rchase

I agree with the 100% thing being completely subjective. You can't really measure it and sometimes your perception is just wrong. I was never interested in lap times until an envelope arrived one day from the Superbike School. They sent me my lap times as part of the 2 day camp. The second day I was getting really tired and was "taking it easy" loafing around in 3rd gear with no brakes. When I looked at the lap times from both days my fastest times were still on the second day even though I "thought" I was taking it easy. Probably the coolest part of the lap times was that almost every single lap I made improvements.

And here I thought I was the only one that was bloody terrified when approaching a corner at high speed.

Absolutely. The new Dunlop Q3 uses carbon fibre inside to reduce weight. One important thing to keep in mind. One of the bikes I own is an MV Agusta and many of the owners of those bikes go absolutely bonkers trying to shave weight from them using exotic components. There's a huge point of diminishing returns on weight savings even in the unsprung weight category. I have watched people go absolutely insane spending 50K just modifying their bikes for weight savings. At that point the bike becomes so expensive it haunts you out on the track. You can certainly stack the deck in your favor by hitting the "big things" like heavy rotors, fuel tanks, batteries and other big stuff to save weight but don't worry about the small stuff. You pay a lot for the small items and don't get much return for your investment. Probably one of the easiest and logical weight savings things you can do is to get rid of your heavy lead acid battery. Not only can you shave almost 5lbs off the bike you don't have acid that may corrode your frame in a crash and have a bike that you can leave for almost a year without starting. Shorai makes a lithium Ion cell that I have in both my MV and my FZR. My main interest was getting the acid away and being able to have extended storage time but the weight was a nice plus as well.

motogp has very hi end hardware to "solve" this problem decelerating from high speeds to turn 1 : carbon ceramic brake rotors cuts alot of unsprung mass http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsprung_mass the brembo, ohlins and electronics help too, but before all that, it still can be emulated to a degree with enough practice PS. if you up the fueling so much that engine braking is almost nonexistent (its a common setup for racing here) , you can technically chop the throttle straight up and not upset the bike, leaving you with more of the $10 of attention to do other things beneficial to turning I personally use both the front and rear brakes to prep for entry speed You don't have to use the super exotic stuff to save on unsprung mass. I upgraded my FZR400 to more modern EBC contour rotors and while probably not even close to being light as MotoGP rotors made a massive improvement on the bike. I chose the EBC rotors because of their aluminum hubs and less rotor buttons and their Xdrive system. I purchased a set for my R6 as well and am considering some Titanium Rotor bolts to save a little bit of mass there too. Compared to stock steel rotors and their design you can shave almost a pound of weight. With the EBC rotors on my FZR it actually stops like a modern bike now. I used to be big on the rear brake myself as one of my bikes is a big heavy 800# Harley Davidson where it's super helpful to use the rear brake at low speeds. I'm slowly breaking that habit as they don't provide much braking power considering the risk and moving your feet off the correct position of the peg and then back again is distracting to me. Occasionally I'll use the rear to settle the bike but that's becoming less and less frequent. One area where the rear brake is super helpful though is if you have to get off the track in a hurry and head into the grass. I broke something on my FZR the last track day I was on and had to exit the track with a lot of excess speed. I scrubbed off a lot of speed on a chicane and then switched to the rear brake once in the grass to stop the bike.

Make that two people who are interested. Just installed Q3's on my R6.

I'm just reading over this topic and I'm quite impressed actually. In a normal forum a opposite viewpoint like the one that noamkrief shared would be followed with 10 pages of ridicule. Instead we have a rather intelligent discussion about the topic. That's pretty awesome really. In one of the videos an example of body steering was actually explained. When using body steering the act of doing such actually unconsciously produced the counter steering motion. What would be a quite interesting addition to the no BS bike would be a steering head lock that would allow the rider to lock the steering head in a straight forward position and then try to steer. You could even do this with a slightly modified steering damper. Body steering would be even less effective with the front wheel not able to move at all. You would just need a really straight and wide section of track to ride it safely.

So the question was "Do electronics dull us?". Reading over this thread has changed my opinion on this a bit. It all comes down to the way you utilize the electronics. If you depended on them by pinning the throttle constantly or being really aggressive on the brakes and letting the TC and ABS do their magic all the time over time you might get a bit rusty on a manual bike. Most people don't ride like this though (at least I hope!). For most of us the systems are there if we need them but are most of the time unused unless we make a mistake. I never actually thought about the racing issues with ABS though and have done a bit of reading about how ABS systems work on a low level. Fascinating stuff. I had an experience on the track with a non ABS and TC bike where I bungled a gearshift and went way off line on a soaking wet surface and was almost certain I was going to crash. I somehow managed to make it through the turn but I was completely rattled trying to keep my SR's from taking over and crashing me. I had a similar experience on a bike with TC and ABS and the experience was less dramatic and took less energy. On the non ABS and TC bike afterwards I was so rattled that my pace suffered dramatically for the rest of the session. On the TC and ABS bike knowing the systems were there if I needed them again made it so I eventually put the experience mostly out of my mind after half a lap.

