DUNLOP-RTS

There is an arrow on the side of the tire for a reason. I would recommend using it. Question back to you. If the sides of a tire are worn out, but the center is still good, do you ride in a straight line till its totally worn out or do you put on a new tire because you need the sides more than you need the center?

I must agree with Acebobby on this one. There is a lot "what if's" involved here. A lot of questions about the past. with all the variables involved there are trillions of possible outcomes. Should we now also take every race and throw those variables at them and determine who would have won if the traction control was at a different setting? or if Lawson was on an N-Tec, or Roberts rode a Kawasaki. then after we figure out all the possible outcomes for that race, we then move on to another race to determine all the possible outcomes for it? And then all the outcomes for all the possible series, AMA , MotoGP, World Superbike etc. Seems like a lot of living in the past and "what if". I will make this easy. to answer the starting question, after exhaustive research and speaking with everyone in the motorcycle industry, draining 3 sets of batteries in my calculator, I have the answer: 36.764% from tire development. 22.457% from traction control. 2.317% from chain development 3.456% from aerodynamics of bodywork 25.573% from engine development 5.889% from nutrition improvements -2.456% riders loss of reading skills 6.000% margin of error These facts are not in dispute. My question is this- Considering the increase in bandwidth of the internet over the last 10 years, if everyone had a current computer back in the day and was given broadband to replace their dial-up, how many more posts would there be on the top 5 threads of this forum?

Hi richie, I'll let our friend steve from dunlop tell you the technical differences, and then I'll give you my opinion on how they both ride, as we use/have used both of these tyres the last couple of years (sportsmart this year), and comprehensively in both dry and wet, colder and very warm conditions in the UK. They're both great though, the sportsmart frankly remarkable for what it is and how we abuse them at the school. Bullet Bullet, Lets hear your first hand experience with them, I am interested in the feedback. Be specific as to which model and location of manufacture along with availability for a given region. Keeping in mind not all models are available in all regions. Then I can chime in.

2007 technology. OK to use, if you are cool with that technology version. That was the tire before the D209GPA Spec AMA tire.

We are real mad now. Cobie what's his address? I'm getting on a flight now to Denmark. Or better yet, who cares, we will beat them on the racetrack, let them speak all they want. Its all good Kai, more information is better. (and now for a little bench racing and smack talking) Besides, when the Pirelli guys get their product working at its best, our victory is even sweeter. Since this is a Pirelli thread, I'll post this here but I'd like some feedback from Steve if you'll venture a guess on this. I've been a pretty big fan of Dunlops ever since I did my first track day with the school on Qualifiers. I love the new Q2s and plan on sticking with them for the long term but I currently have a couple of sets of Supercorsa SC2s in the rack. I got them super cheap from a racer friend of mine and thought they'd be good to have for the occasional really hot day that we get here down south. He worked the right side pretty good (no longer symmetrical) but I figured they were good for a track day or two at my so-so pace(maybe flip the rear?). My question now is, which will likely stick better as they currently are? I realize that the thinner used Pirelli tires will have less grip than before but they were initially a grippier race tire. Eventually I'd like to try the D211GPAs but my speed doesn't warrant the expense right now and my bike is also pulling street and track duty so the Q2s are a better compromise for me without having to swap them out all the time. Thanks for any info or opinions. Cliff, Its hard to really give you a clear answer without the tires being right in front of me. When it comes to used tires, "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder". You will need to make the judgment yourself. Some points to consider: Is my setup good with the tire I have now, and is a different tire going to be a big deal to change the setup and is it worth it for a used tire? Is the worn side of this used tire going to magically give me great grip now that I flipped the tire? Is the savings on running the worn used tire going to outweigh the uncertainty I will now have as ride on my fun track day? Thus taking away on the fun factor of my track day?

