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Hey bloodrun, that sounds like a really big question! "How to use your brakes more effectively"... there could be so many answers, and a lot would depend on what exactly you want to achieve by braking at that moment. While I would agree that it's definitely really interesting and exciting to watch how WSBK and MotoGP riders use their brakes, trying to imitate their methods may not have the desired result of helping you to brake more effectively... The point you mentioned about being spooked by the front end diving fast under heavy/sudden braking really caught my attention. It reminded me of a tip I received at one rider training day. The gist of the advice goes like this: "don't focus on the downward movement of the front end/forks compressing, or your pressure on the brake lever. Concentrate only on the feeling of traction at the front tyre". I did that for the rest of the braking drill and the rest of the day, improve my braking a lot. What I noticed in myself was that when I was thinking about how much the forks were moving through their stroke, I would have a tendency to try and adjust for any sudden fork movements by releasing the front brake lever and re-applying the brake! This is definitely not an efficient braking method... I think I had also been concentrating on the brake lever pressure so much because I was trying to create a gradual, even fork compression. But by concentrating on the tyre grip you can also feel a gradual build up of grip in the front tyre which achieves the same result of a smooth fork compression. By turning all your focus onto the front tyre, you are going to be in a better frame of mind to concentrate on what is really important, and be able to listen to what the bike is telling your about your front tyre traction. The reality is that it doesn't matter how dramatic the fork dive feels, the important thing is that you can feel the tyre traction and recognise when you're nearing the limits. Look out for any signs from the front tyre that could indicate that the braking forces are starting to overload the tyre - things like shuddering, chirping, skipping, etc. If you concentrate on gradually building grip into the front tyre, you can still achieve smooth braking even if the forks do dive through the stroke. This is something I've been working on ever since, every time I go for a ride whether it's just around the suburbs or on a track day - it's just as applicable. If you're able to give it a try I'd be interested to see what you think about it! I think if you work on tuning into the front tyre and getting good at "listening" to it, that will take you a long way towards having more confidence. From then you can start to try out different things, like trying to find how hard you can brake while turning slightly (I suppose this would lead onto being more confident to try trail braking, if you are interested in that), and what effect fork dive has if you're turning... But take it easy and don't ride over your limits. It seems like one of the reasons you don't get many "braking drills" in books etc. is that there is the real possibility of things going bad, as the above video demonstrates! But from what I know, there isn't any big secret, it's all just down to a riders individual ability to feel what the bike is doing. A big part of that is directing your attention in the correct manner, it's probably no coincidence that also applies to many other areas of riding...

Wow Hema, that's a comprehensive list! Power figures and everything... do you have a dyno in your garage or what? Oh I should also add one to update my list... About a month ago I picked up a '99 KTM 380 EXC. Converted to supermoto... currently just pulling it down for a bit of a freshen up as 13 year old bikes require, (which is why I've been a bit absent from here lately) then I'm going to get it road registered and head out for some motard track days. Aiming to have it done by the end of the year! I went for a quick squirt around the block once I had the 17" wheels fitted up, on a 50T rear sprocket... the bike was mental! Love the 2T sound as well...

I'm sure there's a way you could carry the stands... a guy here in Australia made the news for carrying a BBQ on his bike down the freeway... so yeah I'm sure you can manage a couple of stands. Whether or not it's a good idea, that's another question... I am sticking with riding to track days for the near future. Much less hassle for me that way!

It's really interesting watching pro racers, especially those guys in GP. While it does show what is possible at the highest level, it does not necessarily mean that it is something that is beneficial to us "regular" riders, or that it's something we should even try to imitate. If I recall correctly, someone on the forum here (was that you, T-McKeen?) mentioned that Crutchlow rides that way simply to overcome setup limitations of the bike. He has said that he is too short to have his outside foot on the 'peg when cornering (since he leans so far off the inside I suppose). So we can guess that he would actually prefer to have his foot on both 'pegs, that surely would give him more control. What it does show is those riders amazing ability to ride around those kind of setup limitations... While it may not be a good idea to try and imitate having your outside foot off the 'peg mid-corner, I think it is very beneficial to be able to imitate the kind of adaptability that those riders show. What I mean is, if you can persist in trying to find a good body position on your current bike, and you eventually find it, that will give you great confidence knowing that you can get on any bike and be able to solve any body position issues. I have never been in that situation myself, I can only imagine that it must be very frustrating... the only thing I can suggest is to think about the exact differences between your bike and the CBR600. What do you need to achieve the same feel or body position on your own bike? Whether it be bike modifications or dramatic body position changes. I would look at all the geometry like footpeg-seat distance, seat-to-handlebar, handlebar-to-seat etc. Although you have probably already done all of that... it's a tough one, I don't know what else to suggest!