F1 engines spit out a lot of fire and this guy has the best job in the world! And of course another favorite. 20K rpm V10.

Welcome to the forum. I also ride a lot of Barber so if you see me out at the track come up and say hi.

I have become more daring over time in what I will work on and what I will save for others. Buying an older bike that's not well supported made this something I had to do. I do my own work where I can but in the process learned a lot about the "finesse" that many mechanics have that make work that's hard for me seem easy. Out of luck I discovered a local racer that owns a shop that specializes in preparing track bikes. I still plan to do some of the easy stuff myself and farm out to him the more critical complex tasks. This year I got super brave and did a front and rear suspension upgrade on my FZR400. I upgraded to FZR600 shocks and bought a Fox Twin Clicker for the rear. I even did the adjustment afterwards for sag and setting the dampening on the shock. This was well outside of my "simple stuff" comfort zone and I learned a TON in the process. Once I got started I realized most of my fears were unfounded.

Here in Atlanta we have halfway decent weather during most of the winter. It does get a bit cold but with a bit of cold weather riding gear and an air cooled Vtwin it's not too bad. I'm not a fan of the cold either especially cruising on the interstates with the wind chill. I do enough riding so I don't really need to "store" any of the bikes. I usually take on big bike projects in the winter. This year I'll be going through my R6 track bike and figuring out what I broke at Barber on my FZR400. This year I also plan on taking some time to reflect on areas I improved and areas that require further refinement in my riding. It's always amusing to review photos and videos when you have had the time to distance yourself from the memories of the day and make more objective comparisons of where you can improve and what you did right. After my review I plan to make a list of strengths and weaknesses to bring with me when I take Level 4 again at Barber this summer. Having a list of my personal goals as well as my strengths and weaknesses will make the time I have with the coaches much more focused and productive.

Welcome.

The most advanced computer found on any of my motorcycles is the fuel injection system. At that only two of my bikes are injected. I get great satisfaction by doing it myself and don't want clever electronics to take away from my ability to learn. When I do something stupid I want the bike to TELL ME right away. Masking my mistake with electronics does not help me learn.

Something to think about. He probably was completely unaware that TC had failed on the bike. The TC systems they run there are on another planet in terms of technical complexity. The TC system is probably aware of position on the track and a lot of other factors to give them the close to the exact limit of grip at any given moment. That level of advancement probably turns the throttle into more of an on off switch. They would not even run a system like that unless it gave them a huge competitive advantage. I don't think his "skill" had much to do with it at all. He was used to the bike operating in a certain manner and it changed instantly without notice. The production bikes mere mortals like us ride are in a completely different world. TC systems have a long way to come to even come close to those systems. Most bikes only have a wheel sensor and have programming similar to (wheel spin = bad = dial back the power). On road bikes many riders can do a lot better than the TC systems just because they have no data on a lot of stuff going on with the bike and are programmed so conservatively. I'm not a fan of the electronics at the moment but I want to keep an open mind about them. One day they may develop a balance between safety and rider feedback that's workable. Cars have come a long way in this regard. It's just a matter of time before we get that advancement on the bikes. Speaking of cars my older Range Rover has an absolutely amazing TC system. In real time it can cut the throttle and even use the brakes on any of the 4 wheels. It's even able to redirect power in real time to wheels that have more traction. It's also completely invisible to me most of the time other than occasionally telling me it's saved my bacon on the center display. There's no way to turn it off and there's really no need to. I have done 4 wheel power slides in low range in thick Alabama mud at nearly full throttle with the TC system being smart enough to realize I was just being a hoon. It even got in on the fun by directing the power where it was having the best effect. The current models are even more advanced with a "Terrain Response System" that is supposed to be able to detect what kind of terrain your on and automatically configure the vehicle in real time. When bikes get that advanced it's going to be quite amazing. Lets just hope they include an off switch and don't compromise the bikes manual ability to operate without the system.

I certainly think so. I have read many of Keith's books. He was doing his scientific analysis of riding technology well before anyone else was doing it. The thing that most impresses me about CSS is every single coach that works for them can not only just tell you "how" to do something. They can tell you the science behind it as well in as much detail as you can absorb. While knowing the science won't make you any faster through the hairpin it helps you understand the mistakes you have made and how to correct them in the future. With that full understanding the self growth is possible rather than trying to blame cold tires or other factors for a crash you simply can't explain.