See this post for your answer: http://forums.superb...indpost&p=20754

Wet conditions are different. It would be unfair to compare dry race tires with sport touring tires in the wet. That is apples and oranges. How about compare full rain tires in full down pour? Wait, now I am getting silly, that's just not going to happen in the real world. lets keep to fundamentals. You are correct, grip would be reduced the colder it gets. But lets keep with reality, the comparison is race tires and street tires in regular conditions. The idea was not to promote riding your race tires in sub freezing conditions.

Hi richinio, I'm not Steve, but he has previously explained that there are different tyres available in different parts of the world. But judging from the contents of the links, the tyre in the first link (Sportmax Q2) is a US tyre, while the second tyre (Qualifier II) is available in UK/Europe. Hope this helps, Kai Right you are Kai. Thanks! Steve's new sidekick = Kai

We are real mad now. Cobie what's his address? I'm getting on a flight now to Denmark. Or better yet, who cares, we will beat them on the racetrack, let them speak all they want. Its all good Kai, more information is better. (and now for a little bench racing and smack talking) Besides, when the Pirelli guys get their product working at its best, our victory is even sweeter.

I am a little confused. Correct me if I read your question wrong. But why would you change your rims? 2008 R6 (along with most every 600cc bike since the late 90's) has a 5.5x17 rear rim. There is no need to change to a different size rim. Please clarify. Also please clarify which D211 you speak of. D211GPA or D211GP. see this post for clarification: http://forums.superb...indpost&p=20491 steve, with regard to the rims, i read it as having a spare set of rims with the 211's mounted up for the track. i'm guessing that he's talking about having a set of q2's mounted up for street riding and then switching to wheels with the 211's mounted up for track riding? Thats exactly what I meant by changing rims, one set for street and one for track. Keeping in mind that using the D211GPA's ( which I was refering to ) for occasional country road/ canyon rides would not be good to do, based on others opinions that DOT's don't reach proper temps being used this way, and therefore are not as safe, as say using the Q2's, which have a broader usable temp range? Just bringing this up as maybe another tire myth. Sorry Steve, I missed the thread on choosing between track tires, and your response seems to pretty much answer my question about this. I guess this is sort of a chicken and egg kind of situation, the perverbial when do we know when were ready to step up to better tires, suspension, ect ect. Thanks again. Mike The MYTH that race tires are unsafe on the street We all hear about it. "I crashed because I did not heat up my race tires on the street". This basic story is told and we all think that the rider is a victim and "those bad race tires" put him on his head. Simply put its a myth. For legal reasons I am only going to speak about DOT approved racing tires here, not tires "For off road use only" (slicks). --------------- A race DOT tire will stick as good or better than a street tire all through the heat range, from room temperature to fully heated. Sounds simple and it is. So why do we hear these bad reports of race tires being unsafe? Because unaware riders would like to BLAME something other than themselves for miscalculating and misjudging a situation. They make a mistake and instead of saying they screwed up, they blame the tires. Of course all the 1000's of miles they rode on the street with their used race takeoffs and never had a problem, they don't rave about the savings, traction and the fun they had. They only complain when its an easy scapegoat. So how did we get here? what makes the rider "Think" it was his cold race tire? Its because his expectation of what the tire should do and what it did do are different. Example: Lets make a range 0-100. 0 being no grip at all (like baby oil on a blow up pool) 100 being full grip (Velcro). 50 street tire at room temp 60 street tire hot 52 race tire at room temp 80 race tire hot If the rider only rides on the street he will be accustomed to his 50 grip level and ride within those boundaries. Then the rider goes on the track and gets accustomed to receiving 80 grip on the track, with his tires hot. His sense of speed is now re calibrated to this new level of grip. Then he goes on the street, if he rode with his street "calibration" he would not ride outside the box and all would be fine. but... If he rides with his race "calibration" he will ride at 60-65 with the expectation all is well, when in fact the tire can only provide 52. He blames the tire, when in fact he would have lost traction with a street tire even earlier. At the end of the day its not the tire that is the problem, it's the rider thinking he was Nicky Hayden on the street and finding out he is not. This story gets told over and over and after awhile the message goes from "don't ride past the grip level of your tires" to "race tires are bad". Big difference, and a good example of how urban myths can transform from one concept to a totally different one.. The Q2, which is a top of the line street tire, gets its technology directly from racing tires. There are many similarities in construction compounding and tread extrusion, yet riders are not claiming they fell because of a high performance tire. Additionally DOT race tires are DOT (Department of Transportation) approved. They meet all the same safety requirements of all other DOT approved tires. The best advice is to not ride like a fool on the street with ANY TIRE. That is the common denominator, don't be a squid. Drawing from my personal experience, I use race takeoffs all the time on my street bike, I'm a big boy and get moving very well, and have no issues. I have over 100K testing on sport touring bikes using development compounds (race compounds), some city, some mountain and some highway, never a fall or problem. Back in the day I rode my race bike on the street (after putting back in street trim) with race tires and never a problem. I am not promoting that everyone use race tires on the street, there are economic reason for using a longer lasting street tire. I am saying there is nothing "Unsafe" about race tires (excluding specialty tires like Daytona). I am sure I will get hate mail on this one: I am sure you can find the rider that swears up and down he was going slow and it was the race tires. But for every 1 of those we can find 50 street riders that fell on street tires and don't know why they fell, but don't blame the street tire. We can only learn from our mistakes when we know what mistake we make. Assigning BLAME is nonproductive.