Interesting to know Ballistic! I'm going to keep that in mind when I need new rotors... My current brake setup doesn't leave me wanting... but if you need to buy new rotors, you may as well end up with something better, right?!

Haha, good point. I guess what I consider "old" is the old school type superbikes similar to the current ZRX1200, and anything older than that. Particularly noticeable on cafe racers. Good point about wheelies being a concern (or not being a concern). I suppose body position plays a more important role now with sportbikes getting shorter wheelbases and everything getting smaller - more important to move back in the seat under braking and more important to move way forward under acceleration.

Great stuff Mark! I know that I benefited greatly from Level 1, even though I had read all the Twist books and seen the DVD as well. There is nothing like going and getting actual instruction, and it's really great that you get the same high level of instruction and information whether you're in the U.S. or Australia or anywhere in between!

Yes I have done some experimentation! I picked up that idea of zero 'bar pressure from reading the Twist books, that's what I ideally aim for. But I caught myself being slack and leaning on the 'bars a little bit during my last track day on Sunday. I feel much better, and feel that I have more braking capacity by having no weight going through the 'bars. Keeping body low and forearms parallel to the ground has helped me a lot with that. The down side is that it does take more effort to grip with my knees, but I think it's worth it. No one ever said that riding well wasn't going to take some effort! For very heavy braking from high speed to low/medium speed I found that sitting right back in the seat has been necessary to be able to brake harder without the rear wheel leaving the ground so much. But then I have to scoot forward in the seat quickly before I turn in, usually just release my grip on the tank near the end of braking and allow the braking force to move my backside forward in the seat to the right position (around the middle, maybe just forward of middle of the seat for me). Speaking about seat position while braking... I'm curious if any of the CSS staff, KC (or anyone else) has experimented with sitting forward right against the tank while braking? I have tried that briefly, and it seems to solve the problem of having to grip the tank with you knees so much since you can't slide forward if you're already against the tank. But I found that the problem is then that I'm in the wrong position for the corner, I can't get a good lock on at all if I'm sitting right against the tank. Then it's also hard to have my forearms in the correct position (parallel) for maximum 'bar input for turning. Could that be a reason why the old style bikes used to have really long tanks? If so, why did they move to having smaller tanks? Ducati stand out to me as a bike that still has a relatively long tank and reach to the 'bars (or at least the 1198 did). Just thinking out loud...

Hi the watcher, welcome to the forum! Why not head over to the "New to the forum" section and tell us a bit about yourself and your riding goals? Onto the question of braking and foot position... I can tell you what I do - I setup for the corner while I'm still upright on the straight, well before I have to start braking. This means I get my body into the position I want to be in mid-corner. I move my backside on the seat, I position my outside foot with the arch on the footpeg and my inside foot with the ball of my foot on the 'peg. I have found that it's much easier to get grip on the tank with a traction pad like Tech Spec. Gripping my knees on the tank can still be a real workout if it's a particularly heavy braking section (for example 260 down to 90km/h). But I have found that if I can hold my body position it really pays off when I arrive at the corner, because I just turn in and I don't move my body at all because it's all set. I don't use the rear brake on a race track, if it's a left hand turn I do have to move my foot after gear changes are done, but I am locked in with the outside leg in that case (right leg), so my left leg does not have much weight on it, I just quickly move it into position. Although that still happens ideally before I even turn in, after the last gear change before I finish braking. I'm not quite sure what you mean by bracing your heel against the 'peg... maybe try getting your foot into position, then raising your heel so your knee pushes up into the tank. Imagine a calf raise type movement, like you were standing on a flat floor and you just raise your heel up, keeping the ball of your foot on the ground. A lot of this type of thing can also come down to your size (leg length, etc.) and the size of the bike (seat to 'peg to tank distance etc.). Maybe adjustable rearsets would help so you can get more "locked in".

