acebobby

Hi Jay I used to have a cbr600f which i believe is the UK version of your F4i, I now have a cbr600rr which I am unable to compare as my riding style has changed so much since joining this forum but both bikes are not that different on paper! Since joining this forum the first thing I focused on was throttle control, it is still my main focus even when practicing everything else a big margin of my attention is on throttle control. I know you will have read this but go over it again http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=540 especially 8. Being willing to experiment with roll-on rates. The right wrist often has its own idea of how quickly to roll-on. This is a bit scary to experiment with but worthwhile to conquer. working on this gave me so much more exit speed than I thought possible and the back would not slide, at the time I had pilot power 2cts on my bike, and the harder I pushed the more they seemed to grip, I was getting to a point where I wanted it to slide, was getting more confident, rolling on faster all the time until it let go on a mountain road near my house, I just thought wow! it felt like the back stepped out loads but was probably not even an inch, That was a riding breakthrough for me, I have managed to repeat it a few times since so yes you can slide a 600 but you have to work up to it and find where the limit of grip is for yourself! always obey the rules of throttle control and always make sure you are relaxed, then push through the barrier!

I do that too! But the 2 stages of braking are ease it on then ease it off, in between the 2 stages is maximum braking which will differ for different situations, smoothness on the brake lever is key as if you experience a front wheel lock up you do not have to completely release the brake to regain control! Easing the brake out is just as important as easing it on and not grabbing a handfull of lever! On an interesting note a front wheel lock up can be controled by counter-counter steering if there is such a thing i.e. if you push right hand bar while the front wheel is locked the bike wil go left and vice versa but only while its locked, the rules return to normal as soon as the wheel begins to spin! So say if you brake deep into a right hander and lock the front, by putting a little pressure on the inside bar the bike will try to stand up only untill the wheel begins to spin again. I have overthought this technique and its messing with my head but I heard a pro racer talking about saving a crash with his knee and using this to his advantage!

The pickup drill that they taught is really good, always pull the inside bar and never push the outside bar so not to upset your body position, after watching it I decided to go out and give it a try and I felt that by doing it I could be a bit more aggressive (confident) with the throttle at the exit, unfortunately for me winter is here in Scotland so good riding days are few and far between! I dont know what level they teach that drill, I was in the same group as the presenter on the first day of filming doing level 1 and never got it so I can only assume it gets done in level 2 or 3, I believe the knee to knee is covered in level 3! Unfortunately I have been unable to get a hold of eps 5 and 6 yet so have only seen the first 4.

Wow I just got back from Spain and am amazed when I found this topic on its 4th page in such a short time, that must be a record! How can there be so much of a debate regarding the basics of what we all practice and discuss. When I joined this forum less than a year ago I talked about a lowside crash I had and how I couldn't understand how it happened, Cobie back then told me to study the sections on throttle control, I read those sections over and over and practiced them on the road and it has become the way I ride now, when I did my level 1 my instructor encouraged me to speed up my quick turn, this was a tough barrier to get over as I thought that I was turning quite quickly but now, wow, it still sometimes overwhelms my senses when I push the bars and reach my desired lean angle, there is a section in the TOTW books that asks you to rate yourself from 1- 10 at how quickly you can turn a bike 1 being slowest 10 being fastest, back then I rated myself as a 4, I am now probably really a 4 maybe a 5 and this is an off gas firm push on the bars that I would not even attempt if I was on the gas! In a perfect situation I will end my braking right at my turn point and to quote one of my favourite statements in the book, turn and burn! Hay racer I recall a different thread where you offered someone $20 to buy the TOTW book, maybe you should keep the money to buy soft science lol, only joking, its an interesting read though!

I suggest that you stop applying pressure to the inside bar as you are not allowing the tyre to track the road, all your suspension upgrades are worthless if you dont let them do their job! I would practice getting it right even if you have to slow down and grip the tank with both knees at first, the idea is to minimise rider input, If your bike is in tip top condition i.e steering head bearing and all bearings ok, swing arm pivot ok, able to steer lock to lock without cables fouling, all just general maintenance really then I think the problem is psychological. Different tyre manufacturer's have slightly different profiles but they dont cause problems, the problems are caused by the riders confidence in the tyres, I have ran michelin pilot power 2CTs for 12000 miles (more than one set) on my bike and they gave me mega confidence, I found my steering to be predictable and accurate! I have recently changed to Dunlop qualifiers through the recommendations on this forum and the fact they are much cheaper, out on a ride there is a noticeable difference in the bikes handling, unfortunately winter has arrived here in Scotland so I have been unable to push very hard to really test them out!

