Getting Bike Fit

[Jaybird180]

You are right of course, it was a silly statement to make, I realise that racers come from all walks of life, some born into it and some just decide later thats what they want to do, I just cant believe that it would be imposible for a woman to be competitve in pro racing! I could be wrong and so far history proves that but I feel there must be more to it than just being the wrong sex!

Now Sir, we are on the same sheet of music. I want to know (like you) WHY they aren't competitive. I don't think it's physiology (although they are more "top heavy"). I wonder if it's a matter of desire and cultural grooming telling them that it's not ladylike to compete. And then you have normal rate of attrition in this sport due to injury and just .....life. I suppose cause we start with more men, more stick.

[Cobie Fair]

You are right of course, it was a silly statement to make, I realise that racers come from all walks of life, some born into it and some just decide later thats what they want to do, I just cant believe that it would be imposible for a woman to be competitve in pro racing! I could be wrong and so far history proves that but I feel there must be more to it than just being the wrong sex!

Now Sir, we are on the same sheet of music. I want to know (like you) WHY they aren't competitive. I don't think it's physiology (although they are more "top heavy"). I wonder if it's a matter of desire and cultural grooming telling them that it's not ladylike to compete. And then you have normal rate of attrition in this sport due to injury and just .....life. I suppose cause we start with more men, more stick.

 

There have been women that have made it pretty far up--who was the German(?) girl that ended up with some kind of championship, Katia-something?

 

Of course we have had Misti doing well, and Jessica Z has been out there, but Misti regularly is 3 seconds a lap faster.

 

There are for sure fewer women that race than men, so pretty small pool to begin with. One could ask the same in car racing--any world champs there?

 

C

[Jaybird180]

You are right of course, it was a silly statement to make, I realise that racers come from all walks of life, some born into it and some just decide later thats what they want to do, I just cant believe that it would be imposible for a woman to be competitve in pro racing! I could be wrong and so far history proves that but I feel there must be more to it than just being the wrong sex!

Now Sir, we are on the same sheet of music. I want to know (like you) WHY they aren't competitive. I don't think it's physiology (although they are more "top heavy"). I wonder if it's a matter of desire and cultural grooming telling them that it's not ladylike to compete. And then you have normal rate of attrition in this sport due to injury and just .....life. I suppose cause we start with more men, more stick.

 

There have been women that have made it pretty far up--who was the German(?) girl that ended up with some kind of championship, Katia-something?

 

Of course we have had Misti doing well, and Jessica Z has been out there, but Misti regularly is 3 seconds a lap faster.

 

There are for sure fewer women that race than men, so pretty small pool to begin with. One could ask the same in car racing--any world champs there?

 

C

How many AMA wins does Misti have? Podiums, Top 5's? Top 10's? ....

Hey, I'm not ragging on her or anything, she's a better woman than I'll ever be, but I wanna see a woman scrap it out for a championship alongside men. Seems that no one can offer a good hypothesis as to why we don't.

[Jaybird180]

You are right of course, it was a silly statement to make, I realise that racers come from all walks of life, some born into it and some just decide later thats what they want to do, I just cant believe that it would be imposible for a woman to be competitve in pro racing! I could be wrong and so far history proves that but I feel there must be more to it than just being the wrong sex!

Now Sir, we are on the same sheet of music. I want to know (like you) WHY they aren't competitive. I don't think it's physiology (although they are more "top heavy"). I wonder if it's a matter of desire and cultural grooming telling them that it's not ladylike to compete. And then you have normal rate of attrition in this sport due to injury and just .....life. I suppose cause we start with more men, more stick.

 

There have been women that have made it pretty far up--who was the German(?) girl that ended up with some kind of championship, Katia-something?

 

Of course we have had Misti doing well, and Jessica Z has been out there, but Misti regularly is 3 seconds a lap faster.

 

There are for sure fewer women that race than men, so pretty small pool to begin with. One could ask the same in car racing--any world champs there?

