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I have not used Shinko tires myself, but from what I have seen they are mainly popular among drag racers... (at least their Hook Up & Stealth tire). At a track day I had been talking with a person about them, and they basically said that they had seen people on Sinko's flying off into the gravel traps... don't know how much of an exaggeration that was, but from what I now know through experience, I would say that anyone who crashed and blamed their tyres was either riding beyond their limit, or does not have enough understanding & feel of traction (or both). As far as your crashes during braking on wet roads... I would not be looking to blame the tires, but that shows me that you were simply riding/braking too hard for the conditions. Just slow down a bit & ride to the conditions. If you don't know the limits of those tyres, what is to say that you will be able to know the limit on any other set of tires? But as far as wet capabilities between different brands of tires, my understanding that the rubber compound is the single most important thing (tread pattern is not nearly as important). I think the big tire companies will tend to have better wet weather performance (as a broad, sweeping generalisation). I remember testing out a set of Bridgestone 002s on back when I had a GSX-R600 on a wet road... I was doing my best to provoke a slide and I was very, very surprised with how well they rode in the wet (of course they did slide eventually). But my advice as far as tire choice goes - don't go and buy a set of top end sport tires just because you think they will be "grippier" and give you more confidence. Of course many people do exactly this, but they're cheating themselves in a way. Yes they may have more confidence and be able to ride faster & harder, but they will have blind confidence, they won't be able to feel out the limits of the tire (which is dangerous because they may keep pushing & pushing, then suddenly crash and not have any idea why). If you use a "lesser" type of tire and learn to find it's limit, you will gain a lot of feel & understanding of how to also find the limit of a higher performance tire. Also a lesser tire will not need to be pushed as hard to reach the limit, so it will be much easier for most people to get to understand traction this way instead of having to ride so fast that they scare themselves! Of course all this talk about "finding limits" is best practiced on a race track instead of the road... that's a dangerous game to play with armco & oncoming traffic.

Wow... sounds impressive! Great to see more & more companies looking to develop electric sportbikes. Hope something viable comes through within the next few years or so... once my K6 Gixxer is too old & tired I will seriously be looking to EV options for my new track bike. Drastically reduced maintenance, consumables & running cost... can't wait!!

Very nice. Great that you were able to track test the S1000RR at CSS and decide that you like it! That's my biggest worry about the next bike I buy - a road test ride is hardly enough to judge how it will handle track laps.

My advice - take a pen & paper, and most importantly make sure you write down things from the class sessions as well as from what your coach tells you! Especially things that just stand out as interesting, or that you think could help you. At my Level 1 day we received the booklet right at the start of the day, so I used that for my notes from the classroom session as well as from my debrief with my coach. This has worked out really well because now I have a record of each drill, as well as things that I specifically have to work on and be aware of. Plus extra notes on things that can help me. Worth the effort to make sure you're taking notes!

From my experience at the School, it's not intimidating at all. And there's absolutely no pressure to "keep up" with everyone else on track. You just ride at a pace you're comfortable with, exactly the same as if you're riding on the road. Actually I was a bit surprised, but for the opposite reason. I was used to track days and riding at that sort of pace before I attended CSS. But when I got there I found that everyone (including myself) was riding so much slower! The aim is to concentrate on the drills and exercises, not to set a new personal best time every lap!

Hi fm58, as long as you meet all the bike requirements as listed by the School, I think you will be fine. But if you want to be completely sure I would phone or email your local CSS branch to get clarification on any specific queries. I know when I did the school we didn't need to remove mirrors (just folded them in or tape over them so you can't look in them) or tape up lights etc., but I think some tracks have different requirements (and CSS must abide by them). All the best - hope you have a great day on 3rd September!

Welcome to the forum Andy. Good to hear it was just the bike scratched up in those spills, and definitely better for that to happen on the track than the road! Speaking of a free track... I wish our council would do something like that!! Looks like a pretty good track as well, lots of corners, just what you need... Cya 'round the forums!

Hi David, welcome to the forum. Not to worry about October being booked out... that just means you have a bit more time to keep working on your Level 1 & 2 drills! Cya 'round the forums.

