a hand full of throttle by the sound and look of it. I figured it would have been a smoother throttle roll on and standing the bike up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Rutter Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 I think it's simply a case of not everyone riding the CSS way, having watched Simon Crafar's video, he doesn't and I'm willing to bet that a lot of others don't either. It's not to say that they're necessarily right to do it like that, but I'm not about to lecture the likes of Lorenzo or Rossi and tell them they're doing it 'wrong'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khp Posted May 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 I think it's simply a case of not everyone riding the CSS way, having watched Simon Crafar's video, he doesn't and I'm willing to bet that a lot of others don't either. It's not to say that they're necessarily right to do it like that, but I'm not about to lecture the likes of Lorenzo or Rossi and tell them they're doing it 'wrong'. I absolutely agree, Steve. I was thinking the opposite way around: what can we learn from the way that Lorenzo, Hayden, Pedrosa, Stoner, and Rossi rides. Maybe there's something we (or, gasp, even Keith!) missed when working out the technology of riding. As an example, CSS clearly recommends that you don't hang out too much: "one cheek is enough" is said in the TOWT2-DVD. But when I watched the MotoGP Qualifying Practice on Saturday (I happened to find a bar in GuangZhou that showed ESPN. Didn't get to see the race due to a 5 hour delayed flight), clearly Stoner is hanging out with BOTH cheeks, and he's actually crawling down on the side of the bike. So how do we go and resolve these two observations into a single common "theory" or "technology"? I have my opinions about this... Kai Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktk_ace Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 all cards are out when extremes are used imho... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mugget Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Wow, the sound on those videos are not the best... seems to me that they have reduced the microphone gain, so we can only hear the louder sounds, the lower volume sounds of actual throttle opening could be cut out completely... (or maybe it's just a bad mic) You're right it does seem very strange, if you go by what you hear in those videos it seems like they're getting on the throttle really late. But given how fast they're going, do you think it's possible? The visual doesn't seem to match the sound... Have a look at this onboard video showing Casey Stoner at the Sepang test earlier in the year: That seems like a better quality video, throttle sounds just like what I'd expect? I always find onboard videos really tricky to look at, as far as trying to figure out what the rider/bike is doing. Much more obvious to see in person. Also they could be (or should I say, probably are) using different lines which can account for the different timing. It's also interesting that you mention the different styles in hanging off. But I think you hit it right on the head when you mentioned that the recommendation is for one cheek off the seat. Clearly that's not the only possible way to ride, and no one has ever said that. I always think of Elias and his body position... looks crazy uncomfortable and stressful to me, but then I am not a World Champion. Also those guys in MotoGP like Stoner, Pedrosa - they are really small guys. And they sometimes look as if they're climbing all over their bikes like monkeys. So I think the recommendation for one cheek off still holds true, and will most definitely be beneficial for the majority of riders, who do not posses World Champion skill and tiny physical stature. I don't think there is really any need to resolve all riding styres into a single all-binding "theory". The basics are the same, but racing prototype motorcycles is also alot different to riding street bikes... Anyway, I'm interesting to hear your opinions on that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep Posted May 4, 2012 Report Share Posted May 4, 2012 I think it's simply a case of not everyone riding the CSS way, having watched Simon Crafar's video, he doesn't and I'm willing to bet that a lot of others don't either. It's not to say that they're necessarily right to do it like that, but I'm not about to lecture the likes of Lorenzo or Rossi and tell them they're doing it 'wrong'. I absolutely agree, Steve. I was thinking the opposite way around: what can we learn from the way that Lorenzo, Hayden, Pedrosa, Stoner, and Rossi rides. Maybe there's something we (or, gasp, even Keith!) missed when working out the technology of riding. As an example, CSS clearly recommends that you don't hang out too much: "one cheek is enough" is said in the TOWT2-DVD. But when I watched the MotoGP Qualifying Practice on Saturday (I happened to find a bar in GuangZhou that showed ESPN. Didn't get to see the race due to a 5 hour delayed flight), clearly Stoner is hanging out with BOTH cheeks, and he's actually crawling down on the side of the bike. So how do we go and resolve these two observations into a single common "theory" or "technology"? I have my opinions about this... Kai maybe that is why he has arm pump issues? Vision is what separates a two racers not body position Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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