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Pro's And Cornering


rick_b
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I've noticed that myself lately and my first thought was that, based on my own experience, they are in the process of putting their foot back up on the peg after pulling it out from under the shifter, finshing their backshifting at the last minute before turning in. I've even noticed Rossi doing this. However, considering how long they leave it floating out there, I think it is possible that they may also be leaving it out in case they need to catch the bike if it gets too sideways or maybe pushes the front too much maybe. The truth is I really don't know. I didn't really expect Rossi to be "flat tracking" it, but, who can say... except Val?

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I think its done to get more weight off to the side of the bike. Figure a leg at 20-25 pounds a foot away from the bike can change the handling. I've played with this at the track a bit and it did seem to change the handling, but this wasn't at race pace and I could have been making inputs other places on the bike.

Off the track I have notice a difference in handling when I take the loaded saddlebags off my BMW touring bike.

All in all, at the club racing level I really dont think it changes much, but at THEIR level, every little change can be an advantage.

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Ah-soooo. At my level of riding it might not make a really big difference, but, at the level they are riding... every little bit counts.

 

That sounds pretty good to me.

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Ah-soooo. At my level of riding it might not make a really big difference, but, at the level they are riding... every little bit counts.

 

That sounds pretty good to me.

 

Ha! I had to re-read my post to see what you meant. You had me for a second.

 

I love sarcasm!

 

 

I was referring to 'THEIR' level as nearly unobtainable skills at the top level of 'OUR' sport. ;)

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Ah-soooo. At my level of riding it might not make a really big difference, but, at the level they are riding... every little bit counts.

 

That sounds pretty good to me.

 

Ha! I had to re-read my post to see what you meant. You had me for a second.

 

I love sarcasm!

 

 

I was referring to 'THEIR' level as nearly unobtainable skills at the top level of 'OUR' sport. ;)

 

Er... it was not my intention to be sarcastic. I'm not sure what you mean, but, I wasn't being self-deprecating either. I really do believe Rossi is a better rider than I am.... on his better days anyway...

 

 

(now I'm being sarcastic!) :)

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I think it is wrong to think that they are actively doing this. I don't believe that they are. It just happens because their foot is off the peg after/while downshifting. I have had occasions where my foot was bouncing on the lever downshifting and the rear got real loose and moved with the camber of a turn. My foot didn't go back on the peg as I got the back end in line. I didn't think about it. I'm a putz. It just happened.

 

These riders are world class and are all about feel and balance right at the edge. They "feel" what is right and go with it. If it happens to be that the foot is off the peg when they do this, that is what it is. It isn't a technique, or skill, it is feel and balance and control...well, at least for them. For me, it just happened because I made a number of mistakes and had to compensate. My foot being out in the air was the least of my problems!

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The foot coming off is when they move it from making the shift (backshift/downshift), and are putting it back on the peg.

 

Remember the corner entry speeds, and look at how quickly they get it from upright to turned. They are on tires we can't buy, on bikes we can't buy/rent/use, and there isn't much time from when the backshift is done, to the bike being leaned over. As for flattracking it, I think most of the saves are done with the knee. As for weight being out there, the weight is still supported by something, so not sure how it would be an advantage--if supported by the torso, it's on the seat/pegs, wherever they are attached to the bike--maybe even a little on the bars.

 

What do you guys see on this?

 

C

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I was under the impression that it was because they have to move the foot back into position after shifting (that's why they only do it with the left foot) and are just getting it back into position for the turn. If it was for weight, they'd do it on right handed turns also.

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No, if you watch them their left foot is right off the peg and close to the ground, it's not from changing gears and in a race in happens on the same corners time after time and a few off the riders do it at every track and of late Rossi has started doing it more and more.

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the BBC comentators here say thats when you know that rossi is right on the limit when he does that, I have noticed him doing it for a few years now and more recently have noticed a few other guys doing it especially the ones that have come up from 250s!

Ialways thought it was to get some weight out just before turn in but I suppose it makes sense that it would happen after a downshift considering that they will have a race shift pattern 1 up 5 down as opposed to standard road pattern 1 down 5 up meaning that after a down shift the foot would be under the gear lever and would have to come out before turning in and back on the footrest ready for the next upshift.

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I have to agree with David and Rick's observations. Speaking as someone who has many miles and years of racing a GP shift pattern, the foot stays out there and near the ground longer than it would on average. When I saw Rossi doing it, I thought, "Boy, he must really be off balance to take so long to put his foot back up". So, FWIW... at the very least, the situation is something more than nothing, ie. just putting me foot back, mate.

 

racer

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ok this is just a thought, I really dont know but like the discussion!

I was just reading TOTW2 and reading chapter 19 I started to wonder, could this be a form of pivot steering the moto gp guys are doing?

Going into a left hand turn push almost all their weight onto the right hand foot rest and nothing on the left then pushing the left hand bar and quick steering the bike then setting the left foot on the footrest all in one smooth motion!

maybe the same thing cant be done on right hand turns as if the right hand side of the body was even a little bit unstable (foot not on the footrest) then that may affect their throttle control.

 

just an idea though I dont know!

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Like posted before more and more guys are doing it. I think it's more than just moving a foot back into position. They hold it out and near the ground for a good length of time. And watch closely, you can see them move their foot up and down. Yes, it's always on left turns and not rights. But, remember the rear brake is on the right.

I tend to see Rossi do it more while passing WAY on the inside. Pedrosa too. Nickey rides flat track so I guess he has an excuse. ;)

And as someone posted above, it's done at certain tracks in specific corners, but not all.

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  • 2 weeks later...
ok this is just a thought, I really dont know but like the discussion!