A discussion on another forum about brakes got me thinking about potentially using cast iron rotors on my GSX-R when it comes time to replace. And also on a supermoto that I'm building. From what I understand, cast iron will actually give better braking performance, with better feel to the rider. The downside is that if you ride/live in a particularly wet or humid location the iron is prone to surface rust. Not that it would destroy the rotors, but it just doesn't look too good. Motorcycle riders being the fashion conscious bunch that they are, this is not a very popular option! The other thing is that I believe you just use the correct type of brake pads with cast iron. Sintered are a very big "no no", so organic brake pads seem to be the only choice. Cast iron also seems to wear much better (last longer)? I have only ever used bikes with stainless rotors. Currently I use the Suzuki OEM rotors and Carbone Lorraine XBK5 sintered pads and I don't have any complaints. Just wondering if anyone has experiences good or bad with cast iron?

Cal has stated in interviews that this is a result of his just being too short, his outside leg is dangling off the peg quite frequently. Oh wow. Really?!! You'd think those guys could get set of custom rearsets or something! I'm amazed! Then again... MotoGP is an extreme...

The only thing I can add are a couple of situations where I short shift, may help you understand where & why it may be used. And I don't usually run above 12,000rpm anyway (redline is 13,500rpm), but I put that down to mechanical sympathy. First situation I can think of is if I'm approaching a corner at the end of the straight and I rev it out a bit, I will run out of revs before my turn point, so that would mean shifting up a gear for only a short period on the throttle, followed very quickly by downshift/braking and turning. Putting all those actions so close together gets a bit too busy for me, so I began short shifting about mid way down the straight so I approach the corner with less distractions and more attention. One other situation for me is on corner exit. In particular there is one slower 1st gear corner on my regular track that if taken in first gear the revs run out very soon on exit, and revving out first gear also tends to remove traction at the front wheel. (Especially if the bike is not yet fully out of the corner and settled.) So I usually enter that corner in 2nd gear and focus on opening the throttle earlier and getting better drive that way. I think the important thing in all of this is to recognise that just because a person is riding around hitting the limiter before each gear change, does not necessarily mean they're making best use of the throttle and rev range. Speaking personally I know that when I used to ride that way, it did feel much more "busy", but I was using so much of my attention looking at the tacho, watching for when to shift that I would arrive at the corner without much free attention. I am riding a whole lot faster now that I use my gear shifts to create free attention rather than trying to rev out each gear, and also short shifting for those other reasons mentioned. My speed improvement came from having more attention and using it on improving corner entry (and midcorner, exit) speed, not from necessarily twisting the throttle more on the straights. Something to think about. Just reading back that last paragraph, I keep coming back to that part about using gear shifts to create free attention... I like it!

Wow, you sure are having a lot of slides on the street! That's a tough one, so many variables that can come into play to cause slides, even before you start thinking about tyres. Do you think that you've gradually been riding faster on the street? Or would you say that your speed has stayed fairly constant over all those years? One observation I would put out there is that the quality and ability of tyres has improved quite a lot. So maybe you were more comfortable when you were riding on older rubber because you were able to find their limits? It can be a bit of a mental challenge to try and use a tyre and push it when you don't quite know where the tyres limit is. How did you feel all those times when the tyres slid? Were you tense and gripping hard... were you thinking about whether or not the tyres would slide? This may seem to be going a bit left field (and may not even apply to you), but stay with me... If you're worrying about sliding, I would say that you've just got to stop worrying. This is an entirely mental technique/issue. Learning riding skills and techniques that raise your skill level and allow you to be more confident in your ability will no doubt help with confidence. But for some people I think it still just comes down to a "mind over matter" type problem. It's just through sheer willpower that they're able to force themselves to stop worrying about things. The same applies for a person who is worried about crashing - I believe it becomes just like target fixation. You can't not think about something. An example: if I told you "do not think about pink elephants", I can probably guess fairly accurately what you just thought about. If you apply that to riding - imagine someone who is constantly worrying about crashing while they're riding, thinking to themselves "don't crash, don't crash..." What's going to happen...? That's not to say that a person will immediately crash as soon as they think about it, but if that's what they're constantly thinking about there is a much higher chance that they will actually crash. I will let some others add their thoughts now, so many things to consider in this subject.

