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Better To Track S1000Rr Or Something More Like An R6?


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I have an S1000RR. I got it because it has TC/ABS and it was unexpectedly civilized. I never had plans to ride on a track, but well, you know how that goes.

 

I'm still relatively inexperienced track-wise, and let's be honest, that thing has too much power (for me) even in Sport Mode. So at times I wonder if I shouldn't get something smaller as a dedicated track bike. But an R6 for example has no TC or ABS. Am I putting myself more at risk in that scenario? On the flip side, am I relying too much on the tech in the S1000RR and not really learning? Should I just deal with the power? It certainly does seem wasteful to NOT use the S1000RR as my track bike.

 

Anyway, these are thoughts that go through my head once in a while. Just curious what more experienced riders have to say. I figured I'd ask here instead of random S1000 or R6 forum because there's too much bias either way.

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I'll only trust judgment from riders who had ridden both bikes imho...

The new Kawasaki ZX6R 636 does come with TC thou.

Your height and weight , if you can reveal, can also help members here to see if the spring rate on the stock 1000RR is suitable or too hard/ needs adjustment/ or simply too big a bike for your body size.

If your body psych is more on par with hotfoot , Im sure shes glad to chime in on the pros and cons of riding the S1000rr VS a smaller bike like her morikawa ~

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I have had an R6 and I currently track an S1000RR. I purposly went with the BMW after riding it with CSS. I thought the combination of TC, ABS, and the multiple riding modes made it the perfect bike to grow with my abilty and add a safety factor to track riding. It is a fantastic track machine and I think the fact that CSS believes they are a great training tool is a big plus for the S1000RR.

 

As for spring rates, it is sprung for approximately a 165lb rider so as your pace increases you will want to consider suspension work (but then that would be the case with any production bike unless you are built like their prototype rider).

 

It is a more expensive bike to repair however. All that German performance comes at a premium...

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I think the results from students taking classes at CSS prove beyond doubt that the S1000RR is the bike that allow the highest average speed. That doesn't have to mean that it is the bike that will teach you the most skills, but you can go faster safer than on other sportbikes because it allows you to focus on your lines etc. since the electronic aids assist you in so many ways. So if you like the bike, keep it and enjoy it.

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I'm 6'1" and about 210. I'm working on that latter part :-)

 

The geardo and mechanic within me says you will at least need to change your springs to match your 210 pound psych.

 

And in between full blown race spec suspension, there is oil weight and fork internal drop in kits to consider , mostly depending on your budget.

 

PS. I'd get a ZX14R if i were you for my non track riding. Huge bike , lots of power, TC and roomy for you.

Maybe the suspension might even be in your weight range!

 

way too big for me thou, I'm only 5"9 . Stock 2013 S1000rr already feels slighly cramped for me last time i borrowed a ride from a friend so the S1000rr might be too small for you given you are much bigger than me.

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I say go for the 600 and work from there, when your abilities as a rider have progressed that the bike's performance is holding you back then move up to the 1000,

 

as a track dedicated bike , a 600 will be cheaper to purchase, less abusive on tire's, and probably cheaper to maintain than the S1000RR.

 

If the lack of electronic aids is truly a issue, you can add TC to any bike with a Bazzaz Z-FI kit.

 

Even the fastest guys in the world leaned to master their abilities on much much smaller machinery before moving up

 

Tyler

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Prior to riding the S1000rr, I would have advised getting a 600 not a 1000. But, the S1000rr is so pleasant to ride, easy to manage, and maneuverable, that now I'd pick the S1000 over a 600 every time, if finances permitted. It's a really amazing bike and the riding modes make it easy to manage and those modes CAN be used as a learning tool.

 

Havind said all that, if you really want to focus on cornering speed, a lightweight low HP bike forces you into it like nothing else. A Ninja 250, for example, can be a great learning tool and inexpensive to ride.

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The BMW is a spectacular bike. It's very fast and it's lighter than what you would expect for a 1000cc. The power modes, abs and TC make it extremely versatile.

 

The 600's have some advantages though. Popularity and price being one of those advantages. Popularity gets you lots more aftermarket parts at a lower price, people in the paddock with spare parts when you break something and a number of other advantages of it's ubiquitous such as mechanics that know them inside out. Price is also an advantage. A brand new 2014 R6 is 10K and in the used market you can get them cheaper. It's a lot less of an investment to potentially loose if you crash. There's also huge choice in used track bikes for 600's. If your willing to buy something that's not the current generation you can pick up a safety wired, fully prepped track bike with a lot of goodies on it from $2500-4000 depending on your budget and needs.

 

If it were my choice to make and I owned an S1000RR street bike, I would run the BMW for a while in rain mode and focus on the corners. Once I started getting more experience and started running faster I would move to a dedicated 600 track bike. Most likely used for the whole "what if" factor.