 

C

How many AMA wins does Misti have? Podiums, Top 5's? Top 10's? ....

Hey, I'm not ragging on her or anything, she's a better woman than I'll ever be, but I wanna see a woman scrap it out for a championship alongside men. Seems that no one can offer a good hypothesis as to why we don't.

Okay.....I see that Misti won the 2002 WMRC 650 Supersport Twins Championship. Congrats on that. So it IS possible for a woman to compete against men and win. Who's next?

[Kevin Kane]

You are right of course, it was a silly statement to make, I realise that racers come from all walks of life, some born into it and some just decide later thats what they want to do, I just cant believe that it would be imposible for a woman to be competitve in pro racing! I could be wrong and so far history proves that but I feel there must be more to it than just being the wrong sex!

Now Sir, we are on the same sheet of music. I want to know (like you) WHY they aren't competitive. I don't think it's physiology (although they are more "top heavy"). I wonder if it's a matter of desire and cultural grooming telling them that it's not ladylike to compete. And then you have normal rate of attrition in this sport due to injury and just .....life. I suppose cause we start with more men, more stick.

 

There have been women that have made it pretty far up--who was the German(?) girl that ended up with some kind of championship, Katia-something?

 

Of course we have had Misti doing well, and Jessica Z has been out there, but Misti regularly is 3 seconds a lap faster.

 

There are for sure fewer women that race than men, so pretty small pool to begin with. One could ask the same in car racing--any world champs there?

 

C

How many AMA wins does Misti have? Podiums, Top 5's? Top 10's? ....

Hey, I'm not ragging on her or anything, she's a better woman than I'll ever be, but I wanna see a woman scrap it out for a championship alongside men. Seems that no one can offer a good hypothesis as to why we don't.

Okay.....I see that Misti won the 2002 WMRC 650 Supersport Twins Championship. Congrats on that. So it IS possible for a woman to compete against men and win. Who's next?

 

...so where are we going with this thread exactly?

Up until recently, women basketball players couldn't dunk the ball...

 

I thought that this was a more fascinating topic when it focused on physical training techniques for cornering a motorcycle...but that's just me.

 

Kevin

[Cobie Fair]

Kevin is right, we got a little off topic here.

 

To get back on, here is what has helped me (very generally speaking). Good upper body strength to turn the bike, decent ab strength to handle moving around on the bike, good lower body to aid that also, and having the inner thighs in good shape for that too. Good flexibility makes it all easier.

 

I'd say almost as important (and more in some cases) is decent food and enough water and electrolytes. More students have had a tough time from being dehydrated than just about anything.

[acebobby]

I think that I need to work on flexibility more than anything else as sometimes moving about the bike feels a bit mechanical rather than smooth and flowing! Over the winter I plan to work on my endurance fitness, my flexibility and aim to reduce my body fat percentage as its been creeping up lately!

 

I agree with eating good food and keeping hydrated, another problem area for me is that I drink nowhere near enough water and probably drink way to much coffee, I remember when I did my level 1 we were encouraged to drink lots of water throughout the day and I felt great, this was at a rainy Rockingham so imagine the importance for you guys getting hydrated in the desert heat at some of the tracks you go to like Willow Springs and Las Vegas!

[Cobie Fair]

I think that I need to work on flexibility more than anything else as sometimes moving about the bike feels a bit mechanical rather than smooth and flowing! Over the winter I plan to work on my endurance fitness, my flexibility and aim to reduce my body fat percentage as its been creeping up lately!

 

I agree with eating good food and keeping hydrated, another problem area for me is that I drink nowhere near enough water and probably drink way to much coffee, I remember when I did my level 1 we were encouraged to drink lots of water throughout the day and I felt great, this was at a rainy Rockingham so imagine the importance for you guys getting hydrated in the desert heat at some of the tracks you go to like Willow Springs and Las Vegas!

