Jaybird180

Mystery solved! I fell so much better. I did too until I found out that street tires don't get up to 180F.

Okay, great. I'll watch my mailbox for the Feb issue.

When someone shutters or wrecks in front of me ...and he shuttered the bike Hub; What does "shuttering" a bike mean? Kevin When my friend was turning the bike in the right hander, the bike wobbled so bad that I could see his handlebars wiggle. He had to straighten the bike out for a second and get off the gas to regain control. Is it easier to control a tankslapper on the gas or off? Thats a good question, I have only had a full on serious stop to stop tank slapper twice before, both times happened at the exit of a turn and I just kept on the throttle and drove out of it, I was told before that by chopping the throttle it drives your front tyre into the ground making it harder to recover whereas if you give it more throttle you will lighten the front, effectively wheelieing the bike making it easier to regain control! Sounds like you answered the question to me.

When someone shutters or wrecks in front of me ...and he shuttered the bike Hub; What does "shuttering" a bike mean? Kevin When my friend was turning the bike in the right hander, the bike wobbled so bad that I could see his handlebars wiggle. He had to straighten the bike out for a second and get off the gas to regain control. Is it easier to control a tankslapper on the gas or off?

contact your tyre supplier! lol only joking, Dave Moss did a video, within it is info that I use myself now, I am sure you will have seen it as it was yourself that directed me to it, if you go to the catalist suspension website there is an interesting section on incorrect tyre wear,what to look for etc, but in there they say that you should set your cold pressures at a point where when heated up it should increase by 4-6 psi e.g. over 6 add air under 4 remove air, this will bring your tyre into its best, correct operating temp, Will posted a similar figure to this in another tread on here before, I personaly aim for 4 psi increase, like all suspension adjustments this will vary from track to street, sport riding to touring and of course if you take a passenger, and it will mess with your head, so get a good quality pressure gauge and prepare for some trial and error! I just 'talked' to Dave. He said that street tires generally don't see 180F because they're designed for longevity vs grip. I'll checkout the website. Thanks for reminding me of what I'd obviously overlooked.

When someone shutters or wrecks in front of me (I've only had one guy wreck right in front of me) I have a moment when I sort of watch what's going on. Then I quickly refocus. Can't help it though. I was cruising behind a friend who I am SLIGHTLY faster than. After following a while I wanted to pass so I could pick up my pace through a section I was a lot faster on. He was just fast enough to make it difficult for me to find an opening. We took a big left, followed by another fast left, then into a tight right, and he shuttered the bike, and I watched him for just a second before getting back on it and taking advantage of his small mishap. It's like watching a disaster. I can't turn away. I know what you mean hubbard. I've had a similar experience. I was behind one of the newer R6's. I could only keep up in his draft, but I knew that if I got in front, like sessions prior, I could leave him in the dust. We go down the straight and I catch his draft and was closing, but it was in the braking zone and I decided to back off. He hesitated turning in and I decided to go underneath. Just when I was about to, he turned in and showed me the outside. "I can make it around the outside", I thought and began going for it. He hesitated AGAIN. I decided to abandon and went off track while he turned in again and made T1. I suppose if I didn't focus on him, I could have made T1 irrespective of what he was doing...I guess???

Everyone has questions about tires. The advice given is 'contact your tire supplier' or words to that effect. I have looked online for published tire info and it seems to be in obscurity. Where can I go to find information like: Cold/ Hot pressures Pressure rise How to evaluate tires I don't have an expert at my side and so have to find online info and then try and talk about it with educated people, but I don't yet have the vocabulary. Dave Moss did a video where the subject was discussed, but I couldn't identify some of the things he pointed out. Can someone here help get me pointed in the right direction?

I can go for that. Weather + cold tires + rider error (for the conditions).

T1 discusses being a wet noodle when you crash.

OK, that is not a warm day, tires could easily not been up to temp, especially if you were going at a slower pace for the rider behind. Remember, tires at full operating temp are hot--didn't Will say it was 180+? AND there was a little front brake on (maybe just a little). If you had said the bike went down AFTER you had reached full lean angle, we might have another issue, but you said right as you started to turn in. When the bike slid, did you recall the front going away from you, or the back coming around a little? Do you recall what the bike did right after it ejected you? C Bike kept going straight while on it's side. Fell on the left side (I was turning left...or wanted to at least) But, I didn't have eyes on it until it was in the grass. The rear came around about 30 degrees...counterclockwise direction. I'm sure the frame sliders (vortex) had an effect on the slide (was full of mud/grass as was the bodywork). So, you're thinking cold tires and brakes on? Wowsers!!! I don't think I've ever felt my tires at 180F, but I also haven't tried. I'll try and feel the rubber next time I get in the gas with my car.