At the end of the day the most important thing I suppose is something that works well for you. I ride a lot of different machines and can't really count on a slipper clutch being available to me at all times. I certainly prefer having a slipper clutch available as an extra margin of safety in case I have a brain fart even if I don't take full advantage of it. The braking and blipping part is so much easier than you think. There's a "trick" to it. The trick that I have figured out is "why" the back of the brake handles have a curved section on them. That's the area you let your fingers slip over the lever as you blip the throttle. I learned in two parts. I started blipping for downshifts only and then added in braking later on. It's tricky at first but VERY satisfying and quite worth the effort. My MV Agusta sort of forced the issue with me. It sounds absolutely glorious when you do it correctly and absolutely hates you when you don't. Here's a sound bite of someone running an F4 Senna through a tunnel and enjoying some rev matched downshifts before the sonic assault.

Yeah. I'm going to at least try it. Going from 4 control's to 3 is one less thing to think about when entering a turn. If I can get the downshifting without a clutch worked out it will be like having a sequential manual box on the new bike because it has a quick shifter.

Here you are: http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=2115 http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=2522 http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=3507 http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=3594 Thanks! I have actually already clutchless downshifted but only out of desperation. Broke the clutch on my FZR and wanted to verify that all the gears were still there and did it on the stand with a single finger. On the stand with no load its a lot different than on the road or track though.

Any tips on the clutch less downshifting technique? I have yet to try out of respect for my gearbox but would love to if I knew the "correct" technique. One less control being used while braking, downshifting and rev matching sounds like a wonderful thing. P.S. Tried searching and only found this topic.

The track day group I ride with is big on teaching. At first I was a bit concerned this but their coaches actually provide really good feedback of things you can improve on with their primary motivation being safety and preventing accidents. Even though it's not even close to the same level that you get at CSS I find their constructive feedback very helpful. Regarding the Italy and Spain question. It's a cultural thing. Both of those countries have a passion for motorsport and it's ingrained in their culture. When you have families that are starting riders out very early and getting them good training early in life the very best rise to the top in large numbers. This passion for motorsport is passed down from generation to generation and is a shared love in families. My dad was a rally driver and taught me to drive as soon as he could. Because of his passion and teaching I'm a bit of a terror on slick surfaces in a car. If only he had not hated motorcycles so much.

Personally I think that's quite reasonable. I had more experience than that but still found the noise and speed differences between riders to be somewhat distracting at first. Good thing there were world class coaches around handing out earplugs.

A great read. Thank you so much for sharing. I'm really looking for some of the insights to the thought process of riding and racing so your not really off topic at all. A bit about why I started the topic. One of the barriers I am running into right now is the "me" factor in gaining speed on the track. I started reading "The Soft Science of Road Racing Motorcycles" by our favorite author and there's lots of references to racing. I figured taking a moment to think about the human element might make it easier for me to understand some of my own strengths and weaknesses and how to exploit them to get my speed up. I wish you were my pit mechanic! I have been blaming my FZR for a number of my own riding problems. Watching someone else show me "it's not the bike" is just what I need at the moment. I recently purchased my R6 track bike as a bit of a "no more excuses" solution.

Hey. Thanks for the contribution to the thread! While it's not themed the same it's not off topic at all. I posted the thread to get a better understanding of what makes a racer tick. I think this is an overlooked part of fascinating human behavior. I'm with you on riding within my limits. While I have yet to develop the skill to survive in a competition environment I always reserve an "oh #!&@^" factor in case something unexpected pops up on track days. I have met many track day riders that don't and think I'm missing out by sacrificing the speed for an extra margin of flexibility when something unexpected happens. Certainly a different viewpoint and probably a bit more expensive when putting your bike back together after a few crashes.

In my short time riding I have run into a lot of people that like to attach yellow plates to their bikes and ride the wheels off of them. I have noticed a couple of interesting personality Archetypes of the racers that I have met in the flesh. I was wondering if others have perhaps spotted these patterns and if there's an interesting trend of personality type. I have spotted two. I'm sure there are others. 1. Quiet and Unassuming. Very polite and reserved people who you would never think were speed freaks. Ask them a question and they are fountains of knowledge and eventually reveal why they know what they know. Sometimes middle of the road but often shockingly fast. 2. Aggressive. Predators on two wheels stalking their prey. Forceful and often slightly rude. Sometimes talented and fast.

Hey. Thanks. Just noticed your comment. Can't wait to get the new to me R6 to the track.