Good points khp. But I think that everyone knows how to practice braking, the real question is how to practice emergency braking. It's all fine when you know what to expect and brake when you want to, I'd say that everyone can do it pretty well. But the real test is whether you can maintain that high standard of braking when you weren't even planning to brake in the first place... I have done the "hand up" drill with a mate who was going for his bike license. Helped him a lot. I have also done that at a training day, I thought I knew how to brake and that I was doing everything just fine. But having someone stand in front (well, in front but offset to the side obviously) and tell me that I was actually dropping my head was a big help. If I had just kept practicing by myself I probably wouldn't have even noticed that. The "hand up" drill is also how new riders are tested when going for their license. It makes sense to me, because on the road (or track) you often have to brake on demand, you can't wait until you're all setup right and prepared for it.

Hi rootkit007, welcome to the forum! Your comment about having to apply throttle to complete the turn caught my attention. I know that my riding change a lot when I better understood the relation between throttle and cornering... it's most definitely something worth taking the time to learn about and improve in! First of all a question to you: what do you think will happen if you did not apply throttle at all during a turn? Let's say your bike just died and you had to coast through the turn? Sounds like you're getting the hang of that! And yep, you can do strange things at slower speeds. For example if you're riding a bicycle you can be riding in a straight line and tilt the bike to one side so that it's leaning while you ride in a straight line. But that doesn't mean it applies to motorcycles. I think that is one thing that took me a while to understand when I started riding motorcycles... all of those years I spent on BMX and MTB just didn't seem to work on motorbikes! Just on the subject of "counter steering" and "normal steering"... Imagine that you've just tipped into a big sweeping left hand corner and you want to tighten your line so you move towards the inside of the turn. How will you accomplish this? Will you turn your front wheel to point to the inside of the turn by pushing on the right handlebar? Also consider that counter steering works just as well to stand the bike up quickly coming out of a turn. Is there really a difference between "counter steering" and "normal steering"? On the subject of lighter wheels being easier to turn the bike - that's absolutely right. But it's important to realise that your ability to quick turn is not mainly limited by the weight of your wheels! Here is a summary of quick turning that may be helpful: The force applied to the inside 'bar determines how quickly your bike will turn. The length of time that force is applied determines how far your bike will turn. (I have said "turn" instead of adding "lean" because that is really how a bike turns, you cannot turn without leaning. And so it follows that if you turn more, you will lean more.) Another interesting point is that the Australian Superbike series (and others I'm sure) only permit the use of OEM wheels. And yet they come within seconds of MotoGP lap times. I think that's a good example to show that not having lightweight wheels is not the real limiting factor for most people!

Good stuff. I was wondering what Rea would say about MotoGP... always interesting to see what happens when a racer has to adapt to one of those MotoGP beasts! As far as 50 degrees lean and hard on the brakes.... I'm having a really hard time trying to actually process that!!

For an "emergency braking" type situation on the road, I think one important technique thing is to make sure that you actually do "hard braking" rather than "panic braking". Practicing that with a friend is really helpful I think. Get them to stand at a certain spot, and ride towards them at whatever speed you want to practice at/feel comfortable with. Then get your friend to raise their hand, when you see them raise their hand, you try to stop as fast as possible. The trick is that they will raise their hand randomly, so you can't anticipate it. They can also watch your eye level to make sure that you keep your eyes up on the horizon, as well as looking at how your suspension compresses to watch for a smooth braking action, or advise you if the braking action is jerky. Just one note about braking in the wet, or even an emergency brake in dry conditions - if the bike starts to move around, I'd say that you've overcooked it. Much harder to maintain control of the bike with the rear end moving around. Fine on the track when you have heaps of run off area etc., but I wouldn't want to be practicing that for street use. Riding on a wet track, I just ride very cautiously. Much slower than in the dry, and with much larger safety margins. I think that's it really, riding to the conditions. If I came into a corner too wet on the track, I would just focus on being smooth and not tensing up. You can get away with a surprising amount if you stay smooth... For racing I think the same things would apply. For example if you saw the last WSBK round from Russia, you would have seen how much slower everyone went in the wet, even going way off line just to try and find their way around and find some better traction. So I think the broad answer is - just ride to the conditions.