thanks, steve. the sizes available for the q2 is what really prompted my question. i'm pretty sure that steve will tell you to run the 190/55. i've got a feeling that the only reason they offer the 180 is for dealers or shops that will NOT install a 190 tire on a bike that the manufacturer calls for a 180. i'm interested to see what steve has to say about this. Tom, See Dunlop's fitment chart for the Q2 here: http://www.dunlopmot...tire.asp?id=108 As you can see the Q2 180/55 and the 190/55 will fit both a 5.5x17 and 6.0x17 rims (600,750 and 1000's). Forget the 190/50x17 Q2 for performance riding, its a flatter center and better suited for regular urban street riding and not aggressive cornering. Q2 on a 600, I would start with the 180/55. Since it will be closest to your stock chassis settings. If you are willing to make small chassis adjustments (and looking for a future in track riding or racing), I would go with the 190/55. The 190/55 Q2 is the same width and height as the 190/55 D211GPA race tire, thus making the transition easier from Q2 to D211GPA. Both are good choices in the Q2 for track days. steve, i'm definitely going with the 190/55. i'm still on the fence with regard to the q2 or the 211 gpa. of course i want the best tire for little money and i want it to last forever...lol...i know there are a lot of variables involved but how many track days can i expect to get out of the q2's or the 211gpa's? i do have a spare set of wheels so i am tempted to try both. if the life expectancy is fairly close i will just go with the 211's. would one tire be better than the other for the colder temps at the beginning and end of the season verses the heat of the middle of summer? what chassis adjustments would you recommend for the 190/55? thanks again for being available here for us to pick your brain. i really appreciate it. tom Tom, Its really hard to tell you exactly how many days you would get from each tire. there are just to many variables. It is like asking someone how long it takes to clean their room. The best thing to do is try it and compare. I know that may not help you when you might be on a budget, but if you are going to play this game, you are going to use tires. So try both and gauge the tire usage for yourself, on your bike, with your riding style and your suspension settings. Only then will you know which is best for you. On you question for what to change on the 190/55. let me ask which tire are you going from and which are you going to. Give me that data and I will talk about how to change the ride height in another thread. ha ha, i got a good chuckle from the cleaning your room analogy. i hear what you're saying. as far as tires, i'm coming from michelin pilot power 2ct in the 120/70, 180/55 flavor. i was able to get 8 days out of them at about 1k track miles. see my first post for the tracks i rode. the front still has quite a bit of rubber on it but the rear is getting close to the wear bars on the edges. going to the q2 and or 211gpa in the 190/55. Changing the ride height when you switch to different tires. Assuming everything is perfect on your setup (which generally it is not, but we will assume this for this drill), you may need to adjust the ride height when changing from 1 style of tire to the other. First find out the tire you have now, the tire you are going FROM. Find the diameters of these tires. Then find out the diameter of the tires you are going TO. Subtract them, then divide by 2 (because radius is 1/2 of Diameter) and that is how much ride height you need to change. Lets walk through this simply: Michelin 2CT- 120/70x17 is 606mm in Diameter 180/55x17 is 640mm in Diameter Dunlop D211GPA- 120/70x17 is 605mm in Diameter 190/55x17 is 643mm in Diameter Now do your math- FRONT: 606-605 = 1 mm in diameter (this is how much larger one tire is than the other), Divide by 2 for radius (this is because you are concerned with, from the axle to the ground height, the radius) = +0.5mm ride height REAR: 640-643 = -3mm. 1/2 of -3 = -1.5mm The results are- +0.5mm front -1.5mm rear In a perfect world you would then raise the front 0.5 mm, and lower the rear 1.5mm and the bike will have the same ride height as it did with the old set of tires. In my opinion, taking into consideration most riders do not have a perfect setup, its easier to not make a change if its only a couple of mm different. Put the tires on and ride, then make small changes as is needed for the chassis. So to keep it real, there is no need to make these small changes, immediately, if you are not riding on the track record. As a track day rider or amateur racer, don't think your setup is so perfect that you need to make a 1mm change, instantly. ask yourself how many times you made a ride height change with your old tires and you will soon realize you would be splitting hairs. After you make the tire change and ride, then you can make small changes to see if it helps or not. (just because your ex girlfriend was blond doesn't mean you must always date a blond, add some flavor, try different things) Certainly if you were a seasoned rider and had street tires and race tire you want back and forth with, you would be familiar with your ride height changes and if it made a difference to you, then you would make those every time you swapped back and forth, if you felt the need.