Welcome to the forum Paul. Have you had a chance to watch the Twist II DVD yet? What did you think? My response when people ask if they're ready for CSS is usually to say that if you can go, stop and turn a bike - you're ready! From what I've read the CBR250R is quite a fun & capable bike. And to be able to ride Phillip Island... I will get there myself, one day!

Welcome to the forum fireflyer, great to see you've jumped into some discussions. As far as having the "goal" of knee-down and removing chicken strips, I was kind of like you in that regard. When I just started out riding I figured that if I wasn't getting my knee down, and wasn't using all of the tyre that I was in a way "wasting" the capabilities of the bike! And that really disappointed me! But my goals have changed since then, and like warregl mentions - knee-down is really a result of proper riding technique, not an end in itself. If you look at it with that approach, and make it a goal to learn the proper riding techniques that will naturally produce knee-down and using all the tyre, you'll go much further and be much better equipped for a lifetime of riding enjoyment.

Hi Kachhhing, welcome to the forum! I bet you're counting down the days until the 22 & 23rd September... enjoy it! Cya 'round the forums.

The other thing to keep in mind is that if you want to shorten the corner by that much, and keep the same speed (or increase your speed at the same turn point), you will have to improve your quick flick even more - otherwise it just won't be possible. So quick flick is not the problem, but rather it's the only solution. Quick turning is part of the solution to make a corner shorter (in combination with a late turn point) and spend less time on the edge of the tyre. Less time is used to reach the required lean angle, but also the total lean angle required will be less (compared to an earlier turn point using lazy steering).

Great stuff, YellowDuck! Sounds like the tyres are working just fine, a sports/track-oriented tire definitely needs to be worked harder to get up to the proper operating temperature, but then they are awesome. Many people describe them as "sticking like poop to a blanket". Which is just what that gummy/sticky feel helps to achieve. As long as the tyres felt good while you were riding, I wouldn't worry about it!

Ah, okay. So to put it simply - helmet laws in Australia basically come down to the fact that unless your helmet carries the Aus Standards sticker (shown below), it is illegal. There are a number of companies that can certify a motorcycle helmet, most commonly the SAI Global type label will be seen. Note that even if an identical helmet is sold overseas and certified to Snell/DOT/ECE etc., it will still be illegal to use on Australian roads unless it carries an approved Aus Standards sticker. It does not matter if the helmet once carried the sticker and it was removed for some reason, if the sticker is not on the helmet, you can be fined for it. Aside from that there is also the risky situation of third party damages caused by a rider who is not wearing an approved helmet (their insurance will not cover them). As far as the law is concerned, if your helmet does not carry one of those little stickers, you are not wearing a helmet! Thankfully I have not heard of police checking for the sticker on riders helmets, some people in Australia have elected to buy helmets from overseas and still use them on the roads. But this puts them in the tricky situation of what happens if they have an accident involving other parties... (some people feel quite strongly about the Aus Standard situation and if challenged will go to court to prove that their helmet does meet the standards). Track day organisations will also check for the Aus Standards sticker at scruitineering, no doubt because of the insurance concern. Some people who have spent much more time researching this than myself will say that a helmet which is identical to one that is Aus Standards compliant is technically approved. But that is a big grey area IMO and would probably involve quite a discussion with the highway patrol if they pulled you up for it. Regardless of any technicalities, Department of Transport and other Government sources all state that a helmet carrying the AS 1698 sticker is required. I had a quick search online and the prices seem to be fairly well matched whether a person is looking to buy within Australia or overseas. The price difference is the main reason that people will look to overseas retailers. About 4-5 years ago I can remember some helmets being almost half price through overseas retailers! Much of the information available focuses on the fact that helmets must comply with AS 1698, but I have never actually seen any info about the testing procedures used! I think it's safe to say that any helmet that passes the American/European safety tests will also pass the Australian Standards test. So it's not actually that Australia has any tougher safety standards, more that someone just wanted to play around with some politicking. I don't think anyone really knows why we can't just use helmets from other countries (that is aside from the politics involved with the Australian Standard). All it means is that anyone in Australia has a much smaller choice of helmets compared to the rest of the world. At least that is my take on it, don't take this as legal advice if you decide to come to Australia and go for a ride!