Level 2. We need to get some of the Level 1 stuff in place first, as it relates. C YIPEEEEEEEEEEE

This was at the trail end of the summer...an autumn type day, so I'd say temps in the low 70s maybe. We'd been on the road about 10-15 mins at this time. I did have a (worse) comfort braking habit back then. If I had brake on, then it was unconscious. However, I had been aware that brakes/steering (generally) don't mix well (you can thank MSF for that). When I went down, I'd been scratching my head as to why and I didn't consider front lockup as a candidate, but I'm willing to put a question mark beside it. It is possible I tried feeling my way through the turn with brake I performed the brake/down while vertical just before beginning the ess section. Probably past an ideal TP. I was also positioned in the center of the lane. My focus was shifting between the 2nd and third parts of the ess and the entry. I was probably looking 10 feet infront of the bike when I performed brake/down and then quickly shifted my vision further, countersteered and fell until impact.

Do you use any frtont in the dirt? My first 2 off track excursions have demonstrated the degree of difficulty in proper application of front brake on grass. I've learned my lesson well enough that I can STOMP on the rear, get lightly on the front and get the bike pointed back to tarmac while clearing for traffic. Makes sense. One thing not all try and do, is get into the front as much as possible before running off, can often scrub a lot of speed by doing that, then of course, let off the front when you get into the grass. O yeah, forgot about that part. I was told that the rear brake has only 2 purposes: Slowing if you get off track and passing tech

OK--so thinking back, what is your perception of which end went first, front or the back, or both at the same time? 2nd question: did you have ANY throttle on, or ANY brake on? CF Hey JB, Did you get a chance to answer these, did I miss it? CF I'm reasonably sure the rear didn't break away (no rpm rise nor did the rear come around) What's left is front or both, but I'm not certain how to tell the difference. I'd just completed the brake/down and had initiated the countersteer. The bike responded by leaning me into the ground.

Do you use any frtont in the dirt? My first 2 off track excursions have demonstrated the degree of difficulty in proper application of front brake on grass. I've learned my lesson well enough that I can STOMP on the rear, get lightly on the front and get the bike pointed back to tarmac while clearing for traffic.

Does anyone know where the forum button is to subscribe to a thread without replying?

OK--so thinking back, what is your perception of which end went first, front or the back, or both at the same time? 2nd question: did you have ANY throttle on, or ANY brake on? CF Hey JB, Did you get a chance to answer these, did I miss it? CF I think we were cross posting http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.ph...rt=0#entry10081

Sorry to hear about your crash Tweek Jeremy- That was a heck of a speech. I got fyar'd up reading it!

I find that erratic changes, with no plan and no process to evaluate the results, are more wasteful and dangerous than too many changes. Or maybe there is a correlation between these two aspects? I usually find myself to be greedy for change, in my quest to improvement. Mostly because track time is so expensive and I want to get the most out of it. My questions: When is there too much change and how should one manage change in riding technique and/or machine setup? How do the big companies make so many changes to a motorcycle every two years and come up with, usually, a better machine? I don't think they have the time to do one change at a time and look at the results, or we'd still be riding the 1999 models today. Very good Questions. In my line of work we use a term called, "change management". Here's an article about the subject http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Change_management

I never said anything about being brave. As a matter of fact, I was of the understanding that you were backed off so the other rider could keep up. Don't know what you're talking about. Sorry, but you have me at a loss. Thanks for that tire warming article though. Good stuff. Yes, you're right! I was backing off. But I backed off from a moderate pace...nothing fancy. Probably doing a max speed of 40-45mph in the ess sections. I think I got up to about 60 on the short straight sections during the whole road. The guy didn't come off like a total newb, but he was really tip toeing and it was breaking my rhythm to keep looking back and wait a few corners for him to catch up. I've since been through there many times. I think about it when I come up on that particular section. But I'd like to know what caused it, so I can fully put it behind me.

OK--so thinking back, what is your perception of which end went first, front or the back, or both at the same time? 2nd question: did you have ANY throttle on, or ANY brake on? CF Based on the way the bike slid, I'd say the front gave way. No brake on and throttle was on.

OK, that one is new to me. I thought the tire heat spread throughout the tire when the bike was warming up. I'd always been told that riders who lean their bikes back and forth are messing up the constant friction that riding straight produced. http://www.sportrider.com/ride/rss/146_081...ires/index.html

I can see what you mean HUBBARD...but I wasn't being brave and I don't have any other way of describing how the crash happened. I just fell. I turned in and BLAM! I was on the ground. This is what is perplexing. I know that things don't "just happen", that there's always a pathology however, even in hindsight I don't see it. That's why I'm consulting the wisdom of the collective.

1- The bike continued to lean past the point I wanted it to. I didn't realize what was happening until I was sliding on my shoulder. I was looking down the road at the time. 2- It was a moderate pace and it felt like I had good traction prior. We'd been riding about 10 minutes. After the crash I got back on and continued without further incident.

With the information provided, it doesn't lead me any closer to a diagnosis. As I recall, the downshift was completed prior to my tipping in. But it could have been sloppy, leading to the (reported) lockup.