Ok so what happens if you dont keep pressure on the inside bar? You also say that your line will tighten up if you dont stay in the gas, but this cant happen, the bike will run wide if you close the trottle!

Has this been a problem for 1-1/2 years since changing the suspension and tyres, or since recently when you got the suspension serviced and fitted the rearsets? maybe the rearsets are causing you to put more weight over the front of the bike than you previously did! Also is your suspension set for your weight, since getting it serviced are you using the same springs, fork oil, etc?

Repsol are the massive spanish oil company that sponsor the factory Honda team, Dani is the young Spanish rider and one of the faces of repsol as seen in most of their advertising campaigns in Spain, He has been sponsored personaly by them for most of his career as can be seen on his previous bikes in the lower classes, his Moviestar 250 had repsol bellypans. I read that it was repsol that forced honda to put Dani on Bridgestones mid season this year, You can never underestimate the influence of sponsors in racing and the power they have when they threaten to pull their money out! When Honda began testing the 800 2 years ago it was clear that it was one of the smallest bikes in the paddock, it appeared to fit Dani perfectly and Nicky looked awkward and uncomfortable on it, ironically this was the day after Nicky won the championship!

Hi racer I only posted the link to the master bike article because those are the bikes us mere mortals can go into a shop and buy, all to often world super bikes, AMA, or British super bikes get brought into conversations but the bikes in the championships are the equivalent of the standard road bike with 100 grand thrown at it, then a world class pro racer to ride it! Going back on topic, by training/cornering bike do you mean for complete beginners or for everyone? As for beginners I have been told that Suzuki SV 650s are really good for building confidence! The bike that has claimed awards for years for being the fastest cornering road bike is the Aprilia RSV1000R factory! Note that is the factory version and comes as standard with Ohlins suspension all round and every unsprung weight saver possible such as lightweight marchesini wheels among others which all contribute to it being a good cornering bike! unfortunately none of the other manufacturer's seem to bring out higher spec bikes like aprilia, except Ducati!

2006, final race of the year at Valencia Bayliss won the last ever 990cc race standing in for Sete Gibernau, he never really got the credit he deserved as this race was to be the first time the championship was decided in the final race for, well a very long time! All eyes were on 2 guys that day Nicky Hayden and Valentino Rossi, Hayden had been wiped out by team mate Dani Pedrosa the previous week in Portugal making him go into the final race 2nd in the championship. This was going to be the best race ever, Rossi fell off for no apparent reason in lap 5 and Nicky took 3rd to win the title, Ducati took 1st and 2nd with Bayliss and Caparossi! That was back when moto gp used to be exciting, it took a year and a half until Laguna Seca this year to get that excitement back! Also James Toseland is riding with tech 3 Yamaha again in moto gp next year!

Hay Alex welcome to the forum, I dont know if you are aware but the UK school does 2 day camps in Spain which include hotels!

For sure its a team effort, but I think there are riders that are educated in bike setup and how a bike works, and there are guys that are mega fast but dont know why, the problem is the same guys can be slow some weeks and dont know why either, these guys depend on a good crew putting a well set bike under them, whereas the educated guys can work with there crew to get that bike the best it can possibly be for the race. I saw an interview with one of Rossi's crew and he said that Rossi is selective with the problems he tells them he is having, he may have 5 problems but only tells his crew about the worst one, they then focus all their resources on sorting out that problem, once fixed he will tell them of another problem, come race day his bike may never be perfect but any major problems are eliminated and he can ride around the minor ones! Is a well known big name crew chief necessary if you have an educated rider and a team of mechanics dedicated to getting the bike as good as it can be, Dovisioso achieved amazing results this year on a non factory bike with a crew he has worked with for years!

this link should help answer the question! http://www.cycleworld.com/article.asp?sect...;article_id=861

The strange thing is that no one has ever won both the motogp and world superbike titles yet, I think that will change in the next few years. I am not a great Rossi fan but you have to respect his ability, He has won world championships in 125cc, 250cc, 500cc, 990cc and 800cc, thats a record that can never be beaten! Colin Edwards was great to watch in SBK but has yet to win in motogp, and has had the opportunity to race on championship winning bikes. Nicky Hayden did well going from AMA onto the 990cc gp bike winning rookie of the year and became a consistant podium finisher to eventually win the championship, unfortunately its taken nearly 2 seasons to find a riding style to suit the 800s. its not only different classes though, look a melandri and hopkins they went from top 5 to back of the pack on different bikes in the same class. The list of riders that struggle or succeed on different bikes is endless!

