636rider

Sean, The level 3 has techniques that will help one to save a bad line. If I remember correctly, student are asked to intentional make a bad drive and then correct it with the new techniques. I find that some drills at level 1 such as quick turn, become more exciting and important as one has more confidence for higher entry speed with skills from level 3. I cannot recall spending too much time at learning to brake at level 3, instead I spend more time to exercise at higher entry speed with body position and quicker turn. I believe that one who crashes at level 1 or 2, can probably save with the level 3 skills. Hope you can join level 3 soon and find out.

Not sure we can see it from the engine design approach-- Why use 4 cylinders instead of 1 for the same engine size? A piston will accelerate faster if it has less mass, and when the ratio of connecting rod length (L) to the crank arm radius ( R ) is larger. Acceleration can be faster by making R smaller. However, small crank arm radius also means less torque, so the engine needs more cylinders to compensate for torque requirement. Same reason for building a 12-cylinder engine for racing car and only 4 cylinders for Civic. A big-banger trail bike needs torque and therefore uses large crank arm radius R but compromises the piston acceleration, and needs only 1 cylinder. In short, a multi-cylinder engine will accelerate faster by design. Wondering whether what you are feeling, is partially in fact due to the faster acceleration of the in-line 4 engine compares with a V-twin that has only 2 cylinders.

Craig, It seems won't hurt to move on to level 3 or 4, then retake level 1 and 2 later. They are different skills and you may see the level 1 and 2 drills quite differently after you have the taste of level 3 skill too. I find able to hang off a little bit and know the possibility of correcting line with hook turn from level 3 exercise, helps me to do the quick turn drill of level 1 differently. At least at higher entry speed, it becomes less frightening.

Nice x-mas present indeed! One thing that we have found with used leathers is the salt that can accumulate. We started to wash the leathers, then recondition them. Washing in the tub with a mild soap. Rinse repeatedly, (until the water no longer is dirty), dry, then condition. Has worked quite well. Don't dry too fast, like not in the dryer. I did use a fan at one point when they were taking a while to get dried. Nothing like a new set, but a way to keep the older around and in good order. Best, CF ps--I g Nice to get this cleaning info-- I always worry about leather may shrink a lot when wash and dry fast. Wondering anyone has also sent their leather for professional leather cleaning or dry cleaning, with good result?

Hello Kevin, Glad that you understand my situation. Yes, I have signed up for March with the hope to try the slide bike at Infineon too. Last time, i was late to register and the class was full real early. I believe that my "little boy" might have met you before, at track during his bike school or as corner worker, though may not be at Infineon. Hope that I can meet you someday too since I enjoy reading your posts on stories about bikes, riding experience.

Got my motorcycle license in Hong Kong in 1976 with a Honda CB125. Then rode one of the 7 Honda XL350's registered there in the following years. In those years, Hong Kong was building their first mass transit railroad. With any 4 wheel vehicles, it took average 2 hours to travel 4 miles (yes, average 2 mph), from one end of Hong Kong Island to other end due to bumper to bumper traffic every workday during construction. My XL350 would take 15 minutes and loved it. Came to California in 1982 and got the first bigger bike--Suzuki GS650G, rode to DMV and got my CA motorcycle license and planned to work in downtown San Francisco with bike for easy parking. Then got married and shortly afterwards, motorcycle license was suspended--wife said only able to ride under either: condition 1, I get my own ranch with private roads and ride only inside ranch, or condition 2, little boy becomes 21 years old. Could not afford a ranch in San Francisco and so waited until condition 2. Got a Kawasaki 636 in 2006, then also attended level 1, 2 and 3 with the "little boy". Now try to catch up the missing fun by riding to work when it is not raining.

Hi JT, I have signed up to use school bike also because of cost too--even with over $1250 deposit and this is my 4th time in coming March in Sears Point. Considering one crash (though it has not happened yet) may cost more with own bike. In addition, saving tire cost and preparing the coolant etc plus the chance to ride the new BMW, seems worths it.

Quaker, which one is your hometown track? Some people would like to beat their hometown track better than their visitors. Advantage may be you will be closer to the familiar track (with the coaches' help to analyze that track during school) when you practice again in future. With the coaches from the school, I guess every track will be equally good for learning.

Cobie, Thanks a lot for info. Another new school exercise now--- 2-finger drill.

H, It isn't the full 400+ lbs of weight that one has to hold. We are talking the times a rider has saved it, when it has just gone over the edge of traction, but the tires are still in contact with the ground. How much does one have to "hold" a correctly set up bike, when it is in the turn, and the bike is moving? AND let's not forget no lean angle change (otherwise the rider would have some pressure on the bars). Any of the physics guys up here have a an idea of how to calculate this? CF Cobie, Not sure it is a trick question.-- my guess will be none. No force is needed to "hold' a correctly set up bike in the turn if not trying to change its line. If I do not need to put the $1250 deposit on the school bike, I shall let both hands off the bar in the lean to prove it during my next school session.