I was just reading TOTW2 and reading chapter 19 I started to wonder, could this be a form of pivot steering the moto gp guys are doing?

Going into a left hand turn push almost all their weight onto the right hand foot rest and nothing on the left then pushing the left hand bar and quick steering the bike then setting the left foot on the footrest all in one smooth motion!

maybe the same thing cant be done on right hand turns as if the right hand side of the body was even a little bit unstable (foot not on the footrest) then that may affect their throttle control.

 

just an idea though I dont know!

 

 

I too noticed Bayliss really doing this a lot last week at Sachsenring and have been wondering. And then today.... surprise... I had an epiphany while riding my road bicycle... again. I discovered that I do the same thing when intially pushing off from a standing start and it is exactly like what you propose, acebobby. (Hey, your noodle works great! :) )

 

Here is what I noticed myself doing:

 

When I put my leg over the bike, I spin the crank backwards to line the pedal up high to prepare to push hard off the line and lock my toe into the clip. When I push off, I stand up with all my weight on the one pedal and (just noticed) that I leave my other leg dangle straight ... down and outward a bit. It isn't about my center of gravity per se but I am doing it (unconsciously) to help balance myself with 100% of my weight on the other pedal. While it doesn't really lower the center of gravity or anything, leaving my leg dangle down like a pendulum DOES offset my body mass balanced on the other pedal. Think about a tight rope walker using a pole... it's a similar deal. My weight is kept long (transverse and vertical) and low and as far as possible from the other pedal. And I leave it out there until I am all lined up and ready to start pedaling.

 

racer

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  • 11 months later...

I have been watching this same phenomenon for a few years now.. I think that the foot acts like a monkeys tails as in a counter balance. When hard on the front brakes the rear wheel wants to lift off the ground and we all know this is no good for a stable turn in... I think that by placing the foot off of the peg it goes lower and further towards the rear of the bike that the weight of the foot and leg act as a counter balance and help to settle the rear end back down and or allow for just a hair of harder front braking without the rear picking up or getting as light. This is purely speculation though.. but you can see that when they are battling and someone has gone in really hot and deep the further out and back they will throw the foot and leg.

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Ive heard Rossi say he does not really know why he's hanging his foot off, just that it feels better under extreme braking. Why is it that we dont see the WSBK riders doing it?

 

My opinion is that the technology has surpassed the human body. The modern day MotoGP bike brakes harder excellarate faster and well does things way past what the human body can handle for 20+ laps. I mean ive heard that they have to have surgery on their hands to relieve the pressure on their muslce or such (might have this wrong).

 

NO, i am convinsed that those bikes are becoming a bit of a handfull for the human flesh.

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  • 2 weeks later...
I mean ive heard that they have to have surgery on their hands to relieve the pressure on their muslce or such (might have this wrong).

 

NO, i am convinsed that those bikes are becoming a bit of a handfull for the human flesh.

 

They do get surgery in the forearm to reduce "arm pump." Motocross riders have been doing it for a while because once you get arm pump you lose most of your grip and accurate feel in your hands.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if hanging their leg out helped the bike turn in a little bit more because of aerodynamic drag. I'm sure all of you know how much force the wind has on your upper body at 140+mph when you sit up for a braking section.

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I mean ive heard that they have to have surgery on their hands to relieve the pressure on their muslce or such (might have this wrong).

 

NO, i am convinsed that those bikes are becoming a bit of a handfull for the human flesh.

 

They do get surgery in the forearm to reduce "arm pump." Motocross riders have been doing it for a while because once you get arm pump you lose most of your grip and accurate feel in your hands.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if hanging their leg out helped the bike turn in a little bit more because of aerodynamic drag. I'm sure all of you know how much force the wind has on your upper body at 140+mph when you sit up for a braking section.

 

That arm surgery was popular for a while, but is it really, really needed (as often as it has been done)? What causes the arm pump in the first place, and what's the solution to that?

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I mean ive heard that they have to have surgery on their hands to relieve the pressure on their muslce or such (might have this wrong).

 

NO, i am convinsed that those bikes are becoming a bit of a handfull for the human flesh.

 

They do get surgery in the forearm to reduce "arm pump." Motocross riders have been doing it for a while because once you get arm pump you lose most of your grip and accurate feel in your hands.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if hanging their leg out helped the bike turn in a little bit more because of aerodynamic drag. I'm sure all of you know how much force the wind has on your upper body at 140+mph when you sit up for a braking section.

 

That arm surgery was popular for a while, but is it really, really needed (as often as it has been done)? What causes the arm pump in the first place, and what's the solution to that?

 

 

 

Haha I like that question. Well from my motocross experience its from having to grip the handlebars pretty tight to muscle the bike around in certain rough sections of track but its only caused by to tight of a grip. On a sportbike I don't think you should ever get arm pump because you shouldn't have to grip the bars that tight at anytime even under braking. I have more track time on a ditbike then I could ever keep track of but I have zero track time on a sportbike so I could be wrong. As soon as my bank account allows I'll be at VIR with CSS :lol: .

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Haha I like that question. Well from my motocross experience its from having to grip the handlebars pretty tight to muscle the bike around in certain rough sections of track but its only caused by to tight of a grip. On a sportbike I don't think you should ever get arm pump because you shouldn't have to grip the bars that tight at anytime even under braking. I have more track time on a ditbike then I could ever keep track of but I have zero track time on a sportbike so I could be wrong. As soon as my bank account allows I'll be at VIR with CSS :lol: .

 

Going to have to agree with you on this point. It is Survival Reaction #2. :rolleyes:

 

CF

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