rchase

Your not the only one. As long as we strive to improve we will "eventually" get there.

Never thought of the economics. Car track days are not as expensive as you think. A friend of mine is pretty heavily into car track days and does his track days in his BMW M3. He drives directly to the track and back and takes the same car to the office the next day with worn out tires. He's been trying to get me to go to Road Atlanta with him in my Porsche but I'm having way too much fun with the bikes. But actually that's is a good point if you look at it slightly differently. Most Superbikes have a performance characteristic that's closer to an older F1 car. The BMW's the school rents to people could probably humiliate most road going exotic cars and even some of the modified ones on trailers heading to car track days. The reality is for $15K you can get more performance than a car that costs $300K. That's an amazing value. Regardless of if people agree I found the Embrace Risk article quite inspiring and it brings me one step closer to figuring out what makes me tick. I do however find this conversation quite interesting at the same time. Seeing other people's points of view is always a good thing. Despite my willingness to "Embrace Risk" as the article discusses the simple fact of the matter is most of you guys are probably a lot faster than I am at the moment.

I bought a track bike that came with slicks so I considered this question myself. At first my logic was "more grip is always better" and I started looking into it further. I soon realized with a bit of my own research that at my slowish track day pace I would probably not be able to keep them up to full operating temps and might end up in situations where I had less grip than a standard DOT tire. Add in the fact you have to run warmers and have to change tires if it rained and it did not make a lot of sense for me on a track day. Those slicks are still sitting in my basement. I have seen lots of bikes on slicks at track days including Novices. Racing of course changes the game entirely and I have nothing really to add there. They certainly are worth a try just to see if you like them. Why not?

Ok. A question for you "control freaks". What appeals to you about a motorcycle? You can gain the same level of "control" in a car. There are lots of cars out there that provide similar speed. If control is the only thing you want you would have a lot more control with 4 wheels vs 2. I'm really interested in understanding other riders appeal for bikes as it often times helps me understand my own appeal. If you remove the emotional appeal the logical argument often is not as compelling when you consider performance car vs motorcycle. I think many of you will discover when you think about it that it's the risk that makes motorcycles more appealing. That consequence for not getting it right that drives us to to survive somehow. I think it's hard wired into the way we operate. That's one of the things that I really liked about Keith's article as if you had asked me the same question before I read it I would have responded exactly like you guys did because I am a cautious rider. Or perhaps was a cautious rider. Now that I understand the real reasons I am out there I might just do what the article suggests and embrace the risk. In a careful and sane way of course. Every time I start my bike and head to the start finish line at a track I am aware of the risk I am taking just by being there. Someone could take an aggressive high speed inside pass and loose it and take me out. Someone could dump oil all over the track. My bike could catastrophically fail. In fact it has. I think my awareness of these risks is the reason I was able to get my bike safely off the race line and into the grass without crashing.

I hate to say this but I agree with you on this. As tempted as I am to sign up for their Road Atlanta date I'm going to wait a few months and see what happens and watch the forums to see if the new group is trustworthy. The new group has a hard road ahead to regain the trust of customers that NESBA is trying to take advantage of. Speaking of being trustworthy. In the Nesba/N2 forum for their calendar thread I posted a very polite message something of the lines of "No Barber?" and it was deleted. No PM from a moderator or anything. That kind of tells me a lot of what I need to know right there.

I have been keeping up with "the trainwreck" myself. I planned on riding with NESBA at Barber later this month. It's truly a shame as I really liked NESBA's philosophy and the concept of their group layout. I never even got a chance to ride with them! What's sad as well is the new org does not have any Barber dates on their calendar. I'm waiting to see what happens and really look forward to hearing feedback from people who have ridden with one of the spin off's. The first event for N2 is at Road Atlanta and I'm almost tempted to sign up.

There's a good bit of stuff you can certainly learn on the street in full compliance of local traffic laws and being completely safe. All of the Visual skills taught in the school apply everywhere. Heck I have even practiced my visual skills walking down hallways. Its absolutely amazing how much more more stuff you see in life when you turn on "wide view". I learned to hang off at the school but then went and practiced in a parking lot. If you find a large, wide open parking lot, free of debris and traffic that's a great place to practice. Emphasis on "free of debris". This happened to my tire because I did not bother checking for debris ahead of time. That was an expensive lesson but worth every penny as it REALLY boosted my confidence. You don't have to break speed limits to practice your line and finding your turn points on familiar corners. Rev matched downshifts while braking is great to practice on the street too. I actually practice my rev match down shifting while braking riding my 1997 Harley Fatboy. Even though it's "A Hog" (no pun intended) with a tractor transmission it still has a brake lever and a throttle to blip. I find going out and focusing on "one thing" on a ride is really helpful when I practice things on the street. A little thought ahead of time about what you want to work on and picking a good route to accomplish your goal safely is key. It makes for a great afternoon of riding that's productive at the same time. Win win.