thanks, steve. the sizes available for the q2 is what really prompted my question. i'm pretty sure that steve will tell you to run the 190/55. i've got a feeling that the only reason they offer the 180 is for dealers or shops that will NOT install a 190 tire on a bike that the manufacturer calls for a 180. i'm interested to see what steve has to say about this. Tom, See Dunlop's fitment chart for the Q2 here: http://www.dunlopmot...tire.asp?id=108 As you can see the Q2 180/55 and the 190/55 will fit both a 5.5x17 and 6.0x17 rims (600,750 and 1000's). Forget the 190/50x17 Q2 for performance riding, its a flatter center and better suited for regular urban street riding and not aggressive cornering. Q2 on a 600, I would start with the 180/55. Since it will be closest to your stock chassis settings. If you are willing to make small chassis adjustments (and looking for a future in track riding or racing), I would go with the 190/55. The 190/55 Q2 is the same width and height as the 190/55 D211GPA race tire, thus making the transition easier from Q2 to D211GPA. Both are good choices in the Q2 for track days. steve, i'm definitely going with the 190/55. i'm still on the fence with regard to the q2 or the 211 gpa. of course i want the best tire for little money and i want it to last forever...lol...i know there are a lot of variables involved but how many track days can i expect to get out of the q2's or the 211gpa's? i do have a spare set of wheels so i am tempted to try both. if the life expectancy is fairly close i will just go with the 211's. would one tire be better than the other for the colder temps at the beginning and end of the season verses the heat of the middle of summer? what chassis adjustments would you recommend for the 190/55? thanks again for being available here for us to pick your brain. i really appreciate it. tom Tom, Its really hard to tell you exactly how many days you would get from each tire. there are just to many variables. It is like asking someone how long it takes to clean their room. The best thing to do is try it and compare. I know that may not help you when you might be on a budget, but if you are going to play this game, you are going to use tires. So try both and gauge the tire usage for yourself, on your bike, with your riding style and your suspension settings. Only then will you know which is best for you. On you question for what to change on the 190/55. let me ask which tire are you going from and which are you going to. Give me that data and I will talk about how to change the ride height in another thread.