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I'm so crazy about my S1000RR that I couldn't imagine going to anything else at all. I can appreciate your concerns about the power as its hard for me to pin it since its riding on the back wheel a lot when I do. I'm just not used to spending that much time in a wheelie. Its a bit unnerving so most of the time I'm not pinning it. I'm glad you brought it up because I think i'm going to start working on that. Applying more power and getting used to being in a wheelie that is.

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I'm so crazy about my S1000RR that I couldn't imagine going to anything else at all. I can appreciate your concerns about the power as its hard for me to pin it since its riding on the back wheel a lot when I do. I'm just not used to spending that much time in a wheelie. Its a bit unnerving so most of the time I'm not pinning it. I'm glad you brought it up because I think i'm going to start working on that. Applying more power and getting used to being in a wheelie that is.

 

 

Don't forget that a bike on 2 wheels accelerates faster than a bike on 1, thats why millions of R&D $$'s have been spent on electronic systems to prevent wheelies

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T, Thanks for the info. I was kind of looking forward to learning to control the wheelies but speed is speed; I surely want to get myself out of the corner faster so I'll have to learn how to moderated the gas better.

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Second the ninja 250 idea.

 

3rd the 250 idea

 

Awesomely cheap learning platform, teaches a rider that carrying speed is more important than roll on power. Once you get the hang of it, a 250 riders lap times can be faster than I/B group liter bike riders lap times. However... imho, it is not the safest of track riding platforms and requires some upgrades to "feel good" or "feel planted".

 

It kinda goes like this;

The brakes suck (steel lines needed)

The front suspension is way too soft (new springs and emulators needed)

The rear shock is only preload adjustable, so bumpy tracks are an issue (gsxr shock swap)

The frame is flexy.. ie it will flex under really hard cornering loads

The stock bars make it feel like riding a tricycle (clipons needed)

 

Overall, it takes a rider that can deal with the issues of a 250 at pace, but for those who can ride one fast... a gift is waiting when you throw a leg over a stronger cornering machine.

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One thing to consider with 250's is "how much do I weigh". Lighter smaller riders do well on 250's. Heavier riders won't be able to get the same level of "fun" out of a 250.

 

I had similar thoughts picking a Yamaha FZR400 that is more powerful than a 250. I'm 6ft and 220#. I learned a lot from riding the FZR but overall it was not the experience I expected. A lot of that had to do with my weight.

 

250's are awesome bikes and a lot of fun to ride on the track but it's important to consider your weight if you choose to go that route.

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Second the ninja 250 idea.

 

3rd the 250 idea

 

Awesomely cheap learning platform, teaches a rider that carrying speed is more important than roll on power. Once you get the hang of it, a 250 riders lap times can be faster than I/B group liter bike riders lap times. However... imho, it is not the safest of track riding platforms and requires some upgrades to "feel good" or "feel planted".

 

It kinda goes like this;

The brakes suck (steel lines needed)

The front suspension is way too soft (new springs and emulators needed)

The rear shock is only preload adjustable, so bumpy tracks are an issue (gsxr shock swap)

The frame is flexy.. ie it will flex under really hard cornering loads

The stock bars make it feel like riding a tricycle (clipons needed)

 

Overall, it takes a rider that can deal with the issues of a 250 at pace, but for those who can ride one fast... a gift is waiting when you throw a leg over a stronger cornering machine.

 

 

Do the newer models still need those mods? I was thinking that the recent models had a stiffer frame, better brakes and suspension.

 

Also, any feedback on the Honda 250? It sure looks like fun - I don't think it is quite as fast as the Ninja but I have seen at least one rider going around really well on one of those.

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The Cbr 250 is a good touring bike only.The suspension is way too soft for any track use.The engine is also meant for smooth power delivery in the city and is neither as powerful nor rev friendly as the Ninja 250 was.

 

Do have a look at the Ninja 300.It even has a slipper clutch and sufficient power.Very smooth engine and you can do a fair bit of track riding on it stock.

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Yes Hotfoot, the newer models still need those mods to squeeze fast lap times out of them but you can have plenty fun and go plenty fast on a stock 250 with just a tire swap. It's all relative to the rider right? :)

 

The 300's feel a bit better out of the box. New bike placebo maybe? Seems kawi listened to riders in some areas and went for a .5in wider wheel in the back and a stock 140 rear, which is what a lot of the racers mount up. The valving in the rear shock was also changed, it's still pretty weak and still only preload adjustable but more rideable overall. The power was moved more toward the midrange too, which I like. What hasn't changed with the 300's, is the crappy front end. The front springs are still too soft and brakes still suck but I haven't heard anyone complain of frame flex yet. Although, the 300 is a fuel injected bike and some models have ABS.

 

I can only give you indirect feedback on the cbr 250 thumper as I haven't ridden one. The other racers at the track seem to like their cbrs. Their main complaint is top end speed, the lil ninja pulls on them hard in the straights. 2nd biggest complaint is it costs a lot of $$ to make it competitive in all areas with the ninja. I have seen a cbr 250 rider win against a field of ninjas, but it was heavily modded and the rider was very talented. The winning rider said, the cbr handles better in the corners once setup.

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