Hi Slow, Hip flick is "before moving any of the other upper body to the other side of lean, just move the hip (butt) to the other side first, then your knee to knee flip for the upper body, so as not to disturb the bike". Can I correct? Slowslow

It would be interesting to see a little survey on how often the school coaches/ former champion students/ other experience racers are using trail braking when they are not teaching, but during racing or practicing for fun.

hello there fella, using your theoretical example of a corner speed of 200mph ( ) you want to keep that 200mph from entry all the way through and out the corner. Now, if you assume that the bike can approach the corner above 200mph, say 220mph, it is entirely possible to go in to the corner on the brakes past your previously designated turn point doing lets say 210...dropping down to 200 again by the time you are at the apex and off the brakes.......so you have carried more speed up to the corner and the same speed from the mid point onward and so have gone faster.........yes? Anyway, as i i've now said a few times, I dont want to debate the finer details, its been done already and tends to result in people replying by stating what they believe to be correct rather than adressing the original point. Hello Stumpy, it seems that if you can start the turn at 210 mph and quick turn to full lean angle without problem (no sliding, run wide etc), why not maintain that 210 mph all the way until pass apex and then pick up the bike and accelerate, instead of trail braking to the slower speed 200 mph. Of course, if you want to block other racer by tightening the line, you may trail brake even it is losing speed/time. Or if you see a decreasing radius and need to correct the line, you may trail brake to slow down to avoid running wide if you have already reached max lean. In fact, there are other effective technique for correcting the line, such as hook turn, or handling the DR such as using double apex---which I would let some other experienced coaches/riders to comment. Trail braking is useful in some areas though may not be the best for those areas, but needs too much attention that may not give the fastest lap time. The attention may be more rewarding when spent on quick turn, selection of line and entry speed.

Hi there, can we look at the cornering from pure engineering approach. If for the given corner where the max speed is say 200 mph for the curve. What will be the quickly time to complete that portion? I would say keep constant 200 mph, right from the entry point before the lean, all the way to when we can increase speed after pick up the bike (assuming after apex). How can it be faster if we are trail braking? Any trail braking means not able to achieve maximum speed (200 mph) during the same portion of the corner. Trail braking is useful for correction for unseen requirement to slow down or change line. If you can set up the entry speed correctly, trail braking seems cannot be faster. 50 years later, Rossi's speed may be considered slow. It will be interesting to see Keith training Rossi's son to break Rossi's record. Correction, I feel Keith can train Rossi's daughter to break Rossi's record too.

Hello twitchmonitor, T7 at Sears Point is a double apex right turns, wonder why you land on left side. You were at only 5 degree lean.---do you brake hard enough (even you just easing THEM on) such that the bike turn around completely, more or less change direction with rear wheel going first and then flip to left? Wonder whether the side of your front tire, and the middle of your rear tire have been scuffed in well enough, such that they are still slippery at certain areas. Hope to have someone with experience on similar crash condition to analyze. Glad that you are OK.

Like Kevin says...what a loaded question.. Even Rossi cannot go fast with my nighthawk 250, he has both skill and courage; we need your bike too

I agree with BLSJDS that quick turn sure will help, but relax and do not push yourself to ground. Check at 04:20 time, if we can lean sharp to correct angle fast like the coach. It will help a lot.Quick turn is a level 1 drill, but it is not until much much later, at level 3 that I can feel able to do better. If you do not have problem with quick turn, may be you are able to ride faster but only do not trust your own ability.

This little one for sure will hangeoff when placed in a shopping cart.

Hi Freedy, Have you considered using the "END" of braking point too as Keith has suggested in the T of T page 64? That will allow seeing in advance where braking will be finished, adjusting the entry speed more easily. I find it is helpful and hope you do too.

Hi Fossilfuel, You forget to mention about being caught quite often quick-turning and leaning your shopping cart too......

Bullet, I can see that no coach can be attracted to working as coach if they work only for the coach's salary----there are many more jobs with better money reward for the actual time spent, extra time for preparation, and giving up their time with their significant ones at home for awhile. Glad that there are group of people like you as coaches who have the passion to share their experience of riding and improve our skills.

Hi Harnois, and others who are sharing their technique and info on tires. Thanks for confirming that you can sometimes just possible to ignore the gravel and let it slide. It seems if cannot slow down early before turn, may be better to let it slide rather than brake on sand during turn.

Hi Everyone, Just curious about what you will do when see sand ( or oil) on track/road during cornering. For the time being, I tend towards slow down before entering or committing the turn for less lean angle--- to be safe. I wonder whether it is necessary and would like to hear the experience of those who slides at corners a lot. Will smooth throttle control (maintanence throttle ) take care of the slippery condition? May be able to try the slide bike one day will change my reaction during same situation. Any experience on this to share? Thanks.

Hi dbtriple, you may want to make sure your leather is good fit---(especially the pant not baggy, 1 piece leather is highly recommanded and a must for me at drills). it will help you hangoff with 1 leg locking the bike with ease-- and the inner foot off the inner peg, and with both hands completely off the handlebar at same time. You will find this exercise helpful at level 3, especially in the hook turn drill. You will have fun and new skills at level3. Wow, I never thought about this detail, but I'm glad you mentioned it - I am hanging off more and having a bit of trouble locking in securely. I have plenty of Stomp Grip on my bike - but my leathers are a bit loose and it never dawned on me that my knee/thigh might be sliding within my leathers. I bet that is part of my difficulty, and of course that would not be easily observed. I'm going to watch for this on my next track day, you may have cleared up a little mystery for me! Thanks for that clever idea. Glad that we all find something to blame when not able to hang-off easily and well----our leather, and it is valid. If we do not need to break-in the leather, or we can standup comfortably without lowering the zipper, the leather is too big. See how nice fit Keith is in his leather: http://www.superbikeschool.co.uk/keithcode.php Looks less comfortable when standing but will be perfect at riding position. I learn something from this picture.