Awesome video. Saw it on asphalt and rubber. http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/lifestyle/keith-code-art-cornering/ Great cinematography on the video!

Smells like sag adjustment to me too but as other members have mentioned need more info. BTW welcome to the forum.

Just a polite heads up for my CSS friends. I did some poking around in the NESBA forums a bit ago and it seems like they are having some issues with some of the Southeast Region dates. Seems they canceled their Barber date but still are selling it on the website. No official word yet from NESBA but there are rumors floating around that the SE region might go the way of the MW region. If your planning on signing up for NESBA dates you may want to check out their forums ahead of time to see what's going on. Here's a link to one of many threads on the topic. http://tracktalk.nesba.com/showthread.php?t=33161

My addition. How well insured the rider is.

Very cool seat!. When I did a really crummy looking seat for my FZR400 I was amazed at the difference it made. Having one that's not just an ugly block of foam is a major plus.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but... I thought the actual speed in the corner was not as important as the speed you get going out of the corner by using correct throttle control and good drive... Slow in fast out as they say... I'm pretty darn good at the slow in part myself. Just have to get that fast out perfected a bit more.

Very good article. There's a lot of hype out there about trail braking. As always Keith is able to provide clarity with science.

It's completely needed. Even on the street in my opinion. I own an older Yamaha FZR400 that was made before adjustable front forks were common place. In order to prepare my bike for the track I had to open up the front forks and use metal shims to set the preload for my weight. I don't have any dampening settings at all at the moment. I'll agree with you for a moment with your sentiment of "vanity accessories". One just has to look at some owners with Carbon Fibre parts that save a few fractions of a gram in weight to see that. This is not one of those. Preload adjusters help set the bike so the forks are in the center of the travel range and that gives you the "maximum" amount of suspension travel both up and down by keeping the forks and shocks in their sweet spot. Compression settings help make the bike more stable in different track situations. If you want a quick demo of how important the adjustments are do this. Set the bike at max preload and go for a careful ride. Come back and set it at minimum preload and do the same. Then get a tape measure and correctly adjust the sag at 30mm for the track (watch Keith's video on how to do the adjustments). You will notice the difference instantly each time. At max preload the bike will be VERY harsh and bumpy and you will be bottoming out the suspension. At minimum preload the bike will be topping out the suspension and will occasionally skip over the ground. Setting it at 30mm will put you in the center of the travel range and the suspension will operate as designed. You can play the same game with your compression settings as well. Just keep accurate notes of the original settings if you want to play around and be a bit cautious at first when riding with any new settings (a suspension bottoming out or topping out will make the bike loose traction in the right situation). As Hotfoot mentioned in one of Keith's books there's a suspension setting drill that steps you through setting the suspension in a more controlled way so you can feel the differences in settings. This is something I plan on doing in the future. At the moment I accept the default settings that my suspension guy sets for my body weight and the track I'm riding. These settings are not just for racers and tinkerers. They were put on these bikes to adjust for different rider weights and different conditions that these bikes were designed to be used in. Just to give you an idea of how important these are. Harley Davidson has adjustable suspension on a few of their models such as the Sportster XR1200. Speaking of Harleys. I'm VERY much considering taking my 800# Harley Fatboy up to Traxxion Dynamics for new springs and some upgrades. Even a big cruiser like a this can benefit by correctly setup suspension.

Darth, A simple suspension setup is around $80 if you don't need springs. It's transformed SEVERAL of my bikes and the difference is even noticeable on the street. It's like getting a new bike. Just a word of caution though. Most bikes from the factory come with very light springs. If your are on the heavier side of the spectrum be prepared for new springs. Three springs and adjustment on a street going R6 that I have ran me around $330. About feeling strongly that track riding will improve your street riding. That was part of the motivation that got me out on the track as well. It's amazing the confidence it builds. Knowing that you have taken sharper turns at higher speeds makes even unfamiliar roads seem much less intimidating.