Good point there - anyone who is thinking of having a play around with some custom airbrusing/paint should keep in mind that water based paint is really the only option (AFAIK). Other paints use petrochemicals to thin the paint, and those chemicals will soften the shell. But if you contact a specialist paint supplier they will know exactly what paints are safe to use. Good point about the wind noise Hotfoot. That can drive a person mad... I have read good reviews about Schuberth, apparently they have great ventilation and they're also quiet. Even their "touring" helmet seems to be quite suitable for track use (as far as low noise & aerodynamics go). Unfortunately I don't think they're available in Australia yet because we have to have our very own safety standard (the rest of the world mustn't be safe enough for us ).

That part about motorcycle helmets not proving much venting... I think they're just saying that if you're cycling you don't require as much protection from a helmet (it takes much less to protect from a 20km/h impact compared to a 200km/h impact), and so you can have more ventilation. I think for Average Joe, the helmet standards & ventilation do a good job in the real world. For example, cruising down the highway you're not going to heat up so much that you wish for a really ventilated helmet (or there are open face helmets if you really do want ventilation). The extreme case is sports/track riding where you are exerting quite a lot of energy, especially in summer. But I would wish for better ventilated leathers sooner than a helmet. Not that it would make much difference when you're crouched down over a machine that is doing it's best to pump out massive amounts of heat.

Well it's not really that unusual... just a holding the counter-steer angle to maintain the lean angle since both wheels aren't following the same path. Here is a good writeup where Nick tries to explain the best way to start your adventures in tire smoke and highsides: http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2011/01/motorcycle-drifting-car-drifting/ Obviously the stretched swingarm allows much more control since it won't react as fast as a stock wheelbase bike (although comparing it to OEM wheelbase could be a bit misleading, it's really the swingarm length that makes the difference). A prerequisite is being comfortable doing rolling burnouts. Start out doing a high RPM burnout going as slowly as possible, then release the brake and go full throttle, trying to keep it straight. When you can handle that the next step is to start making some small steering inputs and gradually increase the rear wheel angle. But riding beyond your limits there is a quick way to hospital. Simple, eh? I would love to get an old thrasher and put a swingarm extension on and try this stuff out. But then there's always the problem of where to do it... maybe one day. I believe that "swinging" as it's known is a popular night time activity among sportbike riders in Aruba (if you want to get up close & personal to some real life drifting).

Interesting vid Eirik. Even in that situation I would wonder if the rider was really paying appropriate attention and at a safe distance where he could have stopped if the car in front had just slammed on the brakes with no notice? If not, he wasn't giving himself enough safety margin. But yeah that could have ended really badly for the rider... Good point T-McKeen. When you say changing variables, do you mean the rider making different (better) decisions? Because that's kind of the point I'm thinking of - in every crash there is usually something that could have been done to avoid it, so why not be aware of those things before an accident even happens. The other side of that is that if someone believes there are certain circumstances where a crash was/is unavoidable - they're basically accepting the fact that they are going to crash! Which I just don't believe is true at all. If I had to describe an impossible to avoid accident, it would be something like a meteorite landing on my head. It wouldn't be anything to do with other road users. In your example warthog, I'm guessing you were driving a car (do bikes have struts? ) But if I were on a bike I would simply choose a line that I knew was good road surface, anything that I'm not sure of I will avoid. At least that's the way I approach my riding - with the view that there's no such thing as an unavoidable accident. If I crash, it's because I made a mistake or made a poor decision. Minimising mistakes and making good decisions has been working well for me!