I am a little confused. Correct me if I read your question wrong. But why would you change your rims? 2008 R6 (along with most every 600cc bike since the late 90's) has a 5.5x17 rear rim. There is no need to change to a different size rim. Please clarify. Also please clarify which D211 you speak of. D211GPA or D211GP. see this post for clarification: http://forums.superb...indpost&p=20491

Does Tire Temperature Count? You are placing too much emphasis on the running temperature of the tire. If the rider is happy with the stability and the grip of the tire, don't go changing the pressure. its that simple. Don't go changing things because your new tool had a number on it (meaning your tire gauge had some arbitrary temperature reading on it). Dunlop does not publish a tire temperature range. This is mostly because riders would drastically fluctuate their tire pressure in an attempt to achieve a certain tire temperature (so they can be just like their favorite champion racer). But they can never achieve that temperature with the lap-times they are running (much like a cat chasing its tail). Also with the lower cost and increased availability of temperature gauges, you see riders wanting to play with their new tool, because these tool manufacturers have now place a big emphasis on tire temperature. This overemphasis can have very bad results. Teams may monitor temperature, but it is not so they can make changes to the pressure. Its for chassis setup and other reasons. They have more options available to them and may be interested in data for reasons other than tire pressure changes. Lets concern ourselves with the track day rider and regional racers needs. Car racing is different than bike racing. The data does not always transfer from on to the other. Much like Las Vegas, "What happens at a car race, should stay at a car race". You may also find helpful information here: http://forums.superb...indpost&p=20465 Stability: Is how the tire feels to the rider. Does it flex or wallow. Does it respond when turned. Does it feel overly harsh. Does it roll over bumps well or feel stiff. Things like this.

31 front, 28 Rear for the D208GPA. D208GPA is a bit of an older tire. consider getting a new tire. The N-Tec rears are run at low pressure because they were designed to run that way. They provide much more traction, while still being stable. You cannot run just any tire at low pressure without it becoming unstable. The construction must be designed for that purpose. http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=2536&view=findpost&p=20743

Hmmm... this is an interesting consideration I hadn't thought of- being able to change them would allow me to use track tires on the track (D211GPA's) and street tires for the street (Q2's). Do people who have one bike for street and track do this often? Yes, this is done for those wanting to go from street to track often. Also some riders will get an extra set of rims and just swap rims.

I would NEVER, NEVER use that product for a motorcycle. Better to do it right. Balance it the right way. Keep away from the snake oil. I am sure their advertising looks very convincing, but make no mistake, it does not balance the tire. Why would anyone want something rubbing the inside of the tire? That's very unsafe. Yes you may not have an issue at slow speeds, but when you get going you will have issues. End of story.

No reason at all to not do it yourself. But taking to consideration all the costs involved on both sides. Everyone is different, some riders have the $ and don't want to mess with it. Others are real hands on and want to do it themselves. Its a personal choice. Also consider doing it on a barrel with tire irons. Its even less expensive than a tire machine and if you take your time and do it right you will have no issues. Its a personal choice. Just don't neglect to balance the tire. Its an important part of mounting your tires.