To add to the list..... Crush Washers for brakes. Extra bleed nipples (speed bleeder makes a great aftermarket one with a ball bearing for one person bleeding) I had a few issues getting the brakes to bleed on my R6. For the life of me I could not get good pressure. I had leaking crush washers that just barely seeped but not enough so you noticed. I could see this potentially being a track side issue if you suddenly had a very subtle leak in one of the banjo fittings.

Another thing to consider. Suspension components age over time. Fork seals loose their flexibility, the oil gets old and parts get dirty with use on the road and on the track. All of these factors over time limit the suspension's ability to function as it was designed. I took my one of my bikes to just get it setup for my weight and while they were doing the bounce test to set the compression and rebound the bike wallowed around regardless of where the adjusters were set. After the rebuild with fresh oil, seals and a good cleaning it completely transformed the way the bike handled. A bike that I had accepted as twitchy and easily upset because it was an exotic became amazingly more forgiving and planted. Wish I had done it years sooner! As others have said the reason why the suspensions are adjustable is to account for different rider weights and to adjust for different track situations. Regular service of forks and shocks and correct adjustment gives you the best possible handling for your specific situation.

Kevin. Thanks also quite helpful.

That's certainly true. I can't wait to see where we will end up after 10 years of evolution and more performance aware systems coming into the marketplace. The S1000RR's TC and power management is a great start.

Just some clarification as now that I have re-read my comment it sounds like I'm some crazed thrill seeker riding at the bleeding edge of traction which is not the case. I ride well within my 75% comfort zone even when the risk is no longer in my immediate thoughts. While recognizing the true reason I'm out there on the track is for the "thrill" there's good and bad risk. Being barely in control of the bike is not enjoyable for me either. I found Keith's article quite interesting because it exposed to me the underlying reason "why" I enjoy riding on the track so much. Some people take this concept to the extreme and ride way over their head but that honestly does not appeal to me much.

YellowDuck. Thanks for the explanation. I have a track bike I intend to use this year that has a slipper clutch in it and I plan to experiment around with it just to better understand how it works.

Welcome to the forum. There's no place else like it.

EPIC article! Keith dared state what a lot of people have been thinking about the "romantic" view of risk. He even pinned the concept beyond the term romantic that I used which I think is 110% accurate. I suppose if I think about it for a moment the logical side of my mind goes to the track because it's a "safer" environment but another part of my mind is attracted to the speed and the risk involved. At the track when I first get there my mind tends to focus on taking it easy and not crashing. After a few laps there's not a thought of the risk at all and I find myself pushing my personal limits and being completely intoxicated by the sound of the bike and then sensation when I pitch it into the corners faster and faster. I consider myself a rather conservative and safe rider. The reality is many of us seek the ability to live life with actual consequences which is so darn rare in modern society. On a bike that risk is about as intense as you can get. My quest for "risk" took me from cars to aircraft and now to bikes. Even when I'm pushing a sports car in the mountains well past it's limits with the rear end sliding the sense of risk is not as intense as it is riding a bike. All that crash protection softens the consequences. A crash in most modern cars in the mountains is usually an insurance claim and an inconvenience rather than the real risk of death. Even aerobatic maneuvers in a plane don't have have the same level of thrill. If you make a mistake it's probably going to be a few seconds with the ability to recover as you plummet from the sky. A bike responds instantly and crashes instantly with a huge consequence if you get it wrong. Risk makes us feel alive because it reminds us of the finite nature of our existence. There's some untapped parts of our minds that absolutely loves that. Keith. Thank you for writing this article. The more I learn about riding the more I learn about myself and what makes me tick. A very wise man once said "many are the paths to enlightenment".

Never realized that you had to "time" your slipper clutch releases with the actual turn. Cool tidbit there. Does it just keep slipping when you start your throttle roll on? Since I don't have the fancy stuff on my bike I learned to rev match. When I added braking at the same time I found that it completely freed up my attention heading into the turn. I could brake and downshift much later and there were not two things to think about. Currently I ride "by the seat of my pants" and downshift and listen to the engine revs to determine the gearing. Eventually I want to get to the state where I know that Turn 4 I need to drop 3 gears shift shift shift very deep into the corner. A slipper clutch in that case though would come in handy in case I get it wrong.