Cheers for those links Hotfoot! And thanks for those links also Brad. Yep - definitely an interesting point! In some cases (mostly for myself) I think of better tyres as being similar to other upgrades like carbon fibre wheels and Ohlins suspension. I figure that yes, those things will give an immediate improvement, but that will remain true no matter what level your riding is at. I think it's of more benefit to continue to improve my skills on current equipment rather than trying to gain once-off improvement through part/tyre upgrade.

Hey Ian, Welcome to the forum! Looks like you've built yourself quite a nice bike! I've gotta ask... what did you do for the frame and swingarm? I saw a mention that it was painted? Looks fantastic! There's definitely upsides to starting on a 600 (or even smaller), but just remember that the bike only goes as fast as you twist the throttle... And once you have a bit of time riding the 1000, I don't think you'll be regretting it! But I think that getting in for some training ASAP will also go a long way to stopping bad habits from taking hold and setting your on the right course! Hope to see you around the forum! Cheers, Conrad

Ah, exactly the same as my GSX-R1000. (Although I'm fairly sure that bike weights a little less than the K 1200!) But those are my street recommended pressures as suggested on the swingarm sticker. I have ridden with as low as 20psi rear on the track. And then I rode home from the track! (About an hour ride of highway and suburban streets.) Yes there's a difference, and depending on the circumstances you can feel that difference to varying degrees. I used to think that really low tyre pressures would lead to something serious like the tyre popping off the rim, but that just won't happen. I am not saying this as a challenge to anyone... Just to make the point that tyre pressures have quite a large workable range, it's not as serious as life and death. YellowDuck - sounds like you continue to make good progress! On the subject of those slides that you experienced... from what you've said I would suggest that you're closer to the mark when you say that you were riding on a less grippy, dirtier part of the track when the tyres slid. It seems to me like the only things that grippier/higher spec tyres provide is the ability to carry higher corner speed, and generally provide more grip at higher lean angles (such as being able to take more power before sliding when opening the throttle at high/moderate lean angle. Probably better trail braking ability, but I haven't tested that!). Even if you were on a very street biased set of tyres, you would still be able to turn as fast as you possibly could, and if it was enough to overpower the tyres it would be the rear that slides first. So I'm thinking that a slide in any situation other than that is caused by something that can be corrected or adjusted, not that it's a sign of needed to upgrade your tyres. Does that make sense? But that leads onto an interesting question - when do you know that it is time to upgrade your tyres??

Welcome to the forum Chopper Dave. Great to hear that you had such a good experience at CSS. Am I right in guessing that it was your first time riding on a track? Now the fun really starts when you keep using those lessons in your everyday riding, you'll keep seeing improvements!

Jasonzilla - you take a track map with you as you're actually riding on the track?? Do you stick it on the tank? How does that work, it's not too dangerous looking down at your tank while riding?

I once read a quote on this subject, I'm still not sure who was supposed to have said it... it was attributed to "A wise scruffy looking Irishman who you'd think would have lost his accent years ago." That pretty much sums it up for me. If you tighten your grip on the bars mid-corner, do you think the tendency would be to maintain the same turning radius? Or, if you tighten your grip, would it be likely that your arms would also tighten, straightening the bars? I think you've got the right idea - even being a little bit tight on the bars could have a definite unwanted effect. I'd be interested to see what you find if you try imagining that the grips are little birdies...

Welcome to the forum roamingbeemer. I always only hear good things about the S1000RR. You've already got some experience, so I wouldn't say there's too much cause for concern over having a litre bike. After all, it will only go as fast as you twist the throttle... And once you get out to the School I'm sure that things will just start to fall into place for you. (I know they did for me!) I really enjoyed Total Control and picked up quite a few good points from that as well. I've mentioned that book on the forums here in the past, along with another favourite of mine that also really helped improve my riding to another level - The Upper Half of the Motorcycle by Bernt Spiegel. Definitely not taboo, at least no one has told me so! But really that's the great thing about forums - the different discussions that can develop. Cya 'round the forums! Edit: I just realised that I had already seen you around the forums and given a welcome, but happy 2nd welcome.

Discussion is definitely an important part in getting a better understanding of certain techniques and improving our riding. So keep it up Eirik (and everyone else)!