Welcome to the forum! It seems to me like you have the right idea. I will just add that both arms should be relaxed, not necessarily the inside arm more than the other. But the fact that you will have more bend in your inside arm since your outside arm has to stretch across to the outside handlebar (if your body is positioned to the inside of the bike) may make it seem like your inside arm is more relaxed. True, you can move it more freely, but ideally I think they should both be equally relaxed. As far as helping turn-in, sitting forward will definitely allow for more efficient turn inputs. If you are hunched forward/moved forward in the seat, you're in a better position to have level forearms, which will allow for the most efficient steering inputs. I suppose you could also postion your forearms as level if you sat right back in the seat, but that seems awkward to me (and probably most others as well!) Also think of it this way - do you have more control & power if you try and push something starting at full-reach, or if your reach starts closer to your body? Imagine sitting down and you have to move a 10kg weight that is sitting on the desktop. If you position your chair so that the weight is at full arms length, then try to move the weight, how much force can you put into it, how far could you move the weight? Compare that to moving your seat closer to the desk & weight to where your arm is closer to a 90º angle, now extend your arm and move the weight - you'll be able to generate much more force and move the weight further. On sportbikes I think you will find that simply hunching over and being a model of bad posture will help the "straight arms" syndrome. I notice a lot of straight arms when people especially on sportbikes are trying to sit upright. Just a comment on moving centre of gravity off the pegs... personally I just sit on the seat, and most of my weight is supported there (centre of gravity is no where near the 'pegs ). I may put some force into the outside 'peg to help with lock-on, but the majority of my weight is on the seat. Even moving forward right against the tank, I wouldn't say that it's impossible to keep any weight on the 'pegs - legs can move into a great variety of positions after all! A prime example of this is accelerating hard out of slow turns, I do move forward in the seat and hunch down with my helmet as closeds to the screen as possible to reduce the tendency to wheelie. And during that there is definitely weight on my feet, it's not like my feet are at risk of slipping off the 'pegs, not even close! At that point I would say that there's actually move weight bias towards the 'pegs than at mid-corner - because I lift myself using my legs in order to move forwards on the bike. But I still keep a light grip on the 'bars, the only time my hands are taking any weight is under heavy braking, and even that I try to minimise as much as possible (ideally I would prefer no weight supported through the 'bars, ever. But that's just me.) Limiting movement - the example of sitting at a desk and moving the weight shows this point well. In the case of steering inputs I would say that elbows closer to your body gives more power & movement - don't forget that steering is a forward push movement on the inside 'bar. Extend your arm to near straight and see how much further forward you can move your hand, not much compared to having your elbow closer to your body. Sitting forwards for me does not mean a tighter grip on the 'bars. I always keep a light grip on the 'bars - whether I'm sitting back or forward in the seat. (Braking hard is the only exception I can think of.) As others have said, there's a time & place for both sitting forward and sitting back - it all depends on what you're trying to accomplish on the bike. Accelerating hard - sit forward to reduce wheelies. Braking hard - sit back to place more weight over the rear wheel and keep it on the ground. But I think you're talking mainly about setup position prior to turn-in? Personally I would not advocate sitting forward, or backward in the seat. The primary concern should be whether or not you can "lock-on" with the tank & footpegs to give yourself stability. If you don't have that stability, that's when you'll have problems with unwanted inputs at the 'bars as you try and hold yourself on the bike using your hands and arms. Having a good lock-on I believe is also vital to pivot steering? On the subject of sitting forward during cornering... I think this can also be done without any bad consequences, under the right circumstances. If you look at most racers these days, they don't really seem to have a good lock-on with their outside leg. Look how much the outside knee is sticking out away from the tank. How much leg could be in contact with the tank? Maybe a little, a fairly small amount? How is this not a problem? I think it has to do with the cornering speed. If a rider is consistently cornering at speeds that generate 1G cornering force, they simply won't slip off the seat and they require zero effort to keep themselves on the bike. Think of your bike on paddock stands, you can hop on and sit on the seat in any position, you don't even have to hold on with your hands and you can be confident that you're not going to fall off (unless you do something silly). You're stable because gravity is holding you on the seat, you're not going to just float away. If a rider is cornering fast and generating 1G of force, it is exactly the same for them mid-corner as it is for you sitting on an upright bike - you both have the same forces keeping you on the seat. So if a rider can do that and decides that they gain more by sitting forward mid-corner, and that they don't need that lock-in, that's fine for them. But the main thing that should influence that choice is whether or not it will cause undue input to the 'bars (IMO). It sounds like there is some confusion over moving back and sitting back. I think most people will find that moving back in the seat is required to have a good lock-on, and to have a decent portion of your leg in contact with the tank. I would say that is the primary technique advocated by CSS, rather than a specific forward/back seating position. Whatever your seating position is - if it allows you to lock-on and is comfortable etc., then that's what you want. That then forms the basic of being able to keep a light grip on the 'bars and just about everything flows from there. When setting up your body position for cornering, the same goal should apply - to get a good lock-on. Apart from that there are many variables depending on corner speed, how much braking before the corner, what's coming after the corner etc. Personally I aim to get my helmet as close to the screen as possible and to the inside of the bike when cornering. But if I was coming from a high speed straight into a slow corner (for example 260km/h braking down to 80km/h), I position myself back on the seat (maybe not at the very back of the seat, but further backwards) so I can brake harder without the rear wheel coming off the ground. Then I just keep that position for the corner. Most other times I just set up in a position that allows good contact with the side of the tank for a good lock-on. I can say that I don't sit right forward in the seat, and it hasn't ever seemed to hurt my turn-in ability. It seems to me like the much more important factor in turn in is your quick-steer capability, which revolves around having efficient and powerful steering inputs. Those are my main concerns as far as cornering body position goes: having a good lock-on, and being able to make efficient steering inputs. Hope that helps!