 

Yeah, I think it's a huge issue, hydration. It's made more and more sense to me as I've learned more about it and tried it more. Here is one example: a few years ago I screwed up the lower disks in my back, got them way herniated, really was a mess. Did a few things that turned it all the way around, but finally realized that all the "bad days" pain wise, coincided with not enough water. Finally a doctor told my disks were dehydrated. Wow, that shook me. Back pain = dehydration. Don't think I would have made that connection on my own. So, 2-3 liters a day (minimum, that's just maintenance before any real exercise). It's made a huge difference. For sure there is more to it, but it was (and is) a real factor.

 

C

[acebobby]

Yeah 2-3 litres of water a day minimum just to maintain sounds like loads, and its not just the body that suffers dehydration, it gets the brain too, can slow down your decision making process which isn't a good thing on a motorcycle! Possibly one of the reasons alot of trackday crashes happen later in the afternoon.

[Cobie Fair]

Yeah 2-3 litres of water a day minimum just to maintain sounds like loads, and its not just the body that suffers dehydration, it gets the brain too, can slow down your decision making process which isn't a good thing on a motorcycle! Possibly one of the reasons alot of trackday crashes happen later in the afternoon.

 

I talked to an older woman recenlty (70's?) and she was telling me to hold the water in your mouth longer, helps hydrate the brain.

[Jaybird180]

Yeah 2-3 litres of water a day minimum just to maintain sounds like loads, and its not just the body that suffers dehydration, it gets the brain too, can slow down your decision making process which isn't a good thing on a motorcycle! Possibly one of the reasons alot of trackday crashes happen later in the afternoon.

 

I talked to an older woman recenlty (70's?) and she was telling me to hold the water in your mouth longer, helps hydrate the brain.

LOLOLOLOLOL

[sachak]

Hey guys, im new to the Forum

 

I just wanted to say that I am not pro racer ("Yet") and I just got my bike yesterday and took it for a ride for the first time, being my first time ever on a super bike I can tell you that you Definately need to be fit, as when I had finished riding my head was wet from sweat and im actually quit e fit guy, well built and average height, but one thing is for sure is that riding my R6 took it out of me big time and I know for a fact that if I had to do a 23 lap race id frikken die.

 

I play Tennis, I cycle from time to time, but seriously if your not fit you will probably do a lot worse than what you would if you were fit and in good shape, as it doesnt matter how good your technique is as you simply wont last the entire 23 laps, and if you do you certainly wont be performing as well as you did in the fist 8 laps or so.

 

Dont gun me down for what I just wrote its just what I have noticed from riding my bike, Cornering hard seriously takes it out of you.

 

When I fist got on and just rode normally for the first 30 mins or so I was cool, didnt even break a sweat, but soon as I started cornering the bike and going faster and faster around the corners, I started really feeling it.

 

So my opinion is that you definately 100% have to be fit to do well in a race, else you will just tire out and get worse and worse as the race progresses.

 

And with regards to the water thing, I got seriously dehydrated, water is definately Key here, you get drowsy when you get dehydrated and that leads to slow reaction time as stated above and it certainly wont help you either.

[Cobie Fair]

Sachak,

 

First thing, welcome to the forum!

 

I rember doing a race school a while back and having to put a few good laps together--I was whipped!

 

Best,

Cobie

[Hotfoot]

I agree that hydration is key - I think it is a much bigger factor than fitness. I have been to schools & track days when I was very fit, and others where I was very out of shape, after recovering from injury. When out of shape I didn't really get tired, but I did notice my lack of quad strength (I got really sore from moving side to side on the bike) and that my neck got sore from looking up and forward when low on the bike. So my opinion on this is that fitness ALWAYS helps you to feel better and have more stamina, but being rested, hydrated and relaxed on the bike makes more of a difference than overall muscle strength; even at my very best fitness level dehydration will wipe me out (and ruin my concentration) in three sessions. And I've seen plenty of guys that were in great shape shaking like a leaf at the end of a session, tension can exhaust anyone.