Different tires are made for different markets. Different advertising programs are also targeted for different markets. I don't claim to know each model of tire that is released in all other markets around the world. Concern yourself with what is available to you in your region. I am certain that the top of the line Dunlop offered in your region would be a top performer. Trying to compare the offering of 1 region to the offering of another region will send you off the deep end. Much like bike models, what is offered in UK or EU is not what is offered in the USA. This does not mean that the manufacturer is trying to short change 1 region, its a matter of what the customer in each is going to buy. Often they are the same bike with a different color scheme. So consider if you are in the UK and the SportSmart is available to you, then try them. If you are in the USA, the offering is the Q2, so try them. You have not tried either, so stop reading everyone's evaluation of the tires and try them for yourself and you be the judge. Don't think you are getting short changed if you read the rave reviews from one country and can't get that tire. Get the tire that is available. Dunlop does not make a "good" tire for one county and "lousy" tire for another. The products are constantly getting better. When one factory makes a better tire the other factories use this advancement for their next model. Also consider the cost. When you ship a tire manufactured in UK to the USA, there are shipping charges and currency exchange rate that need to be factored in. Additionally, if you are in the USA, you must have read the rave reviews the Q2 has received. I can't imagine you are holding off on trying the top of the line Q2 because you hear the grass is greener on the other side.

tire pressures(30F/34R) are going to be fine for that bike on the street. There is no need to vary from that for that bike.

Certainly you should try the N-Tec slicks. I'm not going to say anything bad about the competition, but honestly, if you have been hearing good things about the Dunlop line, you deserve the opportunity to try them for yourself? Send me a PM and I will be glad to help you with your options, personally.

It was addressed. its under the "Maybe, maybe, maybe" section. I was pointing out there are many things going on other than the tires, one of those is certainly the suspension. As for your street bike. don't get to far off into the deep end trying to setup the suspension for a street bike, without first finding a good tire. if you are wanting more performance, the first thing you need to do is wear out the original tires and get new higher performance tires. That should solve your problem.

23 rear hot on the warmers is not a typo. we have been running lower pressures on the N-Tec style construction tire for many years. The D209GPA, D211GPA, D211GP and the current N-Tec slicks all have the N-Tec style construction, which we designed to run with low pressure. These pressures are not recommended for street tires like the Q2, and are only recommended for the Dunlop racing tires mentioned above. that's probably why you have not heard of it. I would ask your tire rep for your area the recommended pressures. Find the guy that sells your brand at your track and ask him. He is the best source for the correct tire pressure since he is the one that must make his product work there. You can always call me and I will help you with Dunlops.

thanks, steve. the sizes available for the q2 is what really prompted my question. i'm pretty sure that steve will tell you to run the 190/55. i've got a feeling that the only reason they offer the 180 is for dealers or shops that will NOT install a 190 tire on a bike that the manufacturer calls for a 180. i'm interested to see what steve has to say about this. Tom, See Dunlop's fitment chart for the Q2 here: http://www.dunlopmot...tire.asp?id=108 As you can see the Q2 180/55 and the 190/55 will fit both a 5.5x17 and 6.0x17 rims (600,750 and 1000's). Forget the 190/50x17 Q2 for performance riding, its a flatter center and better suited for regular urban street riding and not aggressive cornering. Q2 on a 600, I would start with the 180/55. Since it will be closest to your stock chassis settings. If you are willing to make small chassis adjustments (and looking for a future in track riding or racing), I would go with the 190/55. The 190/55 Q2 is the same width and height as the 190/55 D211GPA race tire, thus making the transition easier from Q2 to D211GPA. Both are good choices in the Q2 for track days.

Bobby, My recommendation to try different tires is when a rider is unsure he has the best tire. Trying other styles to compare is always a good direction. You don't need to try all 20 different brands/styles, just the top few. However it sounds like you are trying to switch in the middle of a race event and right before a race. This is not a good idea at all. Making a major change right before a race will most likely have bad results. There is no time to evaluate the tire and make chassis changes. You are better off to test the tire earlier and decide if its going to work well for you, then decide if you want to race on it. I know there are costs involved when making different tire choices. Consider all the non tire costs before you take a risk on wasting your weekend. Fuel, hotel, entry fee, travel, food, consumable parts, all these cost $ and if you make a last minute tire change, which results in a terrible race finish, the price for that set of tires just got real expensive. So choose your tire in a non pressure setting like a track day or Friday practice.