Just to throw a question in here... have you ever seen an accident that could not have been avoided?

Definitely an important point. For me, my riding really stepped up a level (or few!) when I finally understood that my speed when I release the brake does not need to be the speed required at the apex. That is to say that you can enter a corner much faster and the very act of turning & cornering will continue to reduce your speed. Big eye opener!

Interesting thread... my first thought was that a fast corner will always cover more distance than a slow corner. For instance the fastest corner on a track I regularly ride - just my turn input there takes longer than the whole of the slowest corner on the same track! I would like to think I would notice it, but in reality... I don't think I'll notice it in a fast turn as much as a slower turn. The other thing to consider about whether or not the 1mph increase has the same effect on the riders state of mind - would it depend on whether the rider was near their maximum in the fast turn and the slow turn? I am just thinking that because I try not to rush slow corners (because I know how easy it is to mess it up), I will always keep a bit of safety margin there. However in fast corners I am much more likely to push myself, and if I enter at 1mph faster there's a fair chance it will be new territory for me and beyond my comfort level. But I really couldn't say the same for myself in slow corners. But if we are talking about riding an unfamiliar road (or track), yep I'm sure a minor speed increase would seem like much more in a tighter corner than in a wide open corner.

Twist Of The Wrist II covers this point really well and uses some good diagrams to show the effect of a late turn point combined with a quick steering rate... not sure if you have got a copy of Twist II but that is definitely recommended! The entire steering section will help you, but in particular starting at Ch. 15 Lazy Turns and The Turn Scale, starts to address the concerns you're asking about. If you want to increase your speed into a turn, and remain on the same line, you must increase your steering rate. That is the compensation for going faster into a turn - if you don't do that, you'll need to change your line (or your line will be changed for you as you run wide!). You could make your turn point sooner, in effect changing it to more of a "lazy turn" in which you take longer to accomplish your steering, but that is not a very good plan. Yes you will need to push past that uncertain area, it does take a certain level of commitment and trust to keep increasing your turn rate. CSS Level 1 really helped me a lot with this. It also helps to know that if your machine is in good working order (tyres in good condition etc.) and the track is dry and free of debris, you can literally turn as fast as you want without any problem. The front tyre will not "wash out", in fact you'll notice the rear tyre losing traction before the front does (and that is only if you can quick steer to quite a high level). That remains true while you use a single steering input per turn, and obviously don't touch the brakes or throttle during your steering. Does that help?

Wow, cutting it close! Did you guys change the tire yourselves? I'm interested to hear this one... I'm not quite sure how a tire could be inflated but then completely deflate itself down the road without getting a big puncture... Anyway, I think most people do make those "idiotic mistakes" or have their own close calls at some stage in their life (to varying degrees of idiocy or closeness ). My motto in those situations is make sure you never make the same mistake twice. A person who continually makes the same mistake - well that is when the "idiotic" label really starts to stick!

Another thing that could make it happen is initiating the turn while the rear wheel is mid-air, or not stable on the ground (bouncing, skipping, chattering etc.) It will also appear to "back in" if the rider makes the steering movement quick enough. (If the "quick steer" is executed fast enough, the rear tyre will break traction.) Definitely many things which could cause it. Whether or not those racers actually want it to happen is another matter all together...