 

I can't resist jumping in on the discussion about female riders. Personally, I don't think body strength is as much of an issue as the social factors and the boldness (read: testosterone) factor. I'm a girl, Level 4 rider, relatively small. So here's my perspective - the sportbikes and most dirt bikes are tall and heavy for a girl, this made getting into the sport intitially a little tougher. Full leathers for ladies are hard to find, especially if knee sliders are required, this makes open track days tougher to get into initially. Social pressure is significant - I am a mom with a young child and most non-riders think it is crazy and/or irresponsible for me to own a bike and especially to ride on a racetrack. My family HATES it. Other social factors to consider? There's not as much incentive for a girl to start riding - a guy on a bike looks cool, maybe can pick up chicks, that's probably a good incentive to get a street bike at a young age (or maybe middle age, too!). It isn't quite the same for girls - generally, a girl would have to hop on the back or else look for the rare dude that would ride behind her! All of these things are improving all the time, of course... except for my family.

 

Another big factor is boldness. I am willing to ride fast, but I am almost never willing to fight another rider for my corner. I don't know if this is a social behavior (women are taught to be cooperative more than competitive) or a boldness/fear factor but it's a FACTOR, for sure - it's the primary reason I don't race. When I watch male riders I suspect that sometimes they "see red" and the desire to win overpowers almost all else; guys, is this what happens? In any case I see that my husband is willing to ride a lot closer to his limits than I am to mine, for sure in a head-to-head challenge he lays it all out. I am very competitive but I rarely throw caution to the wind.

 

As far as strength goes - well, I've never had any trouble steering my bike. Loading the sucker in the back of a pickup is a challenge, though.

 

Just my perspective, I'd love to hear what others have to say.

[Jaybird180]

As far as strength goes - well, I've never had any trouble steering my bike. Loading the sucker in the back of a pickup is a challenge, though.

I guess there's the definitive answer I was looking for (LOL)

[Thor]

I'm a big fan of hydration. I've read a lot about it and there is much disagreement. I teach MSF BRCs every weekend all summer in MN. It gets up to 90 plus degrees F with very high humidity.

 

I worked at a golfcourse as a kid and sat with a 20hp engine literally between my legs. It got amazingly hot and I was only one who could ride the maching all day. Everyone else would shut down and give up or suffer from heat related problems. When they found out that how I did it was to get to work a 1/2 hour early and hide 5 one gallon jugs of water in the woods, the club paid for fancy hidden water jugs for the crew.

 

When I teach, I tell the students to bring 5 liters of water and plan on drinking one liter at every break. My hope is that they'll drink half a liter. The students also watch me drink and fill a 2 liter CamelBak throughout the day.

 

If I see a student who refuses to drink water, I can tell you exactly which exercise on day 2 their mind and body will stop working correctly. If a student drinks alcohol the night before, I can tell them what will happen, how it will happen, and what they will be thinking at the time.

 

Other coaches mock me for telling adults what to bring for water, but more of my students pass, fewer, if any, drop out, and I don't have to deal with the mental and physical meltdown that leads to crashes in the more advanced skills.

 

I don't know exactly why it works, and I don't really care. I know it works and makes me more comfortable and helps my students perform better.

 

When I only teach the range and can't advise students what to bring, I suffer for it because they don't bring water or they don't bring enough. On day 2 it is like someone beat them with a stupid stick. Complete "helmet fires" and lost comprehension.

 

I also bring enough bananas for every student to have two. The problem is some people get an upset stomach from bananas, but the potassium seems to help (or maybe it is just having some food to eat.)

[Cobie Fair]

That was great to get that perspective on it, all the different things: fitness, hydration, female view, so thanks for that.

 

D

[acebobby]

As far as strength goes - well, I've never had any trouble steering my bike. Loading the sucker in the back of a pickup is a challenge, though.

I guess there's the definitive answer I was looking for (LOL)

 

Yeah same here!

[hubbard_28]

I don't know if hydration itself can be considered being "fit," but being able to tolerate a certain amount of dehydration would definitely fit this topic. It always makes me near violent when I see people running on treadmills or doing stair masters whilst sipping water.

I have bad knees from the military (be all you can be) and am cursed to running on treadmills, and 2-3 days a week on my days off, I run for an hour doing anywhere from 7-8 miles. I'm covered in sweat and dripping buckets, but the loss of fluids helps my body be able to cope with stress, and better compensate for dehydration, even if it's just in small doses. It falls under endurance.

If any of you are one of those people who don't allow your bodies to learn to manage moderate amounts of water loss, stop it. When I was doing a trackday in 112 degree weather early August in Phoenix, and all my friends were calling it a day after being in the heat for half a day, I was still able to throw in some (albeit slower) laps through the whole day.

[Jaybird180]

Your opinion is def. interesting...even if I disagree that one should condition him/ herself to tolerate mild dehydration. The Marines didn't teach me that way :-)

[hubbard_28]

During road marches etc, your body was definitely in a dehydrated state, regardless how much water you were drinking. That explains us being thirsty after prolonged exertion, and dark colored urine. I did 25 mile road marches with the 101st, and doing it in 10 hours placed a stress on the body that it couldn't correct without rest and rehydration. So much muscle is damaged during something like that, that it's not just the point of whether or not we were still urinating, but the body needing to repair muscle and dispose of the muscle waste, acids released by the muscle, and so forth, and this all requires hydration and time. When we did 12 mile road marches 1-2 times a week, our bodies became more able to dispose of waste, repair muscle, and rehydrate cells more easily over time.

When I was losing the abundance of water at the track, even though I drank 3-4 gallons of water, my cells were dehydrating, blood thickening, and all the "garbage" was floating around my blood system, making it harder for my body to function properly. During training, my body was able to "practice" for times like that, and I was able to endure it for longer periods than my friends who don't work out either at all, or at the level I do.

I know they had forced water drinking sessions and canteen checks, but without rest and replacement of electrolytes and more fluid, you were dehydrated.

I see it all the time at work.

[Cobie Fair]

Hubbard 28--so, I'm not quite sure of your point? Train but rehydrate? Make sure you get electrolytes?

 

C

[hubbard_28]

Hubbard 28--so, I'm not quite sure of your point? Train but rehydrate? Make sure you get electrolytes?

 

C

No. I'm merely stating that hydration itself isn't considered fitness. We're talking about fitness, and hydration in itself doesn't have anything to do with that. Training the body to manage itself in times of stress is a fitness point. The body actually tolerates prolonged activity if it is habitually placed under duress. I was somewhat on a soapbox when I mentioned the treadmill walking, water drinking folk. And yes, electrolytes for the time we spend on the track. You won't find me at a trackday without heavily salted peanuts. Sodium is another key component to hydration.

[hubbard_28]

Hubbard 28--so, I'm not quite sure of your point? Train but rehydrate? Make sure you get electrolytes?

 

C

No. I'm merely stating that hydration itself isn't considered fitness. We're talking about fitness, and hydration in itself doesn't have anything to do with that. Training the body to manage itself in times of stress is a fitness point. The body actually tolerates prolonged activity if it is habitually placed under duress. I was somewhat on a soapbox when I mentioned the treadmill walking, water drinking folk. And yes, electrolytes for the time we spend on the track. You won't find me at a trackday without heavily salted peanuts. Sodium is another key component to hydration.

[Cobie Fair]

Hubbard 28--so, I'm not quite sure of your point? Train but rehydrate? Make sure you get electrolytes?

 

C

No. I'm merely stating that hydration itself isn't considered fitness. We're talking about fitness, and hydration in itself doesn't have anything to do with that. Training the body to manage itself in times of stress is a fitness point. The body actually tolerates prolonged activity if it is habitually placed under duress. I was somewhat on a soapbox when I mentioned the treadmill walking, water drinking folk. And yes, electrolytes for the time we spend on the track. You won't find me at a trackday without heavily salted peanuts. Sodium is another key component to hydration.

 

Got it and that makes sense, a good distinction between the two.

 

C