Its a pretty cool series , I was at Rockingham doing level 1 during some of the filming so see myself in it at bits, havent got eps 5 and 6 yet though!

No. We're talking about his leg... LOL!

this may interest you, my CBR600RR vs my friends Ducati 1098! When we went to Rockingham this year for the california superbike school, we had a 500 mile ride to get there, roughly 100 miles of twisties and 400 miles of horrible tyre squaring motorway, By the time we done the twisties we filled up and both used roughly the same, On the motorway however the Ducati's fuel consumption was far superior to my Honda's, whenever we stopped to fill up roughly every 100 to 120 miles my Honda would take about 1.5 litres more than the Ducati to fill up! I thought this must have been caused by my 600cc engine having to sit at a constant 7000 revs whereas his big twin 1098 was probably only at a constant 3500 revs to sit at the same speed as me! I am getting about 40 mpg roughly but my bike is tuned with a pc3 and setup on a dyno, Here in the UK we dont have 87 octane, only 95 and shell sell 100 0ctane fuel but 87 sounds really low! I would have thought that a higher octane fuel would give better consumption!

Rossi pulls his underwear out of his ass at the end of the warm up lap at every race for as long as I can remember, I ts one of his trademark things he does he is very superstitious and does a number of rhings before the race, As for the sticking the leg out before a turn, that is not a new technique and racers have been doing it long before Rossi! If you watch the motogp movie Faster you will see John Hopkins doing it when he was racing his 500cc two stroke against everyone else on 990cc fours!

I got told from an ex racer that a good time to do that would be when you come to the end of a straight, just when you close the throttle and apply the brake you should do a clutchless down shift! Is this correct?

The rear brake is only good for backing it in on track, Nicky Hayden has this mastered and its why he has a huge rear brake disk on his Moto Gp bike compared to Dani Pedrosa! You use the rear brake hard enough not to lock the rear but make the rear wheel rotate slower than the front, stepping the rear of the bike out and pointing the bike more into the turn, it looks mega cool when done properly but probably eats into your $10 of attention right when you need it most! http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=l8dMRtxjoN0

You are right Racer it is a crazy tight odd little track, that is my local track, infact it is the only track within 100s of miles of me so where I do most of my trackdays, I am planning on traveling further afield next year for track days though! Here is a list of Leons results for the year Thruxton: 5th, 4th Oulton Park: 3rd, 3rd Brands Hatch GP: 5th, 3rd Donington Park: 5th, 4th Snetterton: 1st, 2nd Mallory Park: DNF, 8th Oulton Park: DNF, DNF Knockhill: 5th, 8th Cadwell Park: 4th, 4th Croft: 1st, 5th Knockhill can be a tough track, the guys are lapping in under 50 seconds and with only 1 left hand turn the tyres take some abuse on the right hand side but as you say, I guess he must have been having an off week that week!

I guess there's the definitive answer I was looking for (LOL) Yeah same here!

Hey Ace, Did you know Leon was one of our students? He has come over a few times and trained with us here. Love to see him win BSB next year too! Finally got to watch WSB last night, Bayliss is the champ. Haga was pretty impressive though. C Yeah Cobie I knew he was a student with you guys, I think that Andy Ibbot works with him over here too! We have a TV program on at the moment called Superbike School UK and it shows a little bit of him training Thomas Luthi and Leon Camier! The program is interesting to me as I was there doing my level 1 on one of the days of filming!

Hi Cobie if your interested in catching up with the WSB check out there site here http://www.worldsbk.com/pubb_EN/index.php you can watch all the races from the season free, check out race 2 at donington park, that is all about throottle control, its amazing! B

I have always been a Nicky Hayden fan mostly due to the way he rides, its exciting to watch him getting his bike sideways! In 2006 he won the championship purely by consistency and hard work, other riders may win by dominating but where's the entertainment value in that! His style always seemed to suit the 990cc bike better, I am looking forward to next year to see what he can do with the big Ducati, Over here at a national level I am a Leon Camier fan, anyone that says you have to be small to be competitive in racing has yet to see Leon in action, I wouldn't bet against him winning